HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Chandler wrote:The celts often say it’s not who starts a game that matters. It’s who finishes. Knicks should employ this. If RJ or Julius or anyone else is having an off night then he doesn’t finish.

And I don’t agree that RJ thinks the only way to contribute is w scoring. I do agree he’s pressing too much and playing tight. He is a good player who has the potential to be very good but I’m not imagining a future where he’s dominant like Zion or electric like Ja. That doesn’t mean he’s second unit. But he does need to earn his minutes and thibs needs to adapt

There are a lot of guys right now not playing well.

Certain players do not have to earn mins, they already got it. JB, RJ & Randle.
But they could definitely lose mins. This is why players love thibs. He thinks from an 82 game season perspective, meaning no drastic changes with his big 3 so early in the season. Fans look at these games on a week to week or sometimes even day to day. That’s why some of us need therapy now. Meanwhile thibs is on a different clock than us. Season still early.

The FO is the blame which is becoming more and more glaring, especially after wins due to injuries. If we had a full team I don’t think we win most games. Injuries helps thibs rotation which mean if he had the right team for him he will succeed. Due to injuries, We got to see Grimes with consistent starter mins recently and how he impacts that starting unit. Deuce playing cause of Rose injury. Deuce showing he can impact a game without scoring. Not too many players can do that on this team besides our centers and this new version of cam. Sims showing thibs he can contribute thanks to Mitch injury. Mitch is my man. I remember telling u guys I hooped with him and got an up close look prior to him being drafted. So far he’s exactly what I expected after talking to him. Basketball is not his first or second love. This is why he’s always injured and why I doubt he will have that much growth as a player other than natural man strength from getting older. But his lack of mobility laterally hurts is against athletic teams. But sims is built for that type of play. I’m really liking how sims is playing. Still need Mitch for certain matchups but sims is fun to watch.

Thibs will be thibs and that works for him. As you can see if the FO give him a team to play thibs style, Then the rotations look better. But add in a healthy cam, Mitch and drose, it becomes a challenge for thibs to find the right rotation. Which is why we lose games we should win.

Thibs plays the guys that give him a better chance to win. Not guys fans think can be that.
Fans think they are in day to day to know better.
It did not take a Cam injury to play Grimes. Grimes was hurt.
It did not take a EF injury to play Cam. Thibs did that.
Rose is better than Deuce. Kid can't shoot and will be in China if he can't. Effect on game is hopeful fan over reach. And I guess a good coach benches his backup PG for no reason?
MR is better than Sims. Let's leave out the games Sims came in and fouled repeatedly.
Obi back to not shooting. Should Thibs bench him?
Should Thibs have benched IQ for EF due to performance prior to last night?

Funny how fans complain about how Thibs gives leeway to top players, who have earned it, but don't notice that he does with the youngins as well.

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Chandler wrote:The celts often say it’s not who starts a game that matters. It’s who finishes. Knicks should employ this. If RJ or Julius or anyone else is having an off night then he doesn’t finish.

And I don’t agree that RJ thinks the only way to contribute is w scoring. I do agree he’s pressing too much and playing tight. He is a good player who has the potential to be very good but I’m not imagining a future where he’s dominant like Zion or electric like Ja. That doesn’t mean he’s second unit. But he does need to earn his minutes and thibs needs to adapt

There are a lot of guys right now not playing well.

Certain players do not have to earn mins, they already got it. JB, RJ & Randle.
But they could definitely lose mins. This is why players love thibs. He thinks from an 82 game season perspective, meaning no drastic changes with his big 3 so early in the season. Fans look at these games on a week to week or sometimes even day to day. That’s why some of us need therapy now. Meanwhile thibs is on a different clock than us. Season still early.

The FO is the blame which is becoming more and more glaring, especially after wins due to injuries. If we had a full team I don’t think we win most games. Injuries helps thibs rotation which mean if he had the right team for him he will succeed. Due to injuries, We got to see Grimes with consistent starter mins recently and how he impacts that starting unit. Deuce playing cause of Rose injury. Deuce showing he can impact a game without scoring. Not too many players can do that on this team besides our centers and this new version of cam. Sims showing thibs he can contribute thanks to Mitch injury. Mitch is my man. I remember telling u guys I hooped with him and got an up close look prior to him being drafted. So far he’s exactly what I expected after talking to him. Basketball is not his first or second love. This is why he’s always injured and why I doubt he will have that much growth as a player other than natural man strength from getting older. But his lack of mobility laterally hurts us against athletic teams. But sims is built for that type of play. I’m really liking how sims is playing. Still need Mitch for certain matchups but sims is fun to watch.

