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Isiah Thomas Evaluation
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VDesai
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12/8/2004  2:51 PM
Posted by fishmike:

believe it or not, Damp could have been pretty good here, but that price was too high I agree.

There are some good young bigmen possibly available next offseason, and we always have $$$ if nothing else.

Damp's a good rebounder and is big, but I've never been that impressed with his offense or defense for that matter. Nazr's done a great job on the boards and is a hard worker...I don't think we lost out on much by missing on Damp. In fact what we lost out on was having to give a long term contract to a career underachiever who would've been on the wrong side of 30...
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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12/8/2004  3:13 PM
This is a pretty stupid thread and sometimes its best to just leave your overreactions in your head, rather than vomit it out and public and embarass yourself.
absolutley freakin classic... pretty much made my day.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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12/8/2004  3:42 PM
Posted by fishmike:
This is a pretty stupid thread and sometimes its best to just leave your overreactions in your head, rather than vomit it out and public and embarass yourself.
absolutley freakin classic... pretty much made my day.
Yeah, I gotta admit that was a good line!
Knickss208
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12/8/2004  3:54 PM
Posted by simrud:

What has he done so far that makes him so good????

The Marbury trade has been on the table, Layden came up with it. Iseah just caved in on all of the Suns demands. So we gave up a lot of expiring contracts, a multitude of draft picks, young prospects, while takin on enermosu money, and Marbury, a proven looser with a captial L.

Traded Spoon for Mooch, same crap, Mooch is just as bad if not worse.

Traded for TT. Horrible, horrible trade. Now we are stuck with 2 guys in the startin linepu who can't play D, Mohammed and TT. At least Van Horn got rebounds.

Waived Anderson. Don't really care, I hate Anderson, but at this point you migh at least keep him around for an expiring deal at some point. Why waive anybody. Just because refuses to lick Iseahs testicles?

Gettin Craw, Craw is a chucker, doesn't play andy D, and is undersized, We now have him for 7 years. Awesome. I just love it.

Now we are talkin about gettin Carter while takin on even more salary, and giving up whatever is left of our assets and draft picks.
This team is headed to hell if anywhere.

Iseah Thomas, Scott Layden, both horrible GM's. The era of mismanagement continues...


Im sorry but I guess you dont see the money he saved us with those trades. Yes we have a payroll at nearly the same amount with Layden, but instead of Houston being our only all star calliber player we have three. Weatherspoon had a huge contract with us so getting moochie was a way to save money for us Isaih never had any attention of really playing him. Van Horn lacked the heart NY desires and had a larger contract than TT, and I think TT was worth the risk it just doesnt seem to have panned out. Then getting rid of Eisley, Ward, Harrington and Frank Williams gets rid of even more players with sizeable contracts that do not match up to their playing ability. In return we have great players that I am more than happy to see on the floor as opposed to two years ago. Isaih is doing a great job and you are crazy for not realizing the magic he just pulled off. The trades he made were unbelieveable and difficult to do. Especially the Weatherspoon trade!!!
playa2
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12/8/2004  6:21 PM
Why is this so hard to see, if ZEKE threw money at any young player he could sign him, what is he big freakin deal. Having an owner with big bucks don't make you a genius!
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
fishmike
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12/8/2004  7:18 PM
Posted by playa2:

Why is this so hard to see, if ZEKE threw money at any young player he could sign him, what is he big freakin deal. Having an owner with big bucks don't make you a genius!
It sure didnt help Layden
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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12/8/2004  9:40 PM
Posted by playa2:

Why is this so hard to see, if ZEKE threw money at any young player he could sign him, what is he big freakin deal. Having an owner with big bucks don't make you a genius!
You still have to spot talent. He found Ariza and Crawford. He felt Nazy could contribute much more than teams realized he could.
raven
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12/9/2004  9:36 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by playa2:

Why is this so hard to see, if ZEKE threw money at any young player he could sign him, what is he big freakin deal. Having an owner with big bucks don't make you a genius!
You still have to spot talent. He found Ariza and Crawford. He felt Nazy could contribute much more than teams realized he could.

