blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:47 wins if D. Rose doesnt miss a lot of games.

That is a tough call. I’m sure he will get injured and that is Thibs go to guy without Rose, Thibs isn’t very good coach.

one of the best coaches in the league. Literally

Talk about over exaggeration on both sides. For the record, I disagree with both of you. cheers 🍻 to a good season of finger pointing and fan gloating. I agree that we should make this thread a sticky. I’m sure some of our take will sound silly to outrageous near mid season. Let me hang my azz and announce My Pessimistic Predictions.

1. Fans and media pressure will force the FO to trade Randle mid season.
2. Fournier will come off the bench due to lack of defense by both JB and EF. (Similar to Kemba and EF debacle) This time Thibs will learn his lesson and not treat EF like he did Kemba, but instead just move EF to bench instead of removing him from the team. 🤦‍♂️
3. Thibs will be on the hot seat all season for his rotations and not holding Randle accountable. 😡
4. Cams trade request will be officially leaked and he will be traded mid season. 👋
5. Rose will be forced to retire due to injuries. 🤕
6. DMitch will lead the cavs to the finals resulting in FO being on hot seat. 🔥
7. Sell the team message to Dolan will be a main stream topic across all social media platforms. 🐣
8. Knicks barely miss the playoffs or playin. 😞
9. Knicks fall one spot short of drafting a future star. 😤

I’m learning from Briggs. Just mention all the possible scenarios so I can reply with a bunch of “I told you so” threads.

2 years ago Thibs took over the Fizdale dumpster fire and we have been 78-76 under since.

My favorite is the "cant wait to get rid of Thibs to play the kids who look so good and ready to play having been coached by Thibs" crowd. Its a circle wank with no finish

Knicks will feast on the NBA weak this year... something they couldnt do last year and did the year before. Our bench and defense should ensure that. That's there the 45 wins are coming from. I think a few more but I have seen 45 in some media spots (ESPN for one)

gradyandrew wrote:Martin, can we sticky this thread so we can up the gloating and trash talking throughout the season? I can't wait for some of my predictions to fail epicly and be reminded of my lack of expertise all season long.

We do get about 3+ pinned threads through the year and I don't like to congest that too much. It'll pop up, don't you worry.

Nalod wrote:The "Fire Thibs" crowd offers no insight to what Johnny Bryant will do differently other than play the rookies.

Hahn said it best that the Kids have to beat the vets. WE make assumptions that if the vets suck then why not suck with the yoot and at least they get more time.

FO on the hot seat because? Fans are frustrated? So what does leon or next dude do? over pay for a star?
WE did not do it this summer and we applauded that.

I don't think we need to replace Thibs. I do hope Bryant is next in line though when Thibs retires. The attractiveness of Bryant is tied to two things. His track record with players like Lillard and Mitchell. But more presently, his energy and awareness during games. His passion for coaching is readily apparent and something I encourage. Add that to the idea that he was an important factor in the development of two current top twenty players and I think you have a coaching prospect.

I do think the Knicks offense needs a jolt. Specifically from the coaching side. I think the offense is using outdated concepts that result in a lower eFG than our opponents.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/four-factors?dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

The relationship between eFG and wins is pretty evident. Teams like Memphis and Toronto look likely to fall off of their win totals.

My point is that we shouldn't look at this in terms of youths and vets.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

Shot selection needs to change. The two players with the lowest eFG on our team are the guys with the highest usage. Maybe Brunson takes some pressure off them. Worth waiting see the Brunson effect.

The biggest change we need is for Barrett and Randle to take less bad shots. I don't know if that's players (be better), coaching (run different plays) or FO (don't overpay for low eFG), but its the thing that needs to change on this team.

In terms of playing the youth, if we are going to suck, we should at least try sucking differently.

Check the team eFG post all star break:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

This is the argument for playing the other guys.

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:The "Fire Thibs" crowd offers no insight to what Johnny Bryant will do differently other than play the rookies.

