Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Anyone remember how everyone pissed and moaned when the Giants took Jones with the 6th pick? Same gasbags LOLing Knicks the past couple of years.

Great New York sports day!

With good reason..and if you have been watching Giants football, and understand the game, you will see he is still making the same mistakes.

In hindsite, that whole 2019 QB draft was weak and, when its all said and done, the Giants may come out with the best QB out of the lot.

Go Giants

It’s the same as the experts who ream Randle for over dribbling a few times after another tough minded double double playing hard nosed defense. When we win. Or who flipped out over the draft night moves that brought us Grimes, Rokas, and Deuce. Or the KP trade. And so on.

KnickDanger wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Anyone remember how everyone pissed and moaned when the Giants took Jones with the 6th pick? Same gasbags LOLing Knicks the past couple of years.

Great New York sports day!

With good reason..and if you have been watching Giants football, and understand the game, you will see he is still making the same mistakes.

In hindsite, that whole 2019 QB draft was weak and, when its all said and done, the Giants may come out with the best QB out of the lot.

Go Giants

Oh sorry I don’t understand the game as well as you do. All I see is a tough winning quarterback using his arm and legs to lead the Giants to their first playoff win since their last Super Bowl. I bet there are many teams who squandered top picks and assets on QBs in that time - say the Jets- who would be delighted to have Jones behind center.

It’s the same as the experts who ream Randle for over dribbling a few times after another tough minded double double playing hard nosed defense. When we win. Or who flipped out over the draft night moves that brought us Grimes, Rokas, and Deuce. Or the KP trade. And so on.

That's ok.

Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Anyone remember how everyone pissed and moaned when the Giants took Jones with the 6th pick? Same gasbags LOLing Knicks the past couple of years.

Great New York sports day!

With good reason..and if you have been watching Giants football, and understand the game, you will see he is still making the same mistakes.

In hindsite, that whole 2019 QB draft was weak and, when its all said and done, the Giants may come out with the best QB out of the lot.

Go Giants

Please explain. I know football and have been watching. My observation is that he is NOT making the same mistakes and the team's performance as well as his stats would also bear that out. His turnovers are way down and he is not trying to play hero-ball. He has been extremely accurate this year, can run and is tough minded....all this with a no-name receiver corps. He is projected to make over $30M+ next year from either the Giants or another team.

CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Anyone remember how everyone pissed and moaned when the Giants took Jones with the 6th pick? Same gasbags LOLing Knicks the past couple of years.

Great New York sports day!

With good reason..and if you have been watching Giants football, and understand the game, you will see he is still making the same mistakes.

In hindsite, that whole 2019 QB draft was weak and, when its all said and done, the Giants may come out with the best QB out of the lot.

Go Giants

I've seen almost all the Giants games this year and Daniel Jones has become a much much better quarterback.
And after his last marvel, you know, setting records in the process, he is likely to command an extension at around 25 million a year. I wish we would have signed him when we had the chance but perhaps with his back against the wall, it made him perform better.

He has developed into a VERY special quarterback. His arm is somewhat better but his running game is on another level. For such a big guy he is VERY FAST (North to South, he isn't shifty or the like.)
I can't imagine how good he is going to be with a true #1 to throw to next year (hopefully from the draft.) Hopefully Wandale becomes our number 2 and I think Hodgins will be our #3. Wouldn't mind drafting 2 WR's though.

I don't think we get by Phili, but we have a chance. They are overly talented.

Jones showed a lot of potential his rookie year and got botched the next couple years by Joe Judge who was a Goddammned disaster. That guy was Adam Gase without the crazy eyes.

I wouldn’t be shocked if the giants upset the eagles. I’m kind of hoping for it because I know that would drive the stupid Jets owner Woody Johnson crazy and he will go hard after a real quarterback this offseason

Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Anyone remember how everyone pissed and moaned when the Giants took Jones with the 6th pick? Same gasbags LOLing Knicks the past couple of years.

Great New York sports day!

With good reason..and if you have been watching Giants football, and understand the game, you will see he is still making the same mistakes.

In hindsite, that whole 2019 QB draft was weak and, when its all said and done, the Giants may come out with the best QB out of the lot.

Go Giants

Please explain. I know football and have been watching. My observation is that he is NOT making the same mistakes and the team's performance as well as his stats would also bear that out. His turnovers are way down and he is not trying to play hero-ball. He has been extremely accurate this year, can run and is tough minded....all this with a no-name receiver corps. He is projected to make over $30M+ next year from either the Giants or another team.

