martin wrote:

Clean wrote:People rely too much on numbers and not how the team flows. All of Obi's points come in the flow of the offense or in transition. Fans should hold both of those aspects of his game in high regard because of how we hated ISO Melo and ISO Randle. I would also like to point out we are constantly the worst fast breaking team every single year. Do you understand how much more worse we would be without Obi? Obi averages something like 19pts and 6rebs in games Randle does not play. The problem with him is his game relies too much on his team to find him on leak outs and cuts. Which is why once Quick figured out how to play PG Obi's game exploded. How many of Quicks assists were on cuts and leak outs to Obi? With Rose, Brunson, Hart(Passing/Shooting) and PG capable Quick if given enough time this should be a good year for Obi.

In fact, I'll take your sentiments one step further. With Brunson, PG-capable IQ, Rose and Hart out there, the whole team will flourish because of this type of passing and break down ability.

I think it'll take the ball out of RJ and Randle's hands significantly; they will still be higher usage players but you will see them without the ball more than the past.

The 2nd unit will be even more potent than in years past with Hart, perhaps in the high post, Obi, Rose, IQ and Grimes. 3 really good passers, 2 tremendous finishers and a long range sniper...

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:People rely too much on numbers and not how the team flows. All of Obi's points come in the flow of the offense or in transition. Fans should hold both of those aspects of his game in high regard because of how we hated ISO Melo and ISO Randle. I would also like to point out we are constantly the worst fast breaking team every single year. Do you understand how much more worse we would be without Obi? Obi averages something like 19pts and 6rebs in games Randle does not play. The problem with him is his game relies too much on his team to find him on leak outs and cuts. Which is why once Quick figured out how to play PG Obi's game exploded. How many of Quicks assists were on cuts and leak outs to Obi? With Rose, Brunson, Hart(Passing/Shooting) and PG capable Quick if given enough time this should be a good year for Obi.

In fact, I'll take your sentiments one step further. With Brunson, PG-capable IQ, Rose and Hart out there, the whole team will flourish because of this type of passing and break down ability.

I think it'll take the ball out of RJ and Randle's hands significantly; they will still be higher usage players but you will see them without the ball more than the past.

The 2nd unit will be even more potent than in years past with Hart, perhaps in the high post, Obi, Rose, IQ and Grimes. 3 really good passers, 2 tremendous finishers and long range sniper...

100%

I think Hart will have a few growing pains for the first few months but will be a HUGE revelation once he gets flowing. He is literally on the perfect opportunity team with the Knicks and Thibs IMHO.

All those missed passes and shots and games ala Noel are the thing of the past.

Dude is gonna bring it. He is a hidden jem version of Joakim Noah IMHO

Philc1 wrote:

Rookie wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:
Club option next season and a QO of $9M the year after. Time flies and the FO will have to decide to crap or get off the pot. As for Obi's advanced stats compared to Randle's at the same point in their careers... trust me, you really don't want to make comparison. And if you really want to keep it 100, Randle's didn't really distinguish himself that much over Obi with his advanced stats last season. Now, can Obi continue on that pace with starters minutes? Don't know, but the Knicks need to find out. Again, I've seen enough from Randle to confidently say that he probably isn't the answer. Now could he have another fluke season? Anything is possible. But is he likely to have another fluke season? Imma say no.

Are you confident he probably isn't the answer, or probably confident he is? Why not just say so either way so we can be confident that you probably are wrong?

Guess what- Randle also had a positive +/- when sharing time with IQ. I think it's clear that Obi and Randle are different players. I'm happy to see if adding Brunson is the missing piece to the Knicks becoming a good team again. If it makes you happier to expect them to fail, I'm confident you will probably have something to complain about all season.

My concern is that Randle wants to be the Alpha dog and control the ball. We now have a legit PG in Brunson, and Barrett also wants the leadership role and is another inefficient volume shooter. Last years Randle did not handle sharing his role and rewarded us with pouting, tantrums and disinterested play. It's almost as if Randle wanted the team to fail so he could say I told you so. RJ also wants to be the man and make an Allstar team or all NBA. I hope they address this in the preseason and Randle can mature a little. There can be only 1 Alpha. Players need their roles made clear. It shouldn't take long to see if we are going forward as a team or if we have a couple players playing me ball.

Careful. You may get labeled a troll for citing basic facts

Rookie cited his opinion. You get trolled for making **** up.
You don’t get “trolled”, you get corrected.

technomaster wrote:I was looking at the Knicks roster and we are lacking a bully wing defender. Our centers should be about as good as any team at covering for mistakes. I reckon we had Bullock in that role 2 years ago - and Elfrid had a reputation, as a good pickpocket.

We have enough players that can be part of the team concept, but there’s no disruptor.