Hahn said it best that the Kids have to beat the vets. WE make assumptions that if the vets suck then why not suck with the yoot and at least they get more time.

FO on the hot seat because? Fans are frustrated? So what does leon or next dude do? over pay for a star?
WE did not do it this summer and we applauded that.

I don't think we need to replace Thibs. I do hope Bryant is next in line though when Thibs retires. The attractiveness of Bryant is tied to two things. His track record with players like Lillard and Mitchell. But more presently, his energy and awareness during games. His passion for coaching is readily apparent and something I encourage. Add that to the idea that he was an important factor in the development of two current top twenty players and I think you have a coaching prospect.

I do think the Knicks offense needs a jolt. Specifically from the coaching side. I think the offense is using outdated concepts that result in a lower eFG than our opponents.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/four-factors?dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

The relationship between eFG and wins is pretty evident. Teams like Memphis and Toronto look likely to fall off of their win totals.

My point is that we shouldn't look at this in terms of youths and vets.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

Shot selection needs to change. The two players with the lowest eFG on our team are the guys with the highest usage. Maybe Brunson takes some pressure off them. Worth waiting see the Brunson effect.

The biggest change we need is for Barrett and Randle to take less bad shots. I don't know if that's players (be better), coaching (run different plays) or FO (don't overpay for low eFG), but its the thing that needs to change on this team.

In terms of playing the youth, if we are going to suck, we should at least try sucking differently.

Check the team eFG post all star break:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

This is the argument for playing the other guys.

Think many don't get it. We did not hire Rose/Thibs to suck and "just play the yoot"!

And....you do not fire Thibs because you think another coach could make this team play better. They won't. We may not have the talent yet to do so. Thibs was so good, he made the talent over achieve in 20/21.
You also do not fire Thibs because you want a different offense. NBA offenses are all pretty much the same. The NBA is an ISO, PnR, star oriented league. The idea fans have that someone can come in and put in a whole bunch of fancy new offensive plays, in which every player touches the ball twice each possession, is short sighted and lacks reality of what the NBA really is. Fact is, In the NBA, it's about how good your best players are. My favorite schemes are the Curry scheme. Greek Freak scheme. And the Luca scheme. Their coaches are geniuses the way they came up with them. And btw, what ever happened to "we need Defensive coach"??

The only reason that we should fire Thibs is because, as an organization, the Knicks are making a commitment to rebuilding. Then you would bring in Bryant, hire a young GM and immediately trade all your players. Ie. Jazz. As that is the best way to establish a new system and get the players to buy in. But I think everyone here knows the Knicks ownership is not willing to do that.
Nor can anyone here guarantee that after several years of rebuilding, we would be any better than what we are today. Many teams have shown that a lot of domino's have to fall in place in order to get to the ultimate goal. The NBA is littered with failed rebuilds.

The Knicks have sckd for 18.5 of the last 20 years --vets dont guarantee winning.also if im a new regime id better hope that some of my rookies become good rotation players.

BRIGGS wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:The "Fire Thibs" crowd offers no insight to what Johnny Bryant will do differently other than play the rookies.

Hahn said it best that the Kids have to beat the vets. WE make assumptions that if the vets suck then why not suck with the yoot and at least they get more time.

FO on the hot seat because? Fans are frustrated? So what does leon or next dude do? over pay for a star?
WE did not do it this summer and we applauded that.

I don't think we need to replace Thibs. I do hope Bryant is next in line though when Thibs retires. The attractiveness of Bryant is tied to two things. His track record with players like Lillard and Mitchell. But more presently, his energy and awareness during games. His passion for coaching is readily apparent and something I encourage. Add that to the idea that he was an important factor in the development of two current top twenty players and I think you have a coaching prospect.

I do think the Knicks offense needs a jolt. Specifically from the coaching side. I think the offense is using outdated concepts that result in a lower eFG than our opponents.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/four-factors?dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

The relationship between eFG and wins is pretty evident. Teams like Memphis and Toronto look likely to fall off of their win totals.