Just take it at face value -- he knows the game. Him and the other experts who booed Jones on draft night and complained about his development on a mediocre team. The experts know you don't take your guy with the 6th pick -- you diddle around and get cute for value (they know what other teams would do). Or take Dwayne Haskins (rest his soul).

They also realize leading a team of mostly average talent to its first playoff win in 11 years is mitigated by "mistakes." So leave it at that.

lol...You really got butt hurt by that comment.

First off...EVERYONE (Giants fan and non-Giants) moaned about that pick. If you say didn't, you're lying. With that being said, that 2019 draft is not turning out to be the greatest, so its moot at this point.

Jones still has trouble reading a defense. His accuracy, although it has improved throughout the season, is still not very good and he makes zero adjustments on the line. To his credit, the kid is an athlete and seems to be very coachable. Daboll has done a FANTASTIC job coaching him up and coaches Kafka and Tierney have done great playing to his strength and shortening up the playbook.

Would I give him 30+ mil? HELL TO THE F1CK NO. I'm looking at the 20-25 mil range and that's being generous. The Giants would be foolish to tie up so much $$ on Jones when he needs so many pieces on offensive in order to be successful.

As a matter of fact, I did not moan and have been pro-Jones. It doesn't matter though. My whole point is about the mob of sheep called New York fans that whine, complain, and try to tear down, just like they do with Thibs, Randle, the draft picks, the signings...If the shoe fits....

And awwww -- you got to "lol butt hurt" me. That's the classic school yard poster response when someone responds in kind.

GustavBahler wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Anyone remember how everyone pissed and moaned when the Giants took Jones with the 6th pick? Same gasbags LOLing Knicks the past couple of years.

Great New York sports day!

With good reason..and if you have been watching Giants football, and understand the game, you will see he is still making the same mistakes.

In hindsite, that whole 2019 QB draft was weak and, when its all said and done, the Giants may come out with the best QB out of the lot.

Go Giants

Please explain. I know football and have been watching. My observation is that he is NOT making the same mistakes and the team's performance as well as his stats would also bear that out. His turnovers are way down and he is not trying to play hero-ball. He has been extremely accurate this year, can run and is tough minded....all this with a no-name receiver corps. He is projected to make over $30M+ next year from either the Giants or another team.

Just take it at face value -- he knows the game. Him and the other experts who booed Jones on draft night and complained about his development on a mediocre team. The experts know you don't take your guy with the 6th pick -- you diddle around and get cute for value (they know what other teams would do). Or take Dwayne Haskins (rest his soul).

They also realize leading a team of mostly average talent to its first playoff win in 11 years is mitigated by "mistakes." So leave it at that.

lol...You really got butt hurt by that comment.

First off...EVERYONE (Giants fan and non-Giants) moaned about that pick. If you say didn't, you're lying. With that being said, that 2019 draft is not turning out to be the greatest, so its moot at this point.

Jones still has trouble reading a defense. His accuracy, although it has improved throughout the season, is still not very good and he makes zero adjustments on the line. To his credit, the kid is an athlete and seems to be very coachable. Daboll has done a FANTASTIC job coaching him up and coaches Kafka and Tierney have done great playing to his strength and shortening up the playbook.

Would I give him 30+ mil? HELL TO THE F1CK NO. I'm looking at the 20-25 mil range and that's being generous. The Giants would be foolish to tie up so much $$ on Jones when he needs so many pieces on offensive in order to be successful.

As a matter of fact, I did not moan and have been pro-Jones. It doesn't matter though. My whole point is about the mob of sheep called New York fans that whine, complain, and try to tear down, just like they do with Thibs, Randle, the draft picks, the signings...If the shoe fits....

And awwww -- you got to "lol butt hurt" me. That's the classic school yard poster response when someone responds in kind.

What's the appropriate amount of criticism? When is it too much?

When its constant and not factual and does not lead to any meaningful discourse.

Case in point....the poster Swishfm3 is criticizing Daniel Jones in this thread for making the "same mistakes" including not being accurate, not being able to read a defense and not making adjustments, and he also uses passive agressive criticism such as finding success by being "coached up" with a shortened playbook. For good measure he brings in the 2019 draft positioning as some type of non sequitur to try and pile on and strenghthen his criticism.

If you take a deeper dive into accessable Advanced Passing data on Football Reference you would find that Daniel Jones currently sits on top of all other starting QB's with the highest on target percentage - 81% and in the top 4 with the lowest Bad Throw Percentage at 12.2%. He's doing this despite being one of the highest pressured QBs in the NFL at over 26% ranking in the top 5. Jones is also in the top 5 for completion percentage at 67.2%. All of this with the NFL's least experienced and perhaps lowest rated starting WRs.