I reckon our best bets are Grimes earning minutes (he looks good and talks a good game, but there’s a bit to prove) and RJ continuing his development (though we need him to be a star on offense too!).

Cam could be a possibility, though I’ve seen so little of him that I don’t know if he can develop the intensity and aggression.

Other options - Trevor Keels looks to have the frame and the tools, but as a young rookie things have to go really wrong for him to get the opportunity and really right for him to be NBA ready. McBride was great in G-League and looks NBA ready on D for PG but seems small or simply not all-world defensively like Smart.

Cam can be a significantly better bullock at both ends. If Thibs let’s him

Philc1 wrote:

technomaster wrote:I was looking at the Knicks roster and we are lacking a bully wing defender. Our centers should be about as good as any team at covering for mistakes. I reckon we had Bullock in that role 2 years ago - and Elfrid had a reputation, as a good pickpocket.

We have enough players that can be part of the team concept, but there’s no disruptor.

I reckon our best bets are Grimes earning minutes (he looks good and talks a good game, but there’s a bit to prove) and RJ continuing his development (though we need him to be a star on offense too!).

Cam could be a possibility, though I’ve seen so little of him that I don’t know if he can develop the intensity and aggression.

Other options - Trevor Keels looks to have the frame and the tools, but as a young rookie things have to go really wrong for him to get the opportunity and really right for him to be NBA ready. McBride was great in G-League and looks NBA ready on D for PG but seems small or simply not all-world defensively like Smart.

Cam can be a significantly better bullock at both ends. If Thibs let’s him

Cam... I'm not sure what he's capable of defensively. He's got the right height and length to be awesome (then again, so was Kevin Knox). But he's had a history of ankle and achilles injuries - and those tend to sap explosion and defensive change of direction.

Looking at the DRating metric on statmuse, it seems like good NBA defenders get a score of 110 or lower, and the the best toe the line of around 100.

Reddish is at ~114 for his career. Bullock was 111 for his career.

Crowder: 107.2

To put into context, some elite defenders:
Paul George: 102.9
Kawhi Leonard: 101.0

Nalod wrote:

technomaster wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

technomaster wrote:I was looking at the Knicks roster and we are lacking a bully wing defender. Our centers should be about as good as any team at covering for mistakes. I reckon we had Bullock in that role 2 years ago - and Elfrid had a reputation, as a good pickpocket.

We have enough players that can be part of the team concept, but there’s no disruptor.

I reckon our best bets are Grimes earning minutes (he looks good and talks a good game, but there’s a bit to prove) and RJ continuing his development (though we need him to be a star on offense too!).

Cam could be a possibility, though I’ve seen so little of him that I don’t know if he can develop the intensity and aggression.

Other options - Trevor Keels looks to have the frame and the tools, but as a young rookie things have to go really wrong for him to get the opportunity and really right for him to be NBA ready. McBride was great in G-League and looks NBA ready on D for PG but seems small or simply not all-world defensively like Smart.

Cam can be a significantly better bullock at both ends. If Thibs let’s him

Cam... I'm not sure what he's capable of defensively. He's got the right height and length to be awesome (then again, so was Kevin Knox). But he's had a history of ankle and achilles injuries - and those tend to sap explosion and defensive change of direction.

Looking at the DRating metric on statmuse, it seems like good NBA defenders get a score of 110 or lower, and the the best toe the line of around 100.

Reddish is at ~114 for his career. Bullock was 111 for his career.

Crowder: 107.2

To put into context, some elite defenders:
Paul George: 102.9
Kawhi Leonard: 101.0

Tech,

can you link that stat. I pulled this down and its confusing:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/2022-nba-players-defensive-rating-rankings

I get where Rudy would be top at 103.2 for the past season. Kawhi is not there because he did not play. PG13 is not either.
But im baffled to were and why Jordan Poole but can see playing in GSW. Draymond is not as he played on only 45 games, and did not meet the minutes threashold.
Im laughing cuz Randle is on the list at number 18.
Mikal Bridges is 19th.
I thought "Randle sucks" at defense based the chants of his tormenters here?

Yeah and Luka has a DRating that's even higher. I don't really f with that stat because it clearly has its limitations.

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

technomaster wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

technomaster wrote:I was looking at the Knicks roster and we are lacking a bully wing defender. Our centers should be about as good as any team at covering for mistakes. I reckon we had Bullock in that role 2 years ago - and Elfrid had a reputation, as a good pickpocket.

We have enough players that can be part of the team concept, but there’s no disruptor.

I reckon our best bets are Grimes earning minutes (he looks good and talks a good game, but there’s a bit to prove) and RJ continuing his development (though we need him to be a star on offense too!).

Cam could be a possibility, though I’ve seen so little of him that I don’t know if he can develop the intensity and aggression.