Thibs will be thibs and that works for him. As you can see if the FO give him a team to play thibs style, Then the rotations look better. But add in a healthy cam, Mitch and drose, it becomes a challenge for thibs to find the right rotation. Which is why we lose games we should win.

Thibs plays the guys that give him a better chance to win. Not guys fans think can be that.
Fans think they are in day to day to know better.
It did not take a Cam injury to play Grimes. Grimes was hurt.
It did not take a EF injury to play Cam. Thibs did that.
Rose is better than Deuce. Kid can't shoot and will be in China if he can't. Effect on game is hopeful fan over reach. And I guess a good coach benches his backup PG for no reason?
MR is better than Sims. Let's leave out the games Sims came in and fouled repeatedly.
Obi back to not shooting. Should Thibs bench him?
Should Thibs have benched IQ for EF due to performance prior to last night?

Funny how fans complain about how Thibs gives leeway to top players, who have earned it, but don't notice that he does with the youngins as well.

Funny how…...
Fans refuse to point the finger at the FO while protecting Thibs.
Sims is better than MR (and this is coming from a MR fan) in a lot of areas, especially lateral movements.
Deuce can't hit the side of a barn, but his impact on the game is more positive than some of the inefficient chucker's we currently have.
Fans forget Grimes got burn in the first place because of injuries to Rose last year.
Fans didn't realize Grimes was healthy and has been healthy for a 2 or 3 weeks now, but forced out of the rotation because thibs prefer a tight rotation. And to his credit, that rotation led to wins.

If Cam was health, Grimes would only play garbage time right now. Grimes isn't playing because hes healthy now, he's playing because Cam is not healthy.

Secondly, I had to read my own post to see where all this animosity is coming from. Maybe it's all the positives I said about thibs that got you bent backwards. My issue is with the FO who has been great at moving up and down the draft and getting something positive in return. But can they build a championship team for Thibs to coach?

D.Rose needs to go. Clear up log jam. Great player and one of the best guards off the bench. Needs to go.
Either we build a playoff team around Randle or let him go. The problem is we never know what Leon Rose is thinking or whats his building strategy because he doesn't talk.
EF is a great player to have off the bench, but he's being paid like a starter and came to the knicks to be the starting SG. He's got to go.

The problem is not individual players, but the team as a whole.

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Chandler wrote:The celts often say it’s not who starts a game that matters. It’s who finishes. Knicks should employ this. If RJ or Julius or anyone else is having an off night then he doesn’t finish.

And I don’t agree that RJ thinks the only way to contribute is w scoring. I do agree he’s pressing too much and playing tight. He is a good player who has the potential to be very good but I’m not imagining a future where he’s dominant like Zion or electric like Ja. That doesn’t mean he’s second unit. But he does need to earn his minutes and thibs needs to adapt

There are a lot of guys right now not playing well.

Certain players do not have to earn mins, they already got it. JB, RJ & Randle.
But they could definitely lose mins. This is why players love thibs. He thinks from an 82 game season perspective, meaning no drastic changes with his big 3 so early in the season. Fans look at these games on a week to week or sometimes even day to day. That’s why some of us need therapy now. Meanwhile thibs is on a different clock than us. Season still early.

The FO is the blame which is becoming more and more glaring, especially after wins due to injuries. If we had a full team I don’t think we win most games. Injuries helps thibs rotation which mean if he had the right team for him he will succeed. Due to injuries, We got to see Grimes with consistent starter mins recently and how he impacts that starting unit. Deuce playing cause of Rose injury. Deuce showing he can impact a game without scoring. Not too many players can do that on this team besides our centers and this new version of cam. Sims showing thibs he can contribute thanks to Mitch injury. Mitch is my man. I remember telling u guys I hooped with him and got an up close look prior to him being drafted. So far he’s exactly what I expected after talking to him. Basketball is not his first or second love. This is why he’s always injured and why I doubt he will have that much growth as a player other than natural man strength from getting older. But his lack of mobility laterally hurts us against athletic teams. But sims is built for that type of play. I’m really liking how sims is playing. Still need Mitch for certain matchups but sims is fun to watch.

Thibs will be thibs and that works for him. As you can see if the FO give him a team to play thibs style, Then the rotations look better. But add in a healthy cam, Mitch and drose, it becomes a challenge for thibs to find the right rotation. Which is why we lose games we should win.

