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martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I'd say he wasn't doing much thinking at all. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not feeling this trade.

Did you like the Jalen Brunson acquisition?

Leon is not thinking about DDV or much of the past. He is thinking ahead. Its not about KAT losing his mom and getting hit hard by covid.
Its not about Jimmy Butler slamming the Minny yoot and an young KAT not down with the Thibian way.
One might assume KAT and his CAA agent had lots of convo's about playing for Thibs again and as a more mature man is he down with that? Pressure of NYC, being older, being back home, etc.

Players evolve on and off the court. A soft player can harden. An oft injured player can heal and also play smarter with less impact. Etc.....
Thats what Leon thinks about. He raised the ceiling for this team with this trade. It might not execute, but its not like we looking to repeat a chip.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

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you put this in the KAT thread? This team has Warriors offense vibes. Josh is our Draymond and even Josh gets 40% from the corner for his career.

IDK why we would trade Mitch tho

The weird part: the Knicks FO wanted to move Mitch/Randle to Minny, not DDV.

I don’t what to make of that.

Cause the numbers work without un****ing the Partizan signing of Daquan Jeffries.

No I meant from a roster construction standpoint.

Knicks would rather move their only C after KAT before a guard where they had tons of overlap.

That’s odd?

My take is that it is just math. Randle + Robinson + Achiuwa fits is $50k over KAT's contract. Achiuwa's contract seems carefully constructed to make the math work on December 15.

The pre-training camp trade barely works if they get the Charlotte sign and trades to align. They still don't have the numbers down and may need to trade Mitch anyway to get the numbers to work. That explains the fingers crossed in Mitch's feeds.

Makes sense.

NOP has a ****ton of TPE’s, something to watch. Maybe NOP wants Nick Richard’s and they get looped in.

I would not be surprised if Mitch, Deuce go out and a wing and someone makes it to Knicks.

I mean, to get close to the Robinson contract, they only have like 5 outgoing salaries that are tradeable. Jones $12.9m, Murphy $5m, Hawkings $4.7m, Missi $3m and Robinson-Earl $2m

True.

But if CHO and NOP both get looped into the KAT trade, things are more flexible and possible? Maybe. It's already complicated so maybe not.

My thought process: why would Leon want to include Mitch instead of DDV? Salary fit for trade? YES. But why STILL does he want to trade Mitch?

My guess: Knicks are going in on all of the things they want while they can. They want to get as many of those core type pieces in place as early as they can or when they can as soon as possible. This is their time.

So, what is their most valued role on team? Wing defender who is a spacer, guys who surround their prizes of Brunson and KAT. Is Deuce a wing? He can do 1-3. Mikal can already do 1-3. OG is a 2-5 guy. Hart is a 1-4 guy? Feel like their Dadiet pick makes sense from a wing perspective.

What long term value is Mitch to the team if they do not know if he can play for 20-40 games a year. It's hard to have to plan and then not plan for that every season. If Mitch was less injury prone, I think they keep him. He is not. They can't be in a position to have Mitch healthy from Oct-March and then something happen. That is a death trap. Better to go the route of the certainty of the wing defender and scrap for backup C's later or next year. Why next year? Steven Adams. Brook Lopez. Drummond. Dwight Powell. Whole crap load of the older, secondary guys who could play for a ring: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2025/position/c/type/ufa/sort/contract_value. Knicks can have like 3 of them on the vet min next year?

They need to strike while the iron is hot. They will trade Mitch and probably Deuce for another bigger wing cause they need to use all outgoing assets to get a decent wing as aprons permit. From NOP, who have too many. Trey, Herb, BI, Zion at PF. If Mitch is healthy (and Knicks still intended to move him), would Deuce and Mitch make sense on that team with all the extra wings? Yes. Deuce is a nice long term solution after McCullom and next to DeJounte taking the tougher defensive matchup at 1 or 2? Only if they like Mitch enough.

MAYBE that's why we see the Trey Murphy articles. That's the target but how does Leon get him? Fallback to Herb Jones?

Perhaps Leon is now thing about Trey?

Spit balling.

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Panos wrote:Can we have Deuce and Trey on the same team?
Anyone in the league named Ace?

That's OG's nickname for the braces and pads he's going to wear throughout the season.

martin wrote:EwingsGlass, I am responding to your post but from the Mitch Bomb thread, hope you don't mind. This is what I think Leon is thinking about next.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/benritholtznba/status/1840832481009762705

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/krispursiainen/status/1840782714938532087

you put this in the KAT thread? This team has Warriors offense vibes. Josh is our Draymond and even Josh gets 40% from the corner for his career.

IDK why we would trade Mitch tho

The weird part: the Knicks FO wanted to move Mitch/Randle to Minny, not DDV.

I don’t what to make of that.

Cause the numbers work without un****ing the Partizan signing of Daquan Jeffries.

No I meant from a roster construction standpoint.

Knicks would rather move their only C after KAT before a guard where they had tons of overlap.

That’s odd?

My take is that it is just math. Randle + Robinson + Achiuwa fits is $50k over KAT's contract. Achiuwa's contract seems carefully constructed to make the math work on December 15.

The pre-training camp trade barely works if they get the Charlotte sign and trades to align. They still don't have the numbers down and may need to trade Mitch anyway to get the numbers to work. That explains the fingers crossed in Mitch's feeds.