My point is that we shouldn't look at this in terms of youths and vets.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

Shot selection needs to change. The two players with the lowest eFG on our team are the guys with the highest usage. Maybe Brunson takes some pressure off them. Worth waiting see the Brunson effect.

The biggest change we need is for Barrett and Randle to take less bad shots. I don't know if that's players (be better), coaching (run different plays) or FO (don't overpay for low eFG), but its the thing that needs to change on this team.

In terms of playing the youth, if we are going to suck, we should at least try sucking differently.

Check the team eFG post all star break:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

This is the argument for playing the other guys.

Think many don't get it. We did not hire Rose/Thibs to suck and "just play the yoot"!

And....you do not fire Thibs because you think another coach could make this team play better. They won't. We may not have the talent yet to do so. Thibs was so good, he made the talent over achieve in 20/21.
You also do not fire Thibs because you want a different offense. NBA offenses are all pretty much the same. The NBA is an ISO, PnR, star oriented league. The idea fans have that someone can come in and put in a whole bunch of fancy new offensive plays, in which every player touches the ball twice each possession, is short sighted and lacks reality of what the NBA really is. Fact is, In the NBA, it's about how good your best players are. My favorite schemes are the Curry scheme. Greek Freak scheme. And the Luca scheme. Their coaches are geniuses the way they came up with them. And btw, what ever happened to "we need Defensive coach"??

The only reason that we should fire Thibs is because, as an organization, the Knicks are making a commitment to rebuilding. Then you would bring in Bryant, hire a young GM and immediately trade all your players. Ie. Jazz. As that is the best way to establish a new system and get the players to buy in. But I think everyone here knows the Knicks ownership is not willing to do that.
Nor can anyone here guarantee that after several years of rebuilding, we would be any better than what we are today. Many teams have shown that a lot of domino's have to fall in place in order to get to the ultimate goal. The NBA is littered with failed rebuilds.

The Knicks have sckd for 18.5 of the last 20 years --vets dont guarantee winning.also if im a new regime id better hope that some of my rookies become good rotation players.

If only we had....

BRIGGS wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:The "Fire Thibs" crowd offers no insight to what Johnny Bryant will do differently other than play the rookies.

Hahn said it best that the Kids have to beat the vets. WE make assumptions that if the vets suck then why not suck with the yoot and at least they get more time.

FO on the hot seat because? Fans are frustrated? So what does leon or next dude do? over pay for a star?
WE did not do it this summer and we applauded that.

I don't think we need to replace Thibs. I do hope Bryant is next in line though when Thibs retires. The attractiveness of Bryant is tied to two things. His track record with players like Lillard and Mitchell. But more presently, his energy and awareness during games. His passion for coaching is readily apparent and something I encourage. Add that to the idea that he was an important factor in the development of two current top twenty players and I think you have a coaching prospect.

I do think the Knicks offense needs a jolt. Specifically from the coaching side. I think the offense is using outdated concepts that result in a lower eFG than our opponents.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/four-factors?dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

The relationship between eFG and wins is pretty evident. Teams like Memphis and Toronto look likely to fall off of their win totals.

My point is that we shouldn't look at this in terms of youths and vets.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

Shot selection needs to change. The two players with the lowest eFG on our team are the guys with the highest usage. Maybe Brunson takes some pressure off them. Worth waiting see the Brunson effect.

The biggest change we need is for Barrett and Randle to take less bad shots. I don't know if that's players (be better), coaching (run different plays) or FO (don't overpay for low eFG), but its the thing that needs to change on this team.

In terms of playing the youth, if we are going to suck, we should at least try sucking differently.

Check the team eFG post all star break:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=MIN*GE*15&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=A&sort=EFG_PCT

This is the argument for playing the other guys.

Think many don't get it. We did not hire Rose/Thibs to suck and "just play the yoot"!

