blkexec wrote:So I’m one of the hardest critics on RJ and pretty much everybody on the team. But even I have to say stop the RJ hate. He’s a kid. Could’ve used another year in college without zion. Because in college he only needed to play down hill with minimal counter moves.

So he will adjust over time. The question not about RJ but the Knicks fans. How much patience with knick fans have, to see him reach his ceiling? How much patience will knick fans have, should be the thread title.

Now that we have Hart, that should give RJ more time to develop even more and a model in hart to learn from. He’ll be fine if he can survive all this negative back lash. Thumbs down Randle is a great example how fans can turn on you one minute, then chant MVP the following year, due to his on court performance.

Its not about hate. Its about eating what you kill. Right now RJ is not killing anything. I don't hate the kid. I don't even hate him as a player. But right now he's the weak link. He needs to slow down and get right (if there is something wrong, I'm guessing it's mental) and come back. To me, he's not playing like an NBA starter. And he does not have a God given right to that job. However, if Thibs and the staff think he should continue starting for confidence, an investment in the future RJ, I'll trust them on it. But he definitely needs his minutes pared back, like last night. Give him 25 minutes, and tell him to get out there and do other stuff to earn his paycheck besides stopping the ball and shooting airballs.

I'm not going to boo him. I don't think that helps any player. But I reserve the right to call him out on this little corner of the internet.

And to those saying it's nitpicking, it ain't. He is flat out bad right now.

gradyandrew wrote:

Nalod wrote:Seems this kid is degrading fast and perhaps its a nagging injury? They thinking week off during allstar break and keeping him in until then?
22 year olds don’t just stop being good defenders and start getting into foul trouble. The boxscore has not been kind to him but the eye test seems off. Some movements getting back on defense looks awkward. Less explosion to the rim.
With JHart we now have the luxury to cut his minutes.

He was out due to “non covid illness” a few games back. His play is consistently getting worse over the last 2-3 weeks.
I have no conspiracy or pretend inside knowledge. Its been mentioned by someone here as a guess that it could be his back?

I think RJ's shot profile more than anyone else benefits from having Robinson in the game. Because he takes so many shots at the rim Robinson draws away the rim protection and cleans up his misses. Brunson and Randle shoot a lot further away.

I think anyone who's been watching games can see that RJ s play of late has hurt more than helped the team on both sides of the ball. Could be injury, missing MitchRob, or just mental from having his name in potential deals and the Hart trade. Not much to do about it now except cut his minutes (last night he played 24). The long term downside of removing him from the starting lineup doesn't make sense for the regular season.

People also forget that these young guys have a life outside of basketball. You just hope that those distractions don’t get too loud. He certainly looks like a player in need of a break from basketball.

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:So I’m one of the hardest critics on RJ and pretty much everybody on the team. But even I have to say stop the RJ hate. He’s a kid. Could’ve used another year in college without zion. Because in college he only needed to play down hill with minimal counter moves.

So he will adjust over time. The question not about RJ but the Knicks fans. How much patience with knick fans have, to see him reach his ceiling? How much patience will knick fans have, should be the thread title.

Now that we have Hart, that should give RJ more time to develop even more and a model in hart to learn from. He’ll be fine if he can survive all this negative back lash. Thumbs down Randle is a great example how fans can turn on you one minute, then chant MVP the following year, due to his on court performance.

Its not about hate. Its about eating what you kill. Right now RJ is not killing anything. I don't hate the kid. I don't even hate him as a player. But right now he's the weak link. He needs to slow down and get right (if there is something wrong, I'm guessing it's mental) and come back. To me, he's not playing like an NBA starter. And he does not have a God given right to that job. However, if Thibs and the staff think he should continue starting for confidence, an investment in the future RJ, I'll trust them on it. But he definitely needs his minutes pared back, like last night. Give him 25 minutes, and tell him to get out there and do other stuff to earn his paycheck besides stopping the ball and shooting airballs.

I'm not going to boo him. I d

on't think that helps any player. But I reserve the right to call him out on this little corner of the internet.

And to those saying it's nitpicking, it ain't. He is flat out bad right now.

Not nitpicking, just pointless.

And whether it's 'deserved' or not isn't the point either.

Anyone with a monitor can see how this whole issue has snowballed into a dominant Knicks thing, and some of us even know why.

