LivingLegend wrote:

Chandler wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:While I’m at it what teams not wearing blue & orange could use a shot blocking defensive anchor with butter for fingers, zero offensive game and moves like he’s 45? Plus he’s likable

I don't think Mitchell has butter fingers at all. His first few years his hands were great. I think the issue is that they never ever throw it to him anymore even for lobs so he's caught by surprise.

Come on Chandler - you can’t seriously believe Mitch has good hands.

He literally fumbles 50% of the balls thrown to him - add in fact he can’t score outside 1” or do anything outside of hand the ball,off on the perimeter and you have a legit NON option on offense.

I seriously think he at least had great hands. He used to catch everything lobbed at him. He was snagging rebounds and getting balls off floor

this past year, I'll grant, was different. Either it is an anticipation thing, or maybe he needs some Lasik surgery.

martin wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

martin wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:I would think at this point the notion of emptying the cupboard for a “star” would have faded. So you trade everyone and everything except Brunson for Emblid or whomever - does a team of Brunson, Emblid or whomever plus I don’t know - McBride,I hart, and a bunch of 10 day contracts get us further? Just seems ridiculous to me. And tell me what assets we get to keep in such a trade without daydreaming.

Right. That's why I think the Knicks will most likely make trades around the edges for the next year or so unless something utterly wild happens and becomes available

Knicks just had a huge internal development year that turned out well (especially and obviously with the addition of Brunson). Wouldn't be surprised of more of the same.

No need to go back to the quick fix philosophy which destroyed us for decades.

Yessir

I think they will not chase someone, but they could be opportunistic. SO if some star starts grumbling they at least have the asserts to play the game, and they can play from strength because staying the course w incremental adds and development is a serious path too (see Exhibit Nuggets)

Chandler wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

Chandler wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:While I’m at it what teams not wearing blue & orange could use a shot blocking defensive anchor with butter for fingers, zero offensive game and moves like he’s 45? Plus he’s likable

I don't think Mitchell has butter fingers at all. His first few years his hands were great. I think the issue is that they never ever throw it to him anymore even for lobs so he's caught by surprise.

Come on Chandler - you can’t seriously believe Mitch has good hands.

He literally fumbles 50% of the balls thrown to him - add in fact he can’t score outside 1” or do anything outside of hand the ball,off on the perimeter and you have a legit NON option on offense.

I seriously think he at least had great hands. He used to catch everything lobbed at him. He was snagging rebounds and getting balls off floor

this past year, I'll grant, was different. Either it is an anticipation thing, or maybe he needs some Lasik surgery.

Ok - fair enough.

Philc1 wrote:

Panos wrote:

Chandler wrote:

I think they will not chase someone, but they could be opportunistic. SO if some star starts grumbling they at least have the asserts to play the game, and they can play from strength because staying the course w incremental adds and development is a serious path too (see Exhibit Nuggets)

Hold on. Are you

OR

?

I guess no love for Wilson Chandler

Not since Mr. Earl left.
Where is his ass anyway? He was a cheerleader when they sucked and now disappeared

LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....

Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.

I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.

I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.

Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.

Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart

I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.

gradyandrew wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....

Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.

I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.

I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.

Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.

Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart

I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.

On top of that, the reason you don't trade for a guy like Ayton is the new CBA. There is now a 2nd cap "Apron" about $17.5M above the luxury tax threshold (i.e. 2nd Apron would be $181M in 2023). Teams that reach the 2nd Apron will be severely penalized. On top of luxury tax penalties...no mid level exception, no acquiring players on the buyout market, no trading cash, no ability to take in more salary than sent out in a trade. It will become increasingly important to have cost effective guys on the roster who play to their salary level. Ayton at $34M is not worth it IMO when compared to Mitch at $14M.

gradyandrew wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....

Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.

I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.

I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.

Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.

Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart

I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.

Lock Mitch in the gym shooting free throws underhanded. That method works.

gradyandrew wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....

Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.

I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.

I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.

Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.

Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart

I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.

Not sure how much of this is head to head but Ayton vs Knicks in 10 games avg. 15/11/2 assists/1 block. Mitch in 7 games 9/9 and 2 blocks. Ayton is younger and avg 17/10/2 assists/1 block while shooting 60% Fg / 76% ft on actual real shots / not dunks. The ft % alone is big.

As for extra cost for Ayton - there is a reason he got that money and if you are moving EF/IQ with new contract + Mitch we are offsetting the extra cost of Ayton/Shamet.

I just think Ayton is being undervalued and Brunson could really work well with him.

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....

Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.

I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.

I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.

Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.

Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart

I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.

On top of that, the reason you don't trade for a guy like Ayton is the new CBA. There is now a 2nd cap "Apron" about $17.5M above the luxury tax threshold (i.e. 2nd Apron would be $181M in 2023). Teams that reach the 2nd Apron will be severely penalized. On top of luxury tax penalties...no mid level exception, no acquiring players on the buyout market, no trading cash, no ability to take in more salary than sent out in a trade. It will become increasingly important to have cost effective guys on the roster who play to their salary level. Ayton at $34M is not worth it IMO when compared to Mitch at $14M.

That is now.
You don’t do this if you don’t think Ayton contributes to making the team better.
Same for KAT or any other big name. This does not happen for another season.
ITs a good point. Its one that might make our guys more valuable via trades becusase

Mitch, contract actually declines to just under 13mil. Same for Brunsons. Knicks paid these guys well at the time they signed and are out performing which is brilliant in RETROSPECT.
IM not sure how many other teams are doing this or could.
I don’t know what the knicks end game is but they are positioned well.

We all like to play amateur GMs. We should also be factoring in Salary and Cap impacts which are now even more important in moves based on the new CBA. Ayton is better than Mitch as a player. But the point is he may not be better for the Knicks at that salary as it will limit potential ither moves and may not get the team to a 55 win level.

KAT is an even better example. All the trade rumors on the net have the Knicks giving up players and picks for him. My question is why? The Wolves should be looking to unload KAT and selling low. Thy are saddled with Gobert and have to pay Edwards. KAT's contract extension will take him to between $50 - $62M through the 2027-28 season. Giving up too much talent/picks for KAT at that salary will probably put the Knicks over the 2nd Apron and not get them to the next level in terms of championship aspirations.

Yes, and all good points! This is where we all get limited as to the MONEY vs value.
The Rudy Gorbert thing is over blown a bit as he is is not awful, but the rest of the team go this with injuries and needed to move on from D'russell. Edwards got to a slow start and KAT missed all but 27 games.

The notion of Randle plus picks and players could be over blown? I know PhilC thinks "Well since ainge ****ed over Minny, they will need to do the same. Not necessarily. Why? It does not accomplish anything if in fact they are trying to.
Not if Randle and his contract are the primary asset as it should be. Mitch should not be in that because as Rudy is there already.
Mine gets big salary relief and production from Jules.
Knicks better with a Al HOreford type of 4-5 like KAT? Can Wolves be good with Jules, Rudy and Edwards and cap flex with a better contract?