So to the point....criticism that has no substance and is lazily applied or can easily be fact checked does not meet the standard of "appropriate" IMHO.

KnickDanger wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Anyone remember how everyone pissed and moaned when the Giants took Jones with the 6th pick? Same gasbags LOLing Knicks the past couple of years.

Great New York sports day!

With good reason..and if you have been watching Giants football, and understand the game, you will see he is still making the same mistakes.

In hindsite, that whole 2019 QB draft was weak and, when its all said and done, the Giants may come out with the best QB out of the lot.

Go Giants

Please explain. I know football and have been watching. My observation is that he is NOT making the same mistakes and the team's performance as well as his stats would also bear that out. His turnovers are way down and he is not trying to play hero-ball. He has been extremely accurate this year, can run and is tough minded....all this with a no-name receiver corps. He is projected to make over $30M+ next year from either the Giants or another team.

Just take it at face value -- he knows the game. Him and the other experts who booed Jones on draft night and complained about his development on a mediocre team. The experts know you don't take your guy with the 6th pick -- you diddle around and get cute for value (they know what other teams would do). Or take Dwayne Haskins (rest his soul).

They also realize leading a team of mostly average talent to its first playoff win in 11 years is mitigated by "mistakes." So leave it at that.

lol...You really got butt hurt by that comment.

First off...EVERYONE (Giants fan and non-Giants) moaned about that pick. If you say didn't, you're lying. With that being said, that 2019 draft is not turning out to be the greatest, so its moot at this point.

Jones still has trouble reading a defense. His accuracy, although it has improved throughout the season, is still not very good and he makes zero adjustments on the line. To his credit, the kid is an athlete and seems to be very coachable. Daboll has done a FANTASTIC job coaching him up and coaches Kafka and Tierney have done great playing to his strength and shortening up the playbook.

Would I give him 30+ mil? HELL TO THE F1CK NO. I'm looking at the 20-25 mil range and that's being generous. The Giants would be foolish to tie up so much $$ on Jones when he needs so many pieces on offensive in order to be successful.

As a matter of fact, I did not moan and have been pro-Jones. It doesn't matter though. My whole point is about the mob of sheep called New York fans that whine, complain, and try to tear down, just like they do with Thibs, Randle, the draft picks, the signings...If the shoe fits....

And awwww -- you got to "lol butt hurt" me. That's the classic school yard poster response when someone responds in kind.

What's the appropriate amount of criticism? When is it too much?

When its constant and not factual and does not lead to any meaningful discourse.

Case in point....the poster Swishfm3 is criticizing Daniel Jones in this thread for making the "same mistakes" including not being accurate, not being able to read a defense and not making adjustments, and he also uses passive agressive criticism such as finding success by being "coached up" with a shortened playbook. For good measure he brings in the 2019 draft positioning as some type of non sequitur to try and pile on and strenghthen his criticism.

If you take a deeper dive into accessable Advanced Passing data on Football Reference you would find that Daniel Jones currently sits on top of all other starting QB's with the highest on target percentage - 81% and in the top 4 with the lowest Bad Throw Percentage at 12.2%. He's doing this despite being one of the highest pressured QBs in the NFL at over 26% ranking in the top 5. Jones is also in the top 5 for completion percentage at 67.2%. All of this with the NFL's least experienced and perhaps lowest rated starting WRs.

So to the point....criticism that has no substance and is lazily applied or can easily be fact checked does not meet the standard of "appropriate" IMHO.

Yup!

Thank you -- I needed someone smart to say what I wanted to say!

That was a very eloquent response by foosballnick, but that really wasnt my question. That was a specific incident about one player.

Not trying to get in the weeds here. After the gamethread, you frequently call out other fans for being too critical. Too critical of a player or coach.

You have been speaking broadly, you threw a bunch of names out there. Broadly speaking, what criticism of the players, Thibs, do you believe is fair? Because all Im hearing is what isnt. Im sure you dont believe that its all been pitch perfect.

KnickDanger wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Anyone remember how everyone pissed and moaned when the Giants took Jones with the 6th pick? Same gasbags LOLing Knicks the past couple of years.

Great New York sports day!

With good reason..and if you have been watching Giants football, and understand the game, you will see he is still making the same mistakes.

In hindsite, that whole 2019 QB draft was weak and, when its all said and done, the Giants may come out with the best QB out of the lot.

Go Giants

Please explain. I know football and have been watching. My observation is that he is NOT making the same mistakes and the team's performance as well as his stats would also bear that out. His turnovers are way down and he is not trying to play hero-ball. He has been extremely accurate this year, can run and is tough minded....all this with a no-name receiver corps. He is projected to make over $30M+ next year from either the Giants or another team.