But anyone who chooses to engage in the pile-on is doing so purposely and consciously, regardless of Barrett's splits the last 20 games.

All of us can agree good or bad, this is all just talk. Has no effect on anything.

So I'd invite anyone to ask themselves what is the point of the gang beatings at this stage?

Panos wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:So I’m one of the hardest critics on RJ and pretty much everybody on the team. But even I have to say stop the RJ hate. He’s a kid. Could’ve used another year in college without zion. Because in college he only needed to play down hill with minimal counter moves.

So he will adjust over time. The question not about RJ but the Knicks fans. How much patience with knick fans have, to see him reach his ceiling? How much patience will knick fans have, should be the thread title.

Now that we have Hart, that should give RJ more time to develop even more and a model in hart to learn from. He’ll be fine if he can survive all this negative back lash. Thumbs down Randle is a great example how fans can turn on you one minute, then chant MVP the following year, due to his on court performance.

Its not about hate. Its about eating what you kill. Right now RJ is not killing anything. I don't hate the kid. I don't even hate him as a player. But right now he's the weak link. He needs to slow down and get right (if there is something wrong, I'm guessing it's mental) and come back. To me, he's not playing like an NBA starter. And he does not have a God given right to that job. However, if Thibs and the staff think he should continue starting for confidence, an investment in the future RJ, I'll trust them on it. But he definitely needs his minutes pared back, like last night. Give him 25 minutes, and tell him to get out there and do other stuff to earn his paycheck besides stopping the ball and shooting airballs.

I'm not going to boo him. I d

on't think that helps any player. But I reserve the right to call him out on this little corner of the internet.

And to those saying it's nitpicking, it ain't. He is flat out bad right now.

Not nitpicking, just pointless.

And whether it's 'deserved' or not isn't the point either.

Anyone with a monitor can see how this whole issue has snowballed into a dominant Knicks thing, and some of us even know why.

But anyone who chooses to engage in the pile-on is doing so purposely and consciously, regardless of Barrett's splits the last 20 games.

All of us can agree good or bad, this is all just talk. Has no effect on anything.

So I'd invite anyone to ask themselves what is the point of the gang beatings at this stage?

Newsflash! This whole website is pointless.

Yes!

Which means some fans like the gang beatings for the sake of gang beatings.

No argument.

That's in fact my point.

Rookie wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Panos wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:So I’m one of the hardest critics on RJ and pretty much everybody on the team. But even I have to say stop the RJ hate. He’s a kid. Could’ve used another year in college without zion. Because in college he only needed to play down hill with minimal counter moves.

So he will adjust over time. The question not about RJ but the Knicks fans. How much patience with knick fans have, to see him reach his ceiling? How much patience will knick fans have, should be the thread title.

Now that we have Hart, that should give RJ more time to develop even more and a model in hart to learn from. He’ll be fine if he can survive all this negative back lash. Thumbs down Randle is a great example how fans can turn on you one minute, then chant MVP the following year, due to his on court performance.

Its not about hate. Its about eating what you kill. Right now RJ is not killing anything. I don't hate the kid. I don't even hate him as a player. But right now he's the weak link. He needs to slow down and get right (if there is something wrong, I'm guessing it's mental) and come back. To me, he's not playing like an NBA starter. And he does not have a God given right to that job. However, if Thibs and the staff think he should continue starting for confidence, an investment in the future RJ, I'll trust them on it. But he definitely needs his minutes pared back, like last night. Give him 25 minutes, and tell him to get out there and do other stuff to earn his paycheck besides stopping the ball and shooting airballs.

I'm not going to boo him. I d

on't think that helps any player. But I reserve the right to call him out on this little corner of the internet.

And to those saying it's nitpicking, it ain't. He is flat out bad right now.

Not nitpicking, just pointless.

And whether it's 'deserved' or not isn't the point either.

Anyone with a monitor can see how this whole issue has snowballed into a dominant Knicks thing, and some of us even know why.

But anyone who chooses to engage in the pile-on is doing so purposely and consciously, regardless of Barrett's splits the last 20 games.

All of us can agree good or bad, this is all just talk. Has no effect on anything.

So I'd invite anyone to ask themselves what is the point of the gang beatings at this stage?

Newsflash! This whole website is pointless.

Yes!

Which means some fans like the gang beatings for the sake of gang beatings.

No argument.