And....you do not fire Thibs because you think another coach could make this team play better. They won't. We may not have the talent yet to do so. Thibs was so good, he made the talent over achieve in 20/21.
You also do not fire Thibs because you want a different offense. NBA offenses are all pretty much the same. The NBA is an ISO, PnR, star oriented league. The idea fans have that someone can come in and put in a whole bunch of fancy new offensive plays, in which every player touches the ball twice each possession, is short sighted and lacks reality of what the NBA really is. Fact is, In the NBA, it's about how good your best players are. My favorite schemes are the Curry scheme. Greek Freak scheme. And the Luca scheme. Their coaches are geniuses the way they came up with them. And btw, what ever happened to "we need Defensive coach"??

The only reason that we should fire Thibs is because, as an organization, the Knicks are making a commitment to rebuilding. Then you would bring in Bryant, hire a young GM and immediately trade all your players. Ie. Jazz. As that is the best way to establish a new system and get the players to buy in. But I think everyone here knows the Knicks ownership is not willing to do that.
Nor can anyone here guarantee that after several years of rebuilding, we would be any better than what we are today. Many teams have shown that a lot of domino's have to fall in place in order to get to the ultimate goal. The NBA is littered with failed rebuilds.

The Knicks have sckd for 18.5 of the last 20 years --vets dont guarantee winning.also if im a new regime id better hope that some of my rookies become good rotation players.

True. As have many rebuilding franchises. Think we can agree it is not an easy undertaking regardless of path chosen. Imho, it's easy to throw out the "let's rebuild" phrase. Insinuating that it is guaranteed to bring us to a better level. I think either path requires getting that generational talent. Rather "talents" in today's NBA. Rebuilding does not guarantee you are drafting a Greek Freak or Curry. Many of the teams that rebuilt eventually need a generational talent in order to reach the ultimate goal. Raptors developed a good young core. Did nothing with it until they traded for one of the best players in the world. Can be argued any decent team would have had similar success if they had traded for Kawhi. Many talk of how well Riley built his teams and drafted well. Adding Shaq was not exactly rebuilding with the draft. Adding LBJ, Bosh was not either. As mentioned, many teams have been in rebuilding limbo for over a decade. Some for almost two.

Now are you saying we have not been rebuilding? We have not exactly been trading all of our draft picks for 30 plus vets the last few years. We added Randle who was what 23? We start MR, RJ, who we drafted. We have Obi, IQ, Grimes Sims making up our second unit last year. We just added pretty young pieces in JB and Hart. Think this may be what a good rebuild looks like. Maybe we just now need that "generational" player. Thought DM was it but the price was too high.

Imo, if you feel it is time to rebuild THIS team, feel impatient with our good young addition, want to fire a generational coach building culture and not willing to wait to add the right generational talent (and willing to give up considerable assets when that time comes) then you should not be advocating a "proper rebuild".
Think we are in the middle of a rebuild and that the FO has done a good job doing so. Not having a real PG, last year, may have made it difficult for some to see that.

Reminds me of Pulp Fiction: F*@k pride... Pride only hurts, it never helps.
Knicks should approach the game more like a business.

GustavBahler wrote:Knicks have been run like a business for decades, that couldnt see past the next quarter. There was no such thing as long term thinking. Thats changed over the last 4 years or so. Not going for the quick fix, stockpiling draft picks. Keeping cap flexibility. Developing, and re signing draft picks.

Knicks now look like a well run business, thats close to paying dividends.

nyvector16 wrote:We are well underway of a rebuild in both culture and personnel.
Where Knicks fail and other franchises thrive is knowing when to pack it in midway through the season.
If you are a bottom dweller at game 41, do what GoldenState does, sit your top guys and straight tank.
Years where you are competitive you play out the whole season, but in years where you are not or there are significant injuries... just hang it up and play the lottery odds.

Reminds me of Pulp Fiction: F*@k pride... Pride only hurts, it never helps.
Knicks should approach the game more like a business.

I’d go with a time period of this FO but agree with your sentiments, especially the bolded.

It blows my mind that there would be some type of thought process that either Thibs or FO would be let go soon.