Just take it at face value -- he knows the game. Him and the other experts who booed Jones on draft night and complained about his development on a mediocre team. The experts know you don't take your guy with the 6th pick -- you diddle around and get cute for value (they know what other teams would do). Or take Dwayne Haskins (rest his soul).

They also realize leading a team of mostly average talent to its first playoff win in 11 years is mitigated by "mistakes." So leave it at that.

lol...You really got butt hurt by that comment.

First off...EVERYONE (Giants fan and non-Giants) moaned about that pick. If you say didn't, you're lying. With that being said, that 2019 draft is not turning out to be the greatest, so its moot at this point.

Jones still has trouble reading a defense. His accuracy, although it has improved throughout the season, is still not very good and he makes zero adjustments on the line. To his credit, the kid is an athlete and seems to be very coachable. Daboll has done a FANTASTIC job coaching him up and coaches Kafka and Tierney have done great playing to his strength and shortening up the playbook.

Would I give him 30+ mil? HELL TO THE F1CK NO. I'm looking at the 20-25 mil range and that's being generous. The Giants would be foolish to tie up so much $$ on Jones when he needs so many pieces on offensive in order to be successful.

As a matter of fact, I did not moan and have been pro-Jones. It doesn't matter though. My whole point is about the mob of sheep called New York fans that whine, complain, and try to tear down, just like they do with Thibs, Randle, the draft picks, the signings...If the shoe fits....

And awwww -- you got to "lol butt hurt" me. That's the classic school yard poster response when someone responds in kind.

What's the appropriate amount of criticism? When is it too much?

When its constant and not factual and does not lead to any meaningful discourse.

Case in point....the poster Swishfm3 is criticizing Daniel Jones in this thread for making the "same mistakes" including not being accurate, not being able to read a defense and not making adjustments, and he also uses passive agressive criticism such as finding success by being "coached up" with a shortened playbook. For good measure he brings in the 2019 draft positioning as some type of non sequitur to try and pile on and strenghthen his criticism.

If you take a deeper dive into accessable Advanced Passing data on Football Reference you would find that Daniel Jones currently sits on top of all other starting QB's with the highest on target percentage - 81% and in the top 4 with the lowest Bad Throw Percentage at 12.2%. He's doing this despite being one of the highest pressured QBs in the NFL at over 26% ranking in the top 5. Jones is also in the top 5 for completion percentage at 67.2%. All of this with the NFL's least experienced and perhaps lowest rated starting WRs.

So to the point....criticism that has no substance and is lazily applied or can easily be fact checked does not meet the standard of "appropriate" IMHO.

Yup!

Thank you -- I needed someone smart to say what I wanted to say!

That was a very eloquent response by foosballnick, but that really wasnt my question. That was a specific incident about one player.

Not trying to get in the weeds here. After the gamethread, you frequently call out other fans for being too critical. Too critical of a player or coach.

You have been speaking broadly, you threw a bunch of names out there. Broadly speaking, what criticism of the players, Thibs, do you believe is fair? Because all Im hearing is what isnt. Im sure you dont believe that its all been pitch perfect.

I point out what I consider the mob mentality. The trade Randle/fire Thibs/boo the Jones pick mentality. The reactive pretty much thoughtless mentality. Foosball put it well in what I bolded. I do call out those in the game thread and elsewhere who seem to only bitch and moan and actually seem to enjoy the team failing. It bewilders me and I feel impelled to address it. That is probably dumb on my part. Not allowing for criticism is a ridiculous premise and not one I adhere to. I've certainly criticized the coach on his doghouse for instance, or the team for bad effort, foul shooting, their home record.

Seems to bug you. Oh well. Don't know what you mean by throwing names out there. I've given examples of what I consider to be the lazy mob rule mentality. And I do generally do so broadly. But when you come direct at me, I will respond directly.

Thats a pretty hostile and defensive response to a very easy question. Which you still havent answered.. "superfan".

KnickDanger wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Anyone remember how everyone pissed and moaned when the Giants took Jones with the 6th pick? Same gasbags LOLing Knicks the past couple of years.

Great New York sports day!

With good reason..and if you have been watching Giants football, and understand the game, you will see he is still making the same mistakes.

In hindsite, that whole 2019 QB draft was weak and, when its all said and done, the Giants may come out with the best QB out of the lot.