That's in fact my point.

I thought that this is a message board dedicated to discussing basketball and the Knicks. Expressing frustration with players who are underperforming and also logging heavy minutes regardless of performance seems to me to be a topic of discussion worthy of its own thread. It is an open discussion and anyone is free to dispute or supply opinion and facts to the contrary. This is what we do. Trying to shut down the conversation is also your prerogative. Choosing to continue the conversation is also everyone’s option. It all works as long as we all stay civil.

Never not civil.

But the "dedicated to discussing basketball" rational is only genuine if you're not aware of the bigger picture.

And I think you are.

Your OP wasn't about inviting a dialogue. And I already pointed out the flaw in its premise - Barrett isn't "becoming" any of the things you identified.

I'm sorry, your post doesn't read like an earnest invitation to discuss the pros and cons of the play of RJ Barrett.

And if you're self aware enough to write what you just did, you're self aware enough to know how your OP really reads.

That's giving you credit, btw.

Now with JB, Randle, IQ stepping up, Grimes is hungry and hart is pushing his way up the roster chart. Lots of options on this team now and it’s no longer a 2 headed monster (Randle and RJ). Randle has adjusted well because he’s a true nba vet / all star l. RJ was a starter from the jump. This is the first time his mins are in danger of being cut. But thibs has a way of getting players to buy-in from players by placing the focus on the team. And if cutting RJs mins = more wins, that’s what thibs will do. I doubt he removes RJ like he did Kemba or rose. But RJ sitting in the 4th watching hart impact the game off the bench, will be a great learning lesson for RJ and Grimes. I believe thibs will stick with JB, IQ and Hart to finish games and you can’t blame him. But continue to start RJ and Grimes to sustain their confidence. It’s a balance act thibs has to play. I would hate to be in his 👟 shoes.

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:It is my opinion that venting frustration invites dialog.

Boom.

But here's the thing, and I invite anyone to dispute this.

The term itself implies a temporary build-up that needs release to maintain a standard operating level.

But for a LOT of sports fans, venting isn't the occasional maintenance event, it's the constant. It's the whole point. Which means it really isn't "venting" at all.

Frustrated by Barrett. Cool.

Frustrated the 100 win Yankees aren't the 110 win Yankees. Cool.

Frustrated Daniel Jones isn't Joe Burrows. Cool.

There's TONS of complaining about all those things to read up on to your heart's desire.

But if one HAS to join the choir to throw their hardly new or original two-cents in, let's be plain, the isn't venting.

Not the most popular position, and if Martin decides it's unappreciated, it's his door and he can lock if it he pleases.

But at least I can talk and actual interact with the people i'm critiquing. There's a there there.

Careful, psychoanalyzing people on message boards could become a full time job. When is my next appointment

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:It is my opinion that venting frustration invites dialog.

Boom.

But here's the thing, and I invite anyone to dispute this.

The term itself implies a temporary build-up that needs release to maintain a standard operating level.

But for a LOT of sports fans, venting isn't the occasional maintenance event, it's the constant. It's the whole point. Which means it really isn't "venting" at all.

Frustrated by Barrett. Cool.

Frustrated the 100 win Yankees aren't the 110 win Yankees. Cool.

Frustrated Daniel Jones isn't Joe Burrows. Cool.

There's TONS of complaining about all those things to read up on to your heart's desire.

But if one HAS to join the choir to throw their hardly new or original two-cents in, let's be plain, the isn't venting.

Not the most popular position, and if Martin decides it's unappreciated, it's his door and he can lock if it he pleases.

But at least I can talk and actual interact with the people i'm critiquing. There's a there there.

Careful, psychoanalyzing people on message boards could become a full time job. When is my next appointment

I don't need a degree to know we're no longer disputing the position I took.

Nor did I need to crystal ball for this - http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=65547

Can't get into anyone else's head. As a fan, I can't get enough Knicks especially when they win. Love to even watch recaps, youtube vids, analysis etc. and read up as much as I can after a win.....hope springs eternal. After a loss I tend to avoid all the immediate reactionary takes because I just don't do well with overt negativity. Lately...meaning this season in particular...there appears to be overt and constant negativity win or lose...during and after games...just does not seem to matter. Gotten to the point where I compensate, even sometimes appreciate the over the top optimistic views....such as Mentality's posts. Feel like I am in bizarro world.

foosballnick wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:It is my opinion that venting frustration invites dialog.