Other options - Trevor Keels looks to have the frame and the tools, but as a young rookie things have to go really wrong for him to get the opportunity and really right for him to be NBA ready. McBride was great in G-League and looks NBA ready on D for PG but seems small or simply not all-world defensively like Smart.

Cam can be a significantly better bullock at both ends. If Thibs let’s him

Cam... I'm not sure what he's capable of defensively. He's got the right height and length to be awesome (then again, so was Kevin Knox). But he's had a history of ankle and achilles injuries - and those tend to sap explosion and defensive change of direction.

Looking at the DRating metric on statmuse, it seems like good NBA defenders get a score of 110 or lower, and the the best toe the line of around 100.

Reddish is at ~114 for his career. Bullock was 111 for his career.

Crowder: 107.2

To put into context, some elite defenders:
Paul George: 102.9
Kawhi Leonard: 101.0

Tech,

can you link that stat. I pulled this down and its confusing:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/2022-nba-players-defensive-rating-rankings

I get where Rudy would be top at 103.2 for the past season. Kawhi is not there because he did not play. PG13 is not either.
But im baffled to were and why Jordan Poole but can see playing in GSW. Draymond is not as he played on only 45 games, and did not meet the minutes threashold.
Im laughing cuz Randle is on the list at number 18.
Mikal Bridges is 19th.
I thought "Randle sucks" at defense based the chants of his tormenters here?

Yeah and Luka has a DRating that's even higher. I don't really f with that stat because it clearly has its limitations.

sort of... what you see often with players like Luka is their offense is so good it impacts both sides of the ball. Everyone knows Luka isnt stopping you 1-1, BUT there's a clear trend to players not having good nights on offense when playing vs. Luka. THAT is really what that number is saying more than "Luke is a good defender"

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

technomaster wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

technomaster wrote:I was looking at the Knicks roster and we are lacking a bully wing defender. Our centers should be about as good as any team at covering for mistakes. I reckon we had Bullock in that role 2 years ago - and Elfrid had a reputation, as a good pickpocket.

We have enough players that can be part of the team concept, but there’s no disruptor.

I reckon our best bets are Grimes earning minutes (he looks good and talks a good game, but there’s a bit to prove) and RJ continuing his development (though we need him to be a star on offense too!).

Cam could be a possibility, though I’ve seen so little of him that I don’t know if he can develop the intensity and aggression.

Other options - Trevor Keels looks to have the frame and the tools, but as a young rookie things have to go really wrong for him to get the opportunity and really right for him to be NBA ready. McBride was great in G-League and looks NBA ready on D for PG but seems small or simply not all-world defensively like Smart.

Cam can be a significantly better bullock at both ends. If Thibs let’s him

Cam... I'm not sure what he's capable of defensively. He's got the right height and length to be awesome (then again, so was Kevin Knox). But he's had a history of ankle and achilles injuries - and those tend to sap explosion and defensive change of direction.

Looking at the DRating metric on statmuse, it seems like good NBA defenders get a score of 110 or lower, and the the best toe the line of around 100.

Reddish is at ~114 for his career. Bullock was 111 for his career.

Crowder: 107.2

To put into context, some elite defenders:
Paul George: 102.9
Kawhi Leonard: 101.0

Tech,

can you link that stat. I pulled this down and its confusing:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/2022-nba-players-defensive-rating-rankings

I get where Rudy would be top at 103.2 for the past season. Kawhi is not there because he did not play. PG13 is not either.
But im baffled to were and why Jordan Poole but can see playing in GSW. Draymond is not as he played on only 45 games, and did not meet the minutes threashold.
Im laughing cuz Randle is on the list at number 18.
Mikal Bridges is 19th.
I thought "Randle sucks" at defense based the chants of his tormenters here?

Yeah and Luka has a DRating that's even higher. I don't really f with that stat because it clearly has its limitations.

sort of... what you see often with players like Luka is their offense is so good it impacts both sides of the ball. Everyone knows Luka isnt stopping you 1-1, BUT there's a clear trend to players not having good nights on offense when playing vs. Luka. THAT is really what that number is saying more than "Luke is a good defender"

Or the other team is putting their best defender, who may or may not be an offensive threat, on him from night to night. If you're being hounded by Frank Ntilikina on one end, that gives you the luxury to rest on defense as well. You really need tracking numbers to get a feel for how player defends in each scenario. Other than that, no one has really found a way to measure defense numerically.

To see how you do vs. your opponent a good place is here:
http://www.82games.com/2122/21NYK20.HTM
http://www.82games.com/2122/21PHO12.HTM

Crowder hold his opp EFG% to a VERY low #
Randle's actually isnt bad (close to what Bam's is)

Its a really site to delve into this ****
Like how RJ is better at SG:
http://www.82games.com/2021/20NYK9.HTM

Than SF:
http://www.82games.com/2122/21NYK13.HTM