BlueKnickers wrote:There are a number of things I like about Jalen Brunson, but I'm not sure he's playable the way he struggles to bring the ball upcourt under pressure.

Imagine 3 or 4 years from now and making what $60M ish?

LivingLegend wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:There are a number of things I like about Jalen Brunson, but I'm not sure he's playable the way he struggles to bring the ball upcourt under pressure.

Imagine 3 or 4 years from now and making what $60M ish?

While I assume some people got it as a Kolek joke, you're not wrong either.

I have brought it up before that Brunson's small body bully ball style may not age well. The wear on his body and the ability to make the constant sharp cuts required for him to create space may degrade significantly with time. He is already coming up lame with ankle injuries multiple times every season so far. That's a warning sign, because in 2 years he may not bounce back from those strains nearly as well.

So, yeah, paying mega money to him in several years is not necessarily the way to go.

One of the reasons I don't like his father on the staff is the nepotism may blind the FO from being pragmatic in the future.

Rookie wrote:We just need a plan B when the three isn’t going in, which is every game lately. We are not a good 3pt shooting team, very hot and cold. We go cold when we are on the road for consecutive games and don’t practice and then slowly get hot when we are back in NY for stretches. Hopefully this evens out by the playoffs.

If we winning the games, perhaps "Plan B is working"?
I mean any NBA that gets hot from the outside can beat any one at any time.
That we are finding ways to come back dictates contingency success at some level.
There are so many positives I think we fans take for greanted perhaps given the great expectations.
Gone are the days of playing over our heads. WOnderful suprises. Hating on ESPN for not giving us respect. Fact is they do now. We on National games a lot. ESPN used so slam us when we got blown out on TV. What else is there to talk about? For goodness sake Reggie and Doris are not on the floor, why blame them?
Facts are we the fans are pretty darn critical of knicks but when others do it its HATE? LOL.....
Its all part of how all this works year after year.

Nalod wrote:

Rookie wrote:We just need a plan B when the three isn’t going in, which is every game lately. We are not a good 3pt shooting team, very hot and cold. We go cold when we are on the road for consecutive games and don’t practice and then slowly get hot when we are back in NY for stretches. Hopefully this evens out by the playoffs.

If we winning the games, perhaps "Plan B is working"?
I mean any NBA that gets hot from the outside can beat any one at any time.
That we are finding ways to come back dictates contingency success at some level.
There are so many positives I think we fans take for greanted perhaps given the great expectations.
Gone are the days of playing over our heads. WOnderful suprises. Hating on ESPN for not giving us respect. Fact is they do now. We on National games a lot. ESPN used so slam us when we got blown out on TV. What else is there to talk about? For goodness sake Reggie and Doris are not on the floor, why blame them?
Facts are we the fans are pretty darn critical of knicks but when others do it its HATE? LOL.....
Its all part of how all this works year after year.

Why do so many of your posts feel like you're trying to chaperone the board?

How about you just state your own damn opinion instead of telling us how we should feel and behave.

It appears your only strong opinions are about other peoples opinions.

BlueKnickers wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Rookie wrote:We just need a plan B when the three isn’t going in, which is every game lately. We are not a good 3pt shooting team, very hot and cold. We go cold when we are on the road for consecutive games and don’t practice and then slowly get hot when we are back in NY for stretches. Hopefully this evens out by the playoffs.

If we winning the games, perhaps "Plan B is working"?
I mean any NBA that gets hot from the outside can beat any one at any time.
That we are finding ways to come back dictates contingency success at some level.
There are so many positives I think we fans take for greanted perhaps given the great expectations.
Gone are the days of playing over our heads. WOnderful suprises. Hating on ESPN for not giving us respect. Fact is they do now. We on National games a lot. ESPN used so slam us when we got blown out on TV. What else is there to talk about? For goodness sake Reggie and Doris are not on the floor, why blame them?
Facts are we the fans are pretty darn critical of knicks but when others do it its HATE? LOL.....
Its all part of how all this works year after year.

Why do so many of your posts feel like you're trying to chaperone the board?

How about you just state your own damn opinion instead of telling us how we should feel and behave.

It appears your only strong opinions are about other peoples opinions.

Your doing exactly as you accuse me of.

But perhaps I struck a nerve? Grow a pair and ignore it.
Chaperone? THats actually a fairly polite way of saying something.
But if I annoy you and you are compelled to bring it up, well so are some points of view with me. So hear we are not talking about hoop.
Talking about my attitude about others attitude.
Welcome to the adult room of chaperones. You are officially one of us.
I annoy you, PHilc Annoys me. We all part of the family.