Makes sense.

NOP has a ****ton of TPE’s, something to watch. Maybe NOP wants Nick Richard’s and they get looped in.

I would not be surprised if Mitch, Deuce go out and a wing and someone makes it to Knicks.

I mean, to get close to the Robinson contract, they only have like 5 outgoing salaries that are tradeable. Jones $12.9m, Murphy $5m, Hawkings $4.7m, Missi $3m and Robinson-Earl $2m

True.

But if CHO and NOP both get looped into the KAT trade, things are more flexible and possible? Maybe. It's already complicated so maybe not.

My thought process: why would Leon want to include Mitch instead of DDV? Salary fit for trade? YES. But why STILL does he want to trade Mitch?

My guess: Knicks are going in on all of the things they want while they can. They want to get as many of those core type pieces in place as early as they can or when they can as soon as possible. This is their time.

So, what is their most valued role on team? Wing defender who is a spacer, guys who surround their prizes of Brunson and KAT. Is Deuce a wing? He can do 1-3. Mikal can already do 1-3. OG is a 2-5 guy. Hart is a 1-4 guy? Feel like their Dadiet pick makes sense from a wing perspective.

What long term value is Mitch to the team if they do not know if he can play for 20-40 games a year. It's hard to have to plan and then not plan for that every season. If Mitch was less injury prone, I think they keep him. He is not. They can't be in a position to have Mitch healthy from Oct-March and then something happen. That is a death trap. Better to go the route of the certainty of the wing defender and scrap for backup C's later or next year. Why next year? Steven Adams. Brook Lopez. Drummond. Dwight Powell. Whole crap load of the older, secondary guys who could play for a ring: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2025/position/c/type/ufa/sort/contract_value. Knicks can have like 3 of them on the vet min next year?

They need to strike while the iron is hot. They will trade Mitch and probably Deuce for another bigger wing cause they need to use all outgoing assets to get a decent wing as aprons permit. From NOP, who have too many. Trey, Herb, BI, Zion at PF. If Mitch is healthy (and Knicks still intended to move him), would Deuce and Mitch make sense on that team with all the extra wings? Yes. Deuce is a nice long term solution after McCullom and next to DeJounte taking the tougher defensive matchup at 1 or 2? Only if they like Mitch enough.

MAYBE that's why we see the Trey Murphy articles. That's the target but how does Leon get him? Fallback to Herb Jones?

Perhaps Leon is now thing about Trey?

Spit balling.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/JakobaReynolds/status/1840357769892761882

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/JakobaReynolds/status/1840513161956348008

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1420593579328774146

Ok. So, putting aside the fact that Randle + Robinson + Achiuwa would equal KAT, why not make Achiuwa $8m so that Randle + DDV + Achiuwa = KAT? I don’t think the Knicks intended to trade DDV, but the trade came along and they pulled the trigger.

I do think they intended to trade Robinson. Not out of disrespect or anything else, but to build around Brunson, Mikal and OG and a motion offense, whether that is a 4-1 or a 5-0, you need to have a big that can move in or out of the paint and can pass well. Assume KAT was always the target for this. Randle was always the sacrificial lamb in a KAT chase. Then you need to include Robinson, Hart or DDV + filler like Achiuwa or these magical non-bird players.

After this non bird play, the Knicks must fill 2 roster spots to meet minimum requirements. Their options are to waive Shamet and convert two two-ways to rookie min 1.152m contracts or to trade a player to create breathing room. So, Hart, Robinson or Deuce are now on the block.

Out of the three, it’s Robinson. Mostly because there is a C shortage and he has the best return on value. And I think they are playing cat and mouse with NOP. Robinson is PERFECT for them. And they have exactly what we want back.

I think Robinson for Jones and Earl-Robinson works.

Trey Murphy is a near mathematical, unless they have some hidden contracts. I think you saw them extend Alvarado to make it clear he was off limits.

But why doesn’t Robinson fit? I don’t think it’s his game. The interest in Kessler defeats that, cause Kessler can’t shoot a lick either. I think it’s just math. Wrong end of a salary cap calculation.

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Ok. So, putting aside the fact that Randle + Robinson + Achiuwa would equal KAT, why not make Achiuwa $8m so that Randle + DDV + Achiuwa = KAT? I don’t think the Knicks intended to trade DDV, but the trade came along and they pulled the trigger.

I don't think you can sign and trade Precious and include in a trade like that in apron rules. 99% sure.

I think that was the December 15 play. I don’t think anyone expected this to come so soon.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Ok. So, putting aside the fact that Randle + Robinson + Achiuwa would equal KAT, why not make Achiuwa $8m so that Randle + DDV + Achiuwa = KAT? I don’t think the Knicks intended to trade DDV, but the trade came along and they pulled the trigger.

I don't think you can sign and trade Precious and include in a trade like that in apron rules. 99% sure.

I think that was the December 15 play. I don’t think anyone expected this to come so soon.

I can get behind that. Something popped at the ownership level for Minny and that valve was released to move KAT to get financial flexibility. One time offer and you have minutes to except type situation. Both teams pulled the trigger, for better or worse on both ends.

When both teams feel it, it's an adult trade?