martin wrote:You know what works trade wise?

Lakers get: Fourier, Randle, Rose, Cam.
Knicks get: Westbrook, Nunn, pick?

I was batting this around without Cam and Nunn. I’m not ready to move on from Cam yet. But a deal centered on our three vets to LAL for Westbrook and draft capital makes sense for a lot of reasons.

Hate losing Rose but maybe he comes back in a year if LAL doesn’t pick up his 15mm option.

Ideally, Randle would revert back to all NBA form, and he has the potential to do that. E.g., he likes flipping it in the coner, and Brunson is excellent from the corner. The risk is however that he just doesn't fit in NY when there are fans in the stands

It is a huge decision for FO.

In terms of team I want to see RJ back at that 2, and with Grimes emergence it means we should be getting rid of Fournier (1 too many 2s). Perhaps we move EF and maybe assets to get someone to play the 3. I'd like to think that could be Cam to be honest, but he has to earn that spot, not be given it, and he hasn't earned it yet

BEst case

C Mitch Rob hitting his FTs
PF Randle back to all NBA form
SF Cam -- long and lean -- i told you i can play D and hit 3s and put it on the floor when necessary
SG RJ -- earning his money, and bullying opponents
PG Brunson -- diabolical genius, the straw stirring the drink

Worst case
C Mitch gets hurt
PF Randle from last year
SF --RJ playing out of position, regressing
SG -- EF, or Grimes not ready to start
PG -- ends up i'm only good when Luka is on the team

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:You know what works trade wise?

Lakers get: Fourier, Randle, Rose, Cam.
Knicks get: Westbrook, Nunn, pick?

I was batting this around without Cam and Nunn. I’m not ready to move on from Cam yet. But a deal centered on our three vets to LAL for Westbrook and draft capital makes sense for a lot of reasons.

Hate losing Rose but maybe he comes back in a year if LAL doesn’t pick up his 15mm option.

I love Rose on the team too. But with Brunson, IQ, McBride, and Rokas all in some sort of PG role, I just don't see it.

Thibs is still the coach, if Randle Fournier and Cam are all in the team opening night, i expect the following things to happen:

1. Both Randle and Fournier will start
2. Both Randle and Fournier will average 35+ minutes
3. Cam will be lucky to see the court only during garbage time.

The FO should mandate Thibs to start and play Grimes heavy minutes. What will be painful for the fans to see if a player(Grimes) they refuse to give up in the Mitchell trade will just be a supporting cast for next year's team.

blkexec wrote:

Clean wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/shwinnypooh/status/1565443565248970758

This guy is always on point.

Pressure is on Rose to either remove the vets and clear up minutes for the yoots. BTW I said last year play the yoots to see what you have. We would’ve known if grimes and Obi and IQ was worth holding onto vs letting them go in the D.Mitch trade. Rose needs to wake up. Otherwise he’s setting up Thibs to fail.

Unless the plan is to ride the vets and increase their value for a potential mid season trade? Rose and Thibs are in a tough position now.

Managing reality with media expectations while giving the fans a good product to pay for. Without talking to the media on your post DM trade moves? Tough spot to be in. Not sure how Rose can win with the silent treatment right now.

Look last February trade deadline time, I had advocated consolidating the roster.

Who knows who is on the hot seat but its obvious the Knicks have managed to once again work their way into the middle hell of - not-good-enough-to-ever-win, not-bad-enough-to-lose-at-face-value.

KFTV's, CP Franchise advocates "peeling it back" - play the kids who won't win. Lottery dive yet again. It makes some sense.

Rose has assets but no viable market opportunities. Thibs can huff and puff but there isn't enough in the tank to do anything but disappoint and diminish the team's strongest asset (lottery picks). It's a bad look for him.

I think media exposure will never be positive or charitable until lightning strikes.

The Knicks can give the wizards back their own 2023 pick in the trade. While it’s not likely to convey this year (or ever). It does mean the Wizards would have more freedom to use draft picks in future trades. As well the Mavs 2021 pick which should convey meaning they got a pick for Kuzma. The Knicks could maybe add more of their haul, but considering Kuzma will likely be an expiring he shouldn’t cost them any of their own picks.

Fournier, Wiz 2023 pick, Mavs 2023 pick.

For

Kuzma, Isiah Todd, and Justin Robinson.

The guys coming back beside Kuzma are all end of bench guys though Isiah Todd might develop into more eventually.

Meanwhile Knicks can run a line up of

Brunson/IQ/Rose/Justin Robinson
RJ/Grimes/McBride
Kuzma/Reddish
Randle/Toppin/ Isiah Todd
Mitch/IHart/sims

Its worth mentioning that Kuzma creates some interesting adjustments Thibs can work on because Kuzma has the size needed to help hide Randle on defense. For example let’s put Grimes in that starting line up. (Even if say for 12 minutes a night)

Brunson/IQ
Grimes/RJ
Kuzma/Reddish
Randle/Toppin
Mitch/IHart

That is a legit big 3 pt shooting threat of a starting lineup. Basically giving Thibs the ability to move RJ around the lineup based on matchups. Something they cannot do with the current starting lineup with Fournier. Even if RJ struggles to get touches with Brunson and Randle they cannot take him out the starting lineup because Fournier is not a good wing defender. Kuzma meanwhile is not an elite defender, but is good enough RJ can be given time to play with the bench squad where he could be a focus on the offense.