Thibs plays the guys that give him a better chance to win. Not guys fans think can be that.
Fans think they are in day to day to know better.
It did not take a Cam injury to play Grimes. Grimes was hurt.
It did not take a EF injury to play Cam. Thibs did that.
Rose is better than Deuce. Kid can't shoot and will be in China if he can't. Effect on game is hopeful fan over reach. And I guess a good coach benches his backup PG for no reason?
MR is better than Sims. Let's leave out the games Sims came in and fouled repeatedly.
Obi back to not shooting. Should Thibs bench him?
Should Thibs have benched IQ for EF due to performance prior to last night?

Funny how fans complain about how Thibs gives leeway to top players, who have earned it, but don't notice that he does with the youngins as well.

Funny how…...
Fans refuse to point the finger at the FO while protecting Thibs.
Sims is better than MR (and this is coming from a MR fan) in a lot of areas, especially lateral movements.
Deuce can't hit the side of a barn, but his impact on the game is more positive than some of the inefficient chucker's we currently have.
Fans forget Grimes got burn in the first place because of injuries to Rose last year.
Fans didn't realize Grimes was healthy and has been healthy for a 2 or 3 weeks now, but forced out of the rotation because thibs prefer a tight rotation. And to his credit, that rotation led to wins.

If Cam was health, Grimes would only play garbage time right now. Grimes isn't playing because hes healthy now, he's playing because Cam is not healthy.

Secondly, I had to read my own post to see where all this animosity is coming from. Maybe it's all the positives I said about thibs that got you bent backwards. My issue is with the FO who has been great at moving up and down the draft and getting something positive in return. But can they build a championship team for Thibs to coach?

D.Rose needs to go. Clear up log jam. Great player and one of the best guards off the bench. Needs to go.
Either we build a playoff team around Randle or let him go. The problem is we never know what Leon Rose is thinking or whats his building strategy because he doesn't talk.
EF is a great player to have off the bench, but he's being paid like a starter and came to the knicks to be the starting SG. He's got to go.

The problem is not individual players, but the team as a whole.

Not bent backwards. Just disagree with literally everything you said about who you think should be playing or how Thibs has held anyone back. But it's your opinion. Mine is that most of your statements are based on things that have yet to happen. Ie, Deuce has more impact. Or that Sums is better than MR.

Grimes has not been healthy for three weeks. Btw, did Grimes get pushed to the back last year? He earned the chance and played really well. Cam got a chance, played well and pushed EF to the bench?
Thibs not so stubborn.

Just don't see how you think a team should be coached/managed?
Sit FAs/Starters after 10 games of lack luster production?
Give G league guys time despite more tenured proven players on the roster?
Bench a 3 pick you just extended cuz he is struggling? Not exactly great development.

Seems to me like most of your take is knee jerk armchair stuff. Takes nothing into account regarding managing a team. Managing your players or getting the proven players back to previous production. It's more like a day to day call of curiosity. Coaches and FOs that operate that way would be out of jobs and have a terrible reputation.

As for front office. Feel we are seeing some benefits of multiple wings. Rose just got hurt again. Grimes was hurt. Cam is hurt and EF, IQ and RJ were struggling. Agree that some changes will have to be made. But I am sure the FOnis aware of that and will look to improve the clog and parts that don't compliment each other.

Not bent backwards. Just disagree with literally everything you said about who you think should be playing or how Thibs has held anyone back. But it's your opinion. Mine is that most of your statements are based on things that have yet to happen. Ie, Deuce has more impact. Or that Sums is better than MR.

Grimes has not been healthy for three weeks. Btw, did Grimes get pushed to the back last year? He earned the chance and played really well. Cam got a chance, played well and pushed EF to the bench?
Thibs not so stubborn.

Just don't see how you think a team should be coached/managed?
Sit FAs/Starters after 10 games of lack luster production?
Give G league guys time despite more tenured proven players on the roster?
Bench a 3 pick you just extended cuz he is struggling? Not exactly great development.

Seems to me like most of your take is knee jerk armchair stuff. Takes nothing into account regarding managing a team. Managing your players or getting the proven players back to previous production. It's more like a day to day call of curiosity. Coaches and FOs that operate that way would be out of jobs and have a terrible reputation.

As for front office. Feel we are seeing some benefits of multiple wings. Rose just got hurt again. Grimes was hurt. Cam is hurt and EF, IQ and RJ were struggling. Agree that some changes will have to be made. But I am sure the FOnis aware of that and will look to improve the clog and parts that don't compliment each other.

So Hofstra, I see your problem. Looks like you've been following me for a while, which is flattering. Your reply include over 3 years of stuff I've said. I can pull stuff from last week that probably not true today. I might be old, but I'm not old and stuck in my ways like your buddy Thibs. When I'm wrong I admit and move on. But you seem to hold onto stuff way too long. Longer than what I'm holding onto, but I'll play good reply guy and just highlight what I'm responding to.

