He has all the offensive skills, handle, jump shooting, passing.

Everyone sees it, he just needs to find his pace and the guys need to do a better job of finding the open man, getting guys shots in rhythm.

Thibs should run some top of the guy isolations, they should run some switches, set an occasional screen.

His shot is going to fall in the second half. Hart is going to help his game too.

Should be exciting, fringe All Star down the road.

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SupremeCommander wrote:I think the best case is Jimmy Buttler. I know everyone here is really high on Grimes, but his PER is 10. That is not exciting, but PER does not capture defense well enough. Jimmy Buttler was at 12 for his first three years essentially. Then he took a massive leap.

Hopefully the Rising Stars game is a confidence booster offensively. Maybe this serves as the platform for him to believe in his game a bit more. He was catching garbage passes and twirling and splashing it.

PER is a really outdated stat

TheGame wrote:The issue is Grimes needs the ball in his hands more to fully unlock his potential, and with Randle, Brunson, and RJ taking all the shots, Grimes is limited to catch and shoot opportunities. The Knicks need to run a few plays a half for him, and ultimately, I think the Knicks need to trade RJ and gives RJ’s shots to Grimes.

For those spot up 3's I agree but otherwise I feel like they have different shot profiles. I don't really remember Grimes taking it to the rim, absorbing contact, and taking a layup. For all the grief RJ gets, he has shown that he can regularly get to the line. Grimes is better at cutting; I'm not sure I've ever seen RJ back door someone for the alley oop- which leads me to my Eureka moment.

Is RJ just completely inexperienced with playing with a PG?

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I think the best case is Jimmy Buttler. I know everyone here is really high on Grimes, but his PER is 10. That is not exciting, but PER does not capture defense well enough. Jimmy Buttler was at 12 for his first three years essentially. Then he took a massive leap.

Hopefully the Rising Stars game is a confidence booster offensively. Maybe this serves as the platform for him to believe in his game a bit more. He was catching garbage passes and twirling and splashing it.

PER is a really outdated stat

PER is still the single best universal metric there is, unless you have something better?

VORP or winshares, RAPTOR. PER overvalued counting stats and leaves out defense. Brunson and Randle are top 20 in win shares and VORP but neither is up there for PER.

I’ve been high on him since day one and ready to move RJ Barrett because of him.

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I think the best case is Jimmy Buttler. I know everyone here is really high on Grimes, but his PER is 10. That is not exciting, but PER does not capture defense well enough. Jimmy Buttler was at 12 for his first three years essentially. Then he took a massive leap.

Hopefully the Rising Stars game is a confidence booster offensively. Maybe this serves as the platform for him to believe in his game a bit more. He was catching garbage passes and twirling and splashing it.

PER is a really outdated stat

PER is still the single best universal metric there is, unless you have something better?

VORP or winshares, RAPTOR. PER overvalued counting stats and leaves out defense. Brunson and Randle are top 20 in win shares and VORP but neither is up there for PER.

PER also seems to overvalue big men. I still like it when comparing players at similar positions, but it gets wonky for me when I do cross positional comparisons. Also not a fair to use it when measuring high useage players with lower useage ones. Grimes has a VORP above replacement level at . 04. Not the greatest, but better than RJ's -.04.(replacement level is -2.0). But the low PER probably shows that Grimes could step it up more on offense. But that has almost as much to do with the coaches as it does with Grimes.

Yes to both of the above. I still have a hard time understanding VORP, winshares, RAPTOR or at least don't know how to quantify them.

well that's why I go back to PER. I always acknowledge its limitations, as I did in my initial post. But I understand it. I certainly do not have the aptitude for the other ones as well. I just know that 15 is average 20-25 is all star, and 25+ is where you are really humming. It is certainly flawed and there is a reason John Hollinger no longer exists... but I do find it be reliable when you are comparing two similar players. Grimes and Butler are similar players to me. You can see that Butler was a little better. You can see that Butler was the same player for three years and then really took a leap. I think that is encouraging

If people have that much heartburn over PER next time I will use winshares. I do not think winshares are as good as in baseball though because of how the events are continuously measured instead of discretely

Gatherers can wait for a kick-out to come to them and make due whatever is hanging on the vines that day.

Hunters perform best when they're out there looking for their shot.

Not to put too much emphasis on a pick-up game, but Grimes other breakout performance was when he was THE guy in summer league.

Some guys just respond to the freedom of looking for and taking their shot. It gets into their heads when they have to defer and THINK about whether he's taking a better shot away from the first options.

To some guys, thinking and second guessing is bad.

Grimes may have to be allowed to hunt his shot when on the floor with the big 3 or learn to live with limited offensive opportunities.

But the kid obviously had no issue taking over on the floor with higher and more celebrated picks (including Mobley)... will make for an interesting dynamic for the next few years.