Don't loose your time arguing with him bonn, it's a waste of energy.

- are the rosters better ? yes, but he doesn't care.
- are we getting younger ? yes, but IT is a bad GM
- are we getting more atheltic ? yes, but dolan has money so it's easy
- do the rookies play ? yes, but chaney would've done better (as we saw it last year)
- are we winning more ? absolutely more than last year at the same date, but statistics of this kind means nothing

As vdesai said :
This is a pretty stupid thread and sometimes its best to just leave your overreactions in your head, rather than vomit it out and public and embarass yourself.

Nothing more to add, except that i wish negative fans could at least wait till the end of the season to say "i told you so"...
Bonn1997
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12/9/2004  9:42 AM
Posted by raven:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by playa2:

Why is this so hard to see, if ZEKE threw money at any young player he could sign him, what is he big freakin deal. Having an owner with big bucks don't make you a genius!
You still have to spot talent. He found Ariza and Crawford. He felt Nazy could contribute much more than teams realized he could.

Don't loose your time arguing with him bonn, it's a waste of energy.

- are the rosters better ? yes, but he doesn't care.
- are we getting younger ? yes, but IT is a bad GM
- are we getting more atheltic ? yes, but dolan has money so it's easy
- do the rookies play ? yes, but chaney would've done better (as we saw it last year)
- are we winning more ? absolutely more than last year at the same date, but statistics of this kind means nothing

As vdesai said :
This is a pretty stupid thread and sometimes its best to just leave your overreactions in your head, rather than vomit it out and public and embarass yourself.

Nothing more to add, except that i wish negative fans could at least wait till the end of the season to say "i told you so"...
I think that vomit quote is gonna get a lot of usage on this board
Nalod
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12/9/2004  10:02 AM
"SNIT VOMIT"
playa2
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12/9/2004  10:52 AM
Posted by raven:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by playa2:

Why is this so hard to see, if ZEKE threw money at any young player he could sign him, what is he big freakin deal. Having an owner with big bucks don't make you a genius!
You still have to spot talent. He found Ariza and Crawford. He felt Nazy could contribute much more than teams realized he could.

Don't loose your time arguing with him bonn, it's a waste of energy.

- are the rosters better ? yes, but he doesn't care.
- are we getting younger ? yes, but IT is a bad GM
- are we getting more atheltic ? yes, but dolan has money so it's easy
- do the rookies play ? yes, but chaney would've done better (as we saw it last year)
- are we winning more ? absolutely more than last year at the same date, but statistics of this kind means nothing

#1 Roster is more entertaining for fans when they chose to play hard.

#2 Yes we are younger with less experience

#3 Ariza and Crawford makes us more athletic, but these guys are so thin they are easily used in post ups.

#4 Yes rookies play , they actually challenge the starters who(TT) who don't come to play every night.

Are we winning more? we better, we have the highest payroll in the freakin NBA.

I acknowledge we have a team that on good days are a lil fun to watch, but we have a coach who gives us no edge in games, even though he's a (HOF coach). He's a puppet until Zeke uses up his(HOF) credentials and drops him like it's hot.

Plz Houston come back and bring some accountabilty in the shooting catergory. Chucking up shots is easy JC, THEY ARE BOUND TO GO IN.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
fishmike
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12/9/2004  11:06 AM
playa, you are right but whats your suggestion? You said build with bigs first, but what were available? Sheed? Rahim? Are they a better start to rebuilding a roster than the guys Isiah has added? The only position Isiah hasnt upgraded is SF, where KVH is a far more productive player. However the upgrade in PG, C and bench is paramount. Even PF where moving Spoon and adding Nazr means KT stays at PF and Sweetney gets time.

Is this the amount of time a new GM gets? 11 months? Our payroll was tops when Layden left. No doutb Isiah didnt improve that but we are a year away from being pretty flexible again.