I see your kind of new here with a nice post count for a newbie.
I've been. here a long time in this role of being the unofficial fact checker and in some small way keeping some level of bull**** off the forums. We sort of self monitor ourselves. In 20 years I no doubt get under folks skin with calling out things but in the end maybe it contributes to the longevity and for the most part don't get into personalities over content. If we are here to discuss things and accuracy is not a factor how are we to resepect the convo?

In a world where blogs are taken as media and opinion is seen as facts then things go astray.
Not here. Martin does a really good job keeping us in check. Even myself from time to time. Nalod is not without faults.

We had a poster full of himself at the start of teh seaosn when Josh was shooting badly "by january he'll be having surgery on the finger and be out".......
Meanwhile he is literally having his best season regarding shooting percentage. It was said with blind ignorance with arrogance. Some guys can't say "Wow, did not see this coming and my negative perpensity lead me to that place! So happy to see him shooting this way". Some here rather be right then happy.

Im trying this season to lend a hand saying there is much to be pleased about but I get we are a damaged group and our expectations are high.

Me? Im enjoying our relevence one season at a time as long as the window is open. The results are yet to be determined.

No worries here. I don't pay attention to who writes who. I just respond to posts, not personalities.
But you have caught my attention.

BlueKnickers wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:There are a number of things I like about Jalen Brunson, but I'm not sure he's playable the way he struggles to bring the ball upcourt under pressure.

Imagine 3 or 4 years from now and making what $60M ish?

While I assume some people got it as a Kolek joke, you're not wrong either.

I have brought it up before that Brunson's small body bully ball style may not age well. The wear on his body and the ability to make the constant sharp cuts required for him to create space may degrade significantly with time. He is already coming up lame with ankle injuries multiple times every season so far. That's a warning sign, because in 2 years he may not bounce back from those strains nearly as well.

So, yeah, paying mega money to him in several years is not necessarily the way to go.

One of the reasons I don't like his father on the staff is the nepotism may blind the FO from being pragmatic in the future.

Didn't get the Kolek reference -- don't recall that line of commentary.

martin wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:There are a number of things I like about Jalen Brunson, but I'm not sure he's playable the way he struggles to bring the ball upcourt under pressure.

Imagine 3 or 4 years from now and making what $60M ish?

While I assume some people got it as a Kolek joke, you're not wrong either.

I have brought it up before that Brunson's small body bully ball style may not age well. The wear on his body and the ability to make the constant sharp cuts required for him to create space may degrade significantly with time. He is already coming up lame with ankle injuries multiple times every season so far. That's a warning sign, because in 2 years he may not bounce back from those strains nearly as well.

So, yeah, paying mega money to him in several years is not necessarily the way to go.

One of the reasons I don't like his father on the staff is the nepotism may blind the FO from being pragmatic in the future.

Brunson’s game is built on fundamentals with strength not pure athleticism. He should age no more or less than someone like Curry.

TBH, I do not understand how Curry's game ages is at all comparable to how Brunson's game will age.

Curry had weak ankles as a young player and he strengthened them.

Brunson's ankles get busted up all the time because he's forces himself into heavy traffic at the rim with way more opportunities to land wrong and sprain his ankles. Then he has to rehab his ankle injuries while playing a style of game that produces the most amount of wear on the lower extremities.

Curry is one of the best off the ball runners in the game, the opposite of Brunson. That he also is a maestro with the ball is true, but the way he moves on the court is with a fractional amount of the kinds of hard cuts that Brunson executes almost every time he holds the ball.

Brunson's strength won't matter if he breaks down and is unable to make the guick changes of direction his whole game is predicated on.

Both of their games contain elite fundamentals that drive what they do, but Brunson's game is so dependent on chaining together a quick sequence of changes of direction that even a small percentage decline in his reaction times could shut down his ability to create space for himself. Brunson gets off shots just beyond the fingertips of defenders after he executes his get free moves.

Any decline at all and the advantages his moves produces could dissipate. Curry's wizardry with his handle, passing and shooting do not depend on much more than precise split second decision making compared to the kinds of gyrations Brunson puts himself through.

Anyway, it's only a speculation that Brunson's game may not age well. Any of us could be right about this. But I would not spend a super max on him at this point, because I unfortunately believe his greatness as an offensive player does not always translate into being the centerpiece of a great team.