Disagree with everything? Really everything? wow that's a very generic, overblown and simply not true statement, so I'll move on to some facts that you said and not the overblown fluff.

Who I think should be playing? The yoots. If I was the coach, who do I think should be playing? I would start with the top earners, then work my way down the political ladder. The NBA is very political and Thibs is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Developing Talent, whisperering in Randles ear and making sure all the top paid vets are getting a fare chance (why EF was the starter for so long). Plus Vets earn the right to have playing time over the yoots. Hope that clears things up for you. Fans perspective and Coaches perspective are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Depending on which mind frame I'm in and the discussion topic, you might read something different each time (I'm a fan and a coach).

As a fan, I want all my fan favorite players to play because I believe they impact winning. Yes that includes Deuce. As well as Grimes whos my favorite 2 way from draft day. But Deuce is working on his offense and will come along soon. My argument for the 1000x (last years discussion), Thibs sat Kemba after 10 games not me. My take is, I disagree with sitting Kemba that early in the season (direct conflict with the bolded above). This is the mixing of facts and what you hear from years ago. But that's ok, I will get you caught up. Thibs not only sat Kemba too early, but removed him completely (I disagree with that). That's a Thibs error to me not mine, because at some point Thigs brought him back into the rotation. What I said next was next PG up. And Deuce was the next PG on the roster (Rose was hurt). But I also said IQ was the more senior guard by 1 year and he was groomed to be a PG. So IQ or Deuce should've taken Kemba spot not Burks (a SG / SF and a finisher). Burks was out Jordan in the 4th, not our playmaker. We needed Burks to score not pass.

Bench a 3 pick you extended cuz he's struggling? 1. No idea who you talking about. 2. Seems like Thibs does this a lot, but you voicing your attention on me? I'm a little lost with that comment. But do I agree with benching EF, yes....in case you care. Should you bench a guy for struggling? EF to me was not struggling on defense, he simply can not play defense. His struggle was on offense, which is why he was paid. But in general I believe you give the players some grace, especially a hard worker like RJ who's your future. EF was a stop gap. But I'm not the one who created a bench RJ thread, so I guess that answers your question and also why I'm confused with this comment. RJ is struggling harder than anybody I know. But the first thing out my mouth is not bench RJ. It's maybe RJ is sick and doesn't have his legs yet. Case in point, RJ killed it last game.

Most of my take is knee jerk armchair stuff (lmao). OK I guess the only difference is I have an armchair and you don't? Are you on the sideline next to Thibs or whispering sweet nothings in Randles ear? NO. You are sitting in the same chair I'm sitting in, and having knee jerk discussions just like every single knick fan. So I don't get the knee jerk comments. But there are some that have knee jerk reactions, comments. And guess what, I'll give you a hint. They create the most threads in this forum. Now that's classic knee jerking. I don't see the correlation there, but you have your own opinion. I like making long term decisions. Knee jerk reactions is what this FO of the past has been doing for a long time. Unless your a new fan, you should know this already. So don't get the knee jerking stuff, but that's your opinion.

Last comment on the FO. It's pretty simple and this is where we are different. You have faith in the FO because its the FO and they know better. You probably have the same blind faith in all coaches or whatever title people have. That's a fundamental difference between me and you which will never be resolved. I have zero faith in people with titles, unless proven wrong. Coaches, FO, or Cops. I could give a rats azz what your title is or experience. Another example are mechanics. Some give their keys and say they the expert so I trust them. THATS NOT ME. I'm standing over the mechanic the entire time. I'm pointing out stuff I see that he doesn't see. I've worked in manufacturing and as a rookie I challenged all the senior employees and they hated me. 3 years later I'm getting awards and they are retiring. The point is you and I are different when it comes to people in charge of anything. Nothing wrong or right about it. We just different. And Thibs has his flaws. The FO have their flaws. Both are doing things right and some things wrong. That's human nature.

Overall, I definitely disagree with your recent take on a lot of things. But I'm not going to call you out on something thats opinion base. If we had an actual discussion and not a reply to text once a week, you will see we probably align on more things than you think. But I enjoy having a different perspective than most. I hate following the crowed.

For example, Thibs is a defensive coach. He knows defense better than anybody. That's great but the all mighty Thibs has SUCKED on defense and his defensive scheme. I could give a rats azz that Thibs has more NBA coaching experience than I will ever have at the NBA level. And I will still say to you and him, Thibs has not met my expectations as a defensive old school coach. But it's also an example of the flaws of the FO, for not providing Thibs the defensive players who wants or needs to exceed. I expect the FO to know this, but the results doesn't align with my expectations.