What other coach was available? Fratello? Please dont tell me after 3 years of dogging JVG and his style you wanted the Czar. Who next?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
playa2
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12/9/2004  11:22 AM
Posted by fishmike:

playa, you are right but whats your suggestion? You said build with bigs first, but what were available? Sheed? Rahim? Are they a better start to rebuilding a roster than the guys Isiah has added? The only position Isiah hasnt upgraded is SF, where KVH is a far more productive player. However the upgrade in PG, C and bench is paramount. Even PF where moving Spoon and adding Nazr means KT stays at PF and Sweetney gets time.

Is this the amount of time a new GM gets? 11 months? Our payroll was tops when Layden left. No doutb Isiah didnt improve that but we are a year away from being pretty flexible again.

What other coach was available? Fratello? Please dont tell me after 3 years of dogging JVG and his style you wanted the Czar. Who next?


One thing Spoon brought was girth, Sweetney is the only other player we have with some strength down low when it comes to rebounds. This team is so freakin thin is ashame. Zeke wants to run and I agree but we need some guys with strength too.

Why couldn't we picked up a coach like Musselman? Why because Zeke wasn't gonna hire some one who's his own man he needed a yes man, just like dolan did with the announcers.

We needed to start with defensive players, but it wasn't gonna sell tickets at MSG. We are doomed man for yrs to come, If I had the answer for Zeke maybe I would be the gm and not him .
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
fishmike
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12/9/2004  12:50 PM
I have to admit, I think I would have done exactly what Zeke did. Its hard to argue with the logic. Anyone can see building this team is going to take time, but patience isnt something in abundance in this town and organization. So what Zeke did was get a couple of guys that will make the team fun to watch, generate buzz, sell tickets, etc. And what he did by doing so was buy himself time to operate. Its alot easier to be patient with draft picks and young players when management is happy with team $$$

Maybe thats the kool-aid talking but somehow I dont think the value of size and defense is lost on Isiah.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
playa2
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12/9/2004  1:00 PM
Posted by fishmike:

I have to admit, I think I would have done exactly what Zeke did. Its hard to argue with the logic. Anyone can see building this team is going to take time, but patience isnt something in abundance in this town and organization. So what Zeke did was get a couple of guys that will make the team fun to watch, generate buzz, sell tickets, etc. And what he did by doing so was buy himself time to operate. Its alot easier to be patient with draft picks and young players when management is happy with team $$$

Maybe thats the kool-aid talking but somehow I dont think the value of size and defense is lost on Isiah.


OK fish, this is why my expecatations are so low at this time.
Do I love the knicks yes, do I drink da Koolaid Hell no.

One day I want to be like Phoenix or the Wizards, BUT THOSE TEAMS HAD TO STINK A LITTLE AND MISS THE PLAYOFFS to have a chance at great picks in draft.

Ok Dolan want's playoffs every yr= we are doomed for a while.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
fishmike
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12/9/2004  1:07 PM
why did they have to stink? All the Knicks need to do from now on is draft well and not add anymore lousy max players. No Carters or Roses. Isiah has always drafted well and picked good young players. Why should we be any different? If it wasnt for Layden we would have 2-3 other guys like Ariza and Sweetney. Instead he opted to trade picks and go with guys like Eisley, Anderson, Stricktland, Mark Jackson, Harrington, Spoon.

Sorry, but Isiah isnt getting guys like that.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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12/9/2004  1:10 PM
the worst guy he went out and got was Baker and I'm convinced it had part to do with making Craford's agent happy. Also it was a two year deal for modest money. Not the 5 year deal Spoon got.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
playa2
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12/9/2004  1:19 PM
Posted by fishmike:

why did they have to stink? All the Knicks need to do from now on is draft well and not add anymore lousy max players. No Carters or Roses. Isiah has always drafted well and picked good young players. Why should we be any different? If it wasnt for Layden we would have 2-3 other guys like Ariza and Sweetney. Instead he opted to trade picks and go with guys like Eisley, Anderson, Stricktland, Mark Jackson, Harrington, Spoon.

Sorry, but Isiah isnt getting guys like that.

Draft well? We must Make the playoffs? Where would we be picking come draft time. 20th

Zeke would have to do another Ariza pick to convince me of his draft prowess.

Spurs would have never landed Duncan if they didn't miss the playoffs.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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