Now that we have a solid base, any major trades is not needed, unless it’s for a generational talent. Otherwise just some minor tweeks to fill in the gaps.

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.

Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's

Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.

Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.

Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a **** season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.

For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.

Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.

For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.

I call bull****. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.

Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.

Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".

Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.

Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.

Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's

Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.

Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.

Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a **** season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.

For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.

Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.

For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.

I call bull****. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.

Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.

Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".

Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.

Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs

We are not doing what Miami is doing.

IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.

Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.

Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's

Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.

Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.

Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a **** season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.

For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.

Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.

For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.

I call bull****. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.

Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.

Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".

Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.

Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs

We are not doing what Miami is doing.

IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.

Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.

LOL

Good example of denying reality

Grimes injured his shoulder.
IQ started 21 games. Played 81.
His runner up 6th man award not due to his starts.
sims is 3rd string Center. Christmas Break? You mean allstar break?

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.

Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's

Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.

Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.

Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a **** season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.

For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.

Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.

For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.

I call bull****. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.

Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.

Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".

Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.

Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs

We are not doing what Miami is doing.

IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.

Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.

IQ and Grimes averaged 21 and 17 minutes per game respectively in 2021-22 season which increased to 27 and 29 with 21 & 66 starts in 2022-23. If you're not seeing that this is developing young guys, not sure what to say.

People here seem to be caught up in recency bias. IQ was ineffective against Cleveland then got hurt. Grimes shot was not fully there in the playoffs (keep in mind he was coming off a shoulder injury). They will be fine longer term. Meanwhile guys on Miami who could not find a shot during the regular season are now dropping things in like everyone on the team is a member of the "splash brothers" during the playoffs. Sometimes shooting comes in waves. You think Martin, Highsmith and Robinson will sustain hitting 3's at over a .400 clip? Last night the Heat were 8-32 from 3.

foosballnick wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.

Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's

Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.

Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.

Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a **** season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.

For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.

Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.

For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.

I call bull****. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.

Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.

Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".

Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.

Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs

We are not doing what Miami is doing.

IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.

Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.

IQ and Grimes averaged 21 and 17 minutes per game respectively in 2021-22 season which increased to 27 and 29 with 21 & 66 starts in 2022-23. If you're not seeing that this is developing young guys, not sure what to say.

People here seem to be caught up in recency bias. IQ was ineffective against Cleveland then got hurt. Grimes shot was not fully there in the playoffs (keep in mind he was coming off a shoulder injury). They will be fine longer term. Meanwhile guys on Miami who could not find a shot during the regular season are now dropping things in like everyone on the team is a member of the "splash brothers" during the playoffs. Sometimes shooting comes in waves. You think Martin, Highsmith and Robinson will sustain hitting 3's at over a .400 clip? Last night the Heat were 8-32 from 3.

For the series, Miami only shot marginally better than the Knicks did from 3. The difference was volume of shots (Miami took 515, NY 477), Turnovers (Miami had 58, NY 82) and free throw percentage (Miami shot 83% on 143 attempts, NY 74% on 168 attempts).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2023-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-heat-vs-knicks.html#all_other_scores

This series hinged on Miami executing better. It was a close series that was literally won on the fringes, because alot of the stats are very similiar and if you read them at face value, you would think NY could have won the series.

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.

Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's

Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.

Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.

Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a **** season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.

For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.

Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.

For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.

I call bull****. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.

Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.

Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".

Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.

Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs

We are not doing what Miami is doing.

IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.

Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.

LOL

Good example of denying reality

Grimes injured his shoulder.
IQ started 21 games. Played 81.
His runner up 6th man award not due to his starts.
sims is 3rd string Center. Christmas Break? You mean allstar break?

has Randle gotten better under Thibs or hasnt he? Are we watching?

Looking at his career stats, the one thing that stands out is Thibs gave him more mins than any of his other coaches. More mins means more attempts and more points. But he's always been a 20 and 10 guy and showed that when he went to the Pelicans.

What exactly did Randle improve? His second year with the knicks he shot very well from 3. This past season, he shot the same percentage from 3 that he did in NO. He averaged 21 in NO and 9 rebounds. With the knicks he's averaged around 20 and 10.

I will say one thing. As much as I talk about his bad body language, it has improved along with his emotions. But now we are looking at a team with up and down full court type players and Randle is still a half court, ISO heavy ball stopping forward like he's always been. I don't trust his passing as well. Sometimes they look great and other times it's deflating to see a bullet pass, then Randle's in their face saying, why didn't you catch that?

He has more room to improve and if he's on board with this improvement strategy, then he stays. But this the part knick fans are not privy to.

I understand we need upgrades to get to that ECF and Finals level but I think that only happens if/when we acquire that top level star or severely upgrade Randle or RJ and possibly Rob. Not sure we have enough talent or spacing with those 3 together to get to that next level.

joec32033 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.

Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's

Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.

Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.

Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a **** season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.

For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.

Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.

For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.

I call bull****. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.

Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.

Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".

Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.

Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs

We are not doing what Miami is doing.

IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.

Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.

IQ and Grimes averaged 21 and 17 minutes per game respectively in 2021-22 season which increased to 27 and 29 with 21 & 66 starts in 2022-23. If you're not seeing that this is developing young guys, not sure what to say.

People here seem to be caught up in recency bias. IQ was ineffective against Cleveland then got hurt. Grimes shot was not fully there in the playoffs (keep in mind he was coming off a shoulder injury). They will be fine longer term. Meanwhile guys on Miami who could not find a shot during the regular season are now dropping things in like everyone on the team is a member of the "splash brothers" during the playoffs. Sometimes shooting comes in waves. You think Martin, Highsmith and Robinson will sustain hitting 3's at over a .400 clip? Last night the Heat were 8-32 from 3.

For the series, Miami only shot marginally better than the Knicks did from 3. The difference was volume of shots (Miami took 515, NY 477), Turnovers (Miami had 58, NY 82) and free throw percentage (Miami shot 83% on 143 attempts, NY 74% on 168 attempts).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2023-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-heat-vs-knicks.html#all_other_scores

This series hinged on Miami executing better. It was a close series that was literally won on the fringes, because alot of the stats are very similiar and if you read them at face value, you would think NY could have won the series.

Angry me thinks that the timing of the fouls was a large component of the outcomes of those games. That turnover differential is obviously the largest component, and you wouldn't think it just looking at the number of fouls for each team, but it seemed like the fouls called on the Knicks resulted in turnovers and shots by their good free throw shooters and the fouls on the Heat were inconsequential (for the most part) or hacks on our bad shooters. Good teams don't give the refs the opportunity to change the outcome, but it seemed like there would be a foul called when the Knicks started to a make a run, stunting their momentum. I can't say that Miami didn't earn that series, we sure as hell didn't shoot well enough to win, but I thought the reffing was less even handed than it appears on paper.

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