Go Giants

Please explain. I know football and have been watching. My observation is that he is NOT making the same mistakes and the team's performance as well as his stats would also bear that out. His turnovers are way down and he is not trying to play hero-ball. He has been extremely accurate this year, can run and is tough minded....all this with a no-name receiver corps. He is projected to make over $30M+ next year from either the Giants or another team.

Just take it at face value -- he knows the game. Him and the other experts who booed Jones on draft night and complained about his development on a mediocre team. The experts know you don't take your guy with the 6th pick -- you diddle around and get cute for value (they know what other teams would do). Or take Dwayne Haskins (rest his soul).

They also realize leading a team of mostly average talent to its first playoff win in 11 years is mitigated by "mistakes." So leave it at that.

lol...You really got butt hurt by that comment.

First off...EVERYONE (Giants fan and non-Giants) moaned about that pick. If you say didn't, you're lying. With that being said, that 2019 draft is not turning out to be the greatest, so its moot at this point.

Jones still has trouble reading a defense. His accuracy, although it has improved throughout the season, is still not very good and he makes zero adjustments on the line. To his credit, the kid is an athlete and seems to be very coachable. Daboll has done a FANTASTIC job coaching him up and coaches Kafka and Tierney have done great playing to his strength and shortening up the playbook.

Would I give him 30+ mil? HELL TO THE F1CK NO. I'm looking at the 20-25 mil range and that's being generous. The Giants would be foolish to tie up so much $$ on Jones when he needs so many pieces on offensive in order to be successful.

As a matter of fact, I did not moan and have been pro-Jones. It doesn't matter though. My whole point is about the mob of sheep called New York fans that whine, complain, and try to tear down, just like they do with Thibs, Randle, the draft picks, the signings...If the shoe fits....

And awwww -- you got to "lol butt hurt" me. That's the classic school yard poster response when someone responds in kind.

What's the appropriate amount of criticism? When is it too much?

When its constant and not factual and does not lead to any meaningful discourse.

Case in point....the poster Swishfm3 is criticizing Daniel Jones in this thread for making the "same mistakes" including not being accurate, not being able to read a defense and not making adjustments, and he also uses passive agressive criticism such as finding success by being "coached up" with a shortened playbook. For good measure he brings in the 2019 draft positioning as some type of non sequitur to try and pile on and strenghthen his criticism.

If you take a deeper dive into accessable Advanced Passing data on Football Reference you would find that Daniel Jones currently sits on top of all other starting QB's with the highest on target percentage - 81% and in the top 4 with the lowest Bad Throw Percentage at 12.2%. He's doing this despite being one of the highest pressured QBs in the NFL at over 26% ranking in the top 5. Jones is also in the top 5 for completion percentage at 67.2%. All of this with the NFL's least experienced and perhaps lowest rated starting WRs.

So to the point....criticism that has no substance and is lazily applied or can easily be fact checked does not meet the standard of "appropriate" IMHO.

Yup!

Thank you -- I needed someone smart to say what I wanted to say!

That was a very eloquent response by foosballnick, but that really wasnt my question. That was a specific incident about one player.

Not trying to get in the weeds here. After the gamethread, you frequently call out other fans for being too critical. Too critical of a player or coach.

You have been speaking broadly, you threw a bunch of names out there. Broadly speaking, what criticism of the players, Thibs, do you believe is fair? Because all Im hearing is what isnt. Im sure you dont believe that its all been pitch perfect.

I point out what I consider the mob mentality. The trade Randle/fire Thibs/boo the Jones pick mentality. The reactive pretty much thoughtless mentality. Foosball put it well in what I bolded. I do call out those in the game thread and elsewhere who seem to only bitch and moan and actually seem to enjoy the team failing. It bewilders me and I feel impelled to address it. That is probably dumb on my part. Not allowing for criticism is a ridiculous premise and not one I adhere to. I've certainly criticized the coach on his doghouse for instance, or the team for bad effort, foul shooting, their home record.

Seems to bug you. Oh well. Don't know what you mean by throwing names out there. I've given examples of what I consider to be the lazy mob rule mentality. And I do generally do so broadly. But when you come direct at me, I will respond directly.

Thats a pretty hostile and defensive response to a very easy question. Which you still havent answered.. "superfan".

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at - I think I was very clear. You want to call names. Well I think you're passive aggressive. There.

But this has become tiresome. Have the last word if you wish -- I'm done.

OK, here is my last word. You bitch and moan more than all the people you claim are bitching and moaning put together. About what?? BITCHING AND MOANING!

You really think adding your sheer tonnage of bitching and moaning is going to help?

Im trying to figure out if you have something to contribute other than wasting my time wading through all your bitching and moaning about posters not thinking exactly the way you do. You want to talk about tiresome?!