Recently (just to bring you back to the current), Thibs was forced into a tight rotation after all the home blowouts and now injuries. Thibs is at his best with shorter rotations, yet the FO gives Thibs a deep team full of roll players. Thigs need a tight rotation of stars, sprinkle in a few yoots. But injuries are helping Thibs rotation (in my opinion) and now Grimes and others (including Deuce) are getting great DEVELOPMENTAL minutes. Deuce cant develop sitting on the bench. Cant see what Cam can do sitting on the bench. Now we are seeing the benefit of Grimes when he gets starter minutes. The pressure is NOW back on Thibs to figure this out and the FO to help Thibs by clearing the glut at multiple positions.

GustavBahler wrote:Still would like to see Grimes as backup PG. Rose will likely be gone. McBride doesnt look like the answer at backup PG. But that could change with PT. Believe Grimes is a better fit.

Traditionally the starting SG gets buckets, lots of them. Maybe does some playmaking as well. I dont believe Grimes strength will be lighting up the scoreboard on a regular basis. Believe Grimes would make a better playmaker, occasional scoring threat, than a consistent scoring threat.

If Brunson is having a bad game defensively, you can plug Grimes right in, and keep your shooter on the court, whoever that may be.

Don't hold your breath, cause he ain't that type of guy. He is a passing SG and well rounded player who can also put ball on floor. He isn't the type to ask to run and manage team. Big difference.

Knicks also have McBride, IQ, and Rokas in wings for bench PG.

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Still would like to see Grimes as backup PG. Rose will likely be gone. McBride doesnt look like the answer at backup PG. But that could change with PT. Believe Grimes is a better fit.

Traditionally the starting SG gets buckets, lots of them. Maybe does some playmaking as well. I dont believe Grimes strength will be lighting up the scoreboard on a regular basis. Believe Grimes would make a better playmaker, occasional scoring threat, than a consistent scoring threat.

If Brunson is having a bad game defensively, you can plug Grimes right in, and keep your shooter on the court, whoever that may be.

Don't hold your breath, cause he ain't that type of guy. He is a passing SG and well rounded player who can also put ball on floor. He isn't the type to ask to run and manage team. Big difference.

Knicks also have McBride, IQ, and Rokas in wings for bench PG.

Says you

All shooting guards pass to some degree. The question is wether or not Grimes can drop around 20 ppg as a starter every night. Thats something I wouldnt hold my breath waiting on. Ive seen him do a good job of driving and dishing keeping the ball moving. Knocking down the occasional 3. Not a scoring machine, which is what you want from your SG most of the time.

We dont need a "passing SG" as much as we need a scoring SG. Quickley is much better suited to be in the "scoring SG" role than Grimes. Because he's a better scorer, and made strides this season getting to the rim. If RJ is out of the picture. Which remains to be seen.

The others will likely be gone in the next season.

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Still would like to see Grimes as backup PG. Rose will likely be gone. McBride doesnt look like the answer at backup PG. But that could change with PT. Believe Grimes is a better fit.

Traditionally the starting SG gets buckets, lots of them. Maybe does some playmaking as well. I dont believe Grimes strength will be lighting up the scoreboard on a regular basis. Believe Grimes would make a better playmaker, occasional scoring threat, than a consistent scoring threat.

If Brunson is having a bad game defensively, you can plug Grimes right in, and keep your shooter on the court, whoever that may be.

Don't hold your breath, cause he ain't that type of guy. He is a passing SG and well rounded player who can also put ball on floor. He isn't the type to ask to run and manage team. Big difference.

Knicks also have McBride, IQ, and Rokas in wings for bench PG.

Says you

All shooting guards pass to some degree. The question is wether or not Grimes can drop around 20 ppg as a starter every night. Thats something I wouldnt hold my breath waiting on. Ive seen him do a good job of driving and dishing keeping the ball moving. Knocking down the occasional 3. Not a scoring machine, which is what you want from your SG most of the time.

We dont need a "passing SG" as much as we need a scoring SG. Quickley is much better suited to be in the "passing SG" role than Grimes. Because he's a better scorer, and made strides this season getting to the rim. If RJ is out of the picture. Which remains to be seen.

The others will likely be gone in the next season.

I mean, go ahead and hold your breath and see what unfolds. I'm gonna breathe easy over here knowing Grimes will never be a PG in the NBA.

Wow "never" thats pretty final. Sorry Grimes!