The classic issue with Brunson is his high usage rate can come at the expense of his teammates involvement and he has shown himself to sometimes be self-aware about this and at other times fairly clueless about how to get his teammates into a flow state. That's what a superstar does.

I no longer consider Brunson a superstar, just a star player and a ridiculously fun player to watch on an individual basis. I'm just not convinced he will achieve any greatness as a team basketball player in the NBA. Jalen is a clutch guy and has bailed the team out so many times, but any decline at all and he may no longer be able to produce those kinds of heroics. If that happens, he'd actually be an albatross contract and impossible to justify being the centerpiece of the team.

ramtour420 wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

martin wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:There are a number of things I like about Jalen Brunson, but I'm not sure he's playable the way he struggles to bring the ball upcourt under pressure.

Imagine 3 or 4 years from now and making what $60M ish?

While I assume some people got it as a Kolek joke, you're not wrong either.

I have brought it up before that Brunson's small body bully ball style may not age well. The wear on his body and the ability to make the constant sharp cuts required for him to create space may degrade significantly with time. He is already coming up lame with ankle injuries multiple times every season so far. That's a warning sign, because in 2 years he may not bounce back from those strains nearly as well.

So, yeah, paying mega money to him in several years is not necessarily the way to go.

One of the reasons I don't like his father on the staff is the nepotism may blind the FO from being pragmatic in the future.

Brunson’s game is built on fundamentals with strength not pure athleticism. He should age no more or less than someone like Curry.

TBH, I do not understand how Curry's game ages is at all comparable to how Brunson's game will age.

Curry had weak ankles as a young player and he strengthened them.

Brunson's ankles get busted up all the time because he's forces himself into heavy traffic at the rim with way more opportunities to land wrong and sprain his ankles. Then he has to rehab his ankle injuries while playing a style of game that produces the most amount of wear on the lower extremities.

Curry is one of the best off the ball runners in the game, the opposite of Brunson. That he also is a maestro with the ball is true, but the way he moves on the court is with a fractional amount of the kinds of hard cuts that Brunson executes almost every time he holds the ball.

Brunson's strength won't matter if he breaks down and is unable to make the guick changes of direction his whole game is predicated on.

Both of their games contain elite fundamentals that drive what they do, but Brunson's game is so dependent on chaining together a quick sequence of changes of direction that even a small percentage decline in his reaction times could shut down his ability to create space for himself. Brunson gets off shots just beyond the fingertips of defenders after he executes his get free moves.

Any decline at all and the advantages his moves produces could dissipate. Curry's wizardry with his handle, passing and shooting do not depend on much more than precise split second decision making compared to the kinds of gyrations Brunson puts himself through.

Anyway, it's only a speculation that Brunson's game may not age well. Any of us could be right about this. But I would not spend a super max on him at this point, because I unfortunately believe his greatness as an offensive player does not always translate into being the centerpiece of a great team.

The classic issue with Brunson is his high usage rate can come at the expense of his teammates involvement and he has shown himself to sometimes be self-aware about this and at other times fairly clueless about how to get his teammates into a flow state. That's what a superstar does.

I no longer consider Brunson a superstar, just a star player and a ridiculously fun player to watch on an individual basis. I'm just not convinced he will achieve any greatness as a team basketball player in the NBA. Jalen is a clutch guy and has bailed the team out so many times, but any decline at all and he may no longer be able to produce those kinds of heroics. If that happens, he'd actually be an albatross contract and impossible to justify being the centerpiece of the team.

So, you are basically saying that Brunson is DeRozan?

[chuckle]

Well, if you're going there, Brunson's the better 3 point shooter and DeMar is a better rebounder, but statistically-speaking they are otherwise quite similar. DeRozan has been one of the top clutch players during his career as well.

The big difference then is Brunson's usage rate is about 50% higher being the primary ballhandler. DeMar has a handle of his own, but he is primarily a SG.

Usage rate becomes a critical issue when an offense is centered around a player who is a shoot-first PG. The odds of winning a championship are lower than rosters constructed around pass-first PGs..

Allen Iverson was a high usage shoot-first PG who averaged similar assist numbers as Brunson. He even made it to the finals once. It's not impossible to win with that kind of PG, but historically most championship teams are run by pass-first PGs even if they are hybrids like Steph or Magic who could rack up the points themselves.