Boom.

But here's the thing, and I invite anyone to dispute this.

The term itself implies a temporary build-up that needs release to maintain a standard operating level.

But for a LOT of sports fans, venting isn't the occasional maintenance event, it's the constant. It's the whole point. Which means it really isn't "venting" at all.

Frustrated by Barrett. Cool.

Frustrated the 100 win Yankees aren't the 110 win Yankees. Cool.

Frustrated Daniel Jones isn't Joe Burrows. Cool.

There's TONS of complaining about all those things to read up on to your heart's desire.

But if one HAS to join the choir to throw their hardly new or original two-cents in, let's be plain, the isn't venting.

Not the most popular position, and if Martin decides it's unappreciated, it's his door and he can lock if it he pleases.

But at least I can talk and actual interact with the people i'm critiquing. There's a there there.

Careful, psychoanalyzing people on message boards could become a full time job. When is my next appointment

I don't need a degree to know we're no longer disputing the position I took.

Nor did I need to crystal ball for this - http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=65547

Can't get into anyone else's head. As a fan, I can't get enough Knicks especially when they win. Love to even watch recaps, youtube vids, analysis etc. and read up as much as I can after a win.....hope springs eternal. After a loss I tend to avoid all the immediate reactionary takes because I just don't do well with overt negativity. Lately...meaning this season in particular...there appears to be overt and constant negativity win or lose...during and after games...just does not seem to matter. Gotten to the point where I compensate, even sometimes appreciate the over the top optimistic views....such as Mentality's posts. Feel like I am in bizarro world.

Wow, where do you do all that. The only thing I read is the headlines at hoopshype and the headlines on the front page. The Post and News articles are a waste of time and posting and toasting isn’t worth reading anymore., I literally only come here to discuss the games and I probably spend too much time doing that. How do you guys keep up with all of it, it seems like such a waste of time. None of the blogs or papers have any insight and certainly not any more then we do from watching the games.

I will say I enjoy reading the headlines to keep up with what’s going on around the league and hoopshype does a good job of keeping it updated throughout the day.

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:It is my opinion that venting frustration invites dialog.

Boom.

But here's the thing, and I invite anyone to dispute this.

The term itself implies a temporary build-up that needs release to maintain a standard operating level.

But for a LOT of sports fans, venting isn't the occasional maintenance event, it's the constant. It's the whole point. Which means it really isn't "venting" at all.

Frustrated by Barrett. Cool.

Frustrated the 100 win Yankees aren't the 110 win Yankees. Cool.

Frustrated Daniel Jones isn't Joe Burrows. Cool.

There's TONS of complaining about all those things to read up on to your heart's desire.

But if one HAS to join the choir to throw their hardly new or original two-cents in, let's be plain, the isn't venting.

Not the most popular position, and if Martin decides it's unappreciated, it's his door and he can lock if it he pleases.

But at least I can talk and actual interact with the people i'm critiquing. There's a there there.

Careful, psychoanalyzing people on message boards could become a full time job. When is my next appointment

I don't need a degree to know we're no longer disputing the position I took.

Nor did I need to crystal ball for this - http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=65547

Can't get into anyone else's head. As a fan, I can't get enough Knicks especially when they win. Love to even watch recaps, youtube vids, analysis etc. and read up as much as I can after a win.....hope springs eternal. After a loss I tend to avoid all the immediate reactionary takes because I just don't do well with overt negativity. Lately...meaning this season in particular...there appears to be overt and constant negativity win or lose...during and after games...just does not seem to matter. Gotten to the point where I compensate, even sometimes appreciate the over the top optimistic views....such as Mentality's posts. Feel like I am in bizarro world.

Wow, where do you do all that. The only thing I read is the headlines at hoopshype and the headlines on the front page. The Post and News articles are a waste of time and posting and toasting isn’t worth reading anymore., I literally only come here to discuss the games and I probably spend too much time doing that. How do you guys keep up with all of it, it seems like such a waste of time. None of the blogs or papers have any insight and certainly not any more then we do from watching the games.

I will say I enjoy reading the headlines to keep up with what’s going on around the league and hoopshype does a good job of keeping it updated throughout the day.

STAY.AWAY.FROM.TWITTER.

Lol I don’t have a twitter account