Lastly with his focus on Fashion, ties to CAA, and ties to Randle I could see Kuzma resigning with the Knicks. Now does this potential team have a superstar? No, what it does have is the ability to be a top three defense for the next few years and more NBA quality depth than any other team in the league. If Thibs plays guys for at most 30 minutes a game, they could wear opposing teams out in the regular season, and still have fresh legs for the playoffs. It also puts Randle back in position to have a good season by giving the Knicks the ability to hide him on defense (so he can focus on offense). Plus Randle has another “friendly” face on the roster to hopefully keep him from being mercurial and disengaged.

Kemet wrote:The Knicks FO has been going in the wrong direction since the first day of the offseason ..
1) no plans on replacing Woodson with a top assistant coach
2) no first round draft pick again
3) only adding one decent PG (Brunson), which mean Brunson, D.Rose, Quickley, and Randle will be given the PG role throughout the upcoming 82 games season.
4) giving individual talent Barrett an extension after Fournier, Burks, Quickley, and even the 2-Way rookie Grimes all showed to be a better SG.
5) waisted 2 months of the offseason dining Ainge for breakfast & lunch

1) There is still time, just because the FO is not announcing anything does not mean a selection process is not on
2) There was no clear cut candidate at the spot where we picked, who the FO thought would be worth committing the rookie contract to at the cost of not having the cap space to sign Brunson.
3) We have one decent starting PG in Brunson and a decent backup PG in IQ. Plus Rose and McBride if need be. What's the problem?
4) RJ is a small forward who can slide to SG. The jury is still out on how good Grimes will be. Way too premature to anoint him as a starting NBA SG, let alone as as star.
5) Anything important happened in those two months that they missed?

I do not really see how your grievances amount to "going in the wrong direction". No one pulled off any miracles, but there were no boneheaded moves either.

Kemet wrote:The Knicks FO has been going in the wrong direction since the first day of the offseason ..
1) no plans on replacing Woodson with a top assistant coach
2) no first round draft pick again
3) only adding one decent PG (Brunson), which mean Brunson, D.Rose, Quickley, and Randle will be given the PG role throughout the upcoming 82 games season.
4) giving individual talent Barrett an extension after Fournier, Burks, Quickley, and even the 2-Way rookie Grimes all showed to be a better SG.
5) waisted 2 months of the offseason dining Ainge for breakfast & lunch

1. Johnny Bryant is a top assistant coach in the NBA. Woodson left in 2021.
2. With more Yoot than time and a very young roster we bought in Brunson. Keels is first round talent and very young to develop.
3. Brunson, with Drose and IQ is really good depth.
4. Barrett is likely a 3 going forward. You not see the last 35 games of the season?
5. Im sorry, did Knicks not give you a consulting job contract? Your time was wasted?

Kem, While I might fart daisies with an optimistic slant I have never read a thing from you that was anything but negative. You have your opinions but you assume nothing good will ever happen.

Fact is this team is in need of a consolidation trade. What and how that happens is no known. So, before judging the roster why not wait before unleashing your misery?

SergioNYK wrote:I think these next few weeks before training camp will be telling. Especially if we go into the season with this roater. We really need to pick a direction and goal for this season. Are we chasing wins or are we developing some of the young guys? We simply cannot have a repeat of last season. Guys like Obi, IQ and Grimes need to play! Really hoping that is the plan because chasing the play-in with Obi still playing 15 mpg, Grimes and IQ behind Fournier and Rose is a wasted season.

Couldn't agree more...

KnickDanger wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Kemet wrote:The Knicks FO has been going in the wrong direction since the first day of the offseason ..
1) no plans on replacing Woodson with a top assistant coach
2) no first round draft pick again
3) only adding one decent PG (Brunson), which mean Brunson, D.Rose, Quickley, and Randle will be given the PG role throughout the upcoming 82 games season.
4) giving individual talent Barrett an extension after Fournier, Burks, Quickley, and even the 2-Way rookie Grimes all showed to be a better SG.
5) waisted 2 months of the offseason dining Ainge for breakfast & lunch

1. Johnny Bryant is a top assistant coach in the NBA. Woodson left in 2021.
2. With more Yoot than time and a very young roster we bought in Brunson. Keels is first round talent and very young to develop.
3. Brunson, with Drose and IQ is really good depth.
4. Barrett is likely a 3 going forward. You not see the last 35 games of the season?
5. Im sorry, did Knicks not give you a consulting job contract? Your time was wasted?

Kem, While I might fart daisies with an optimistic slant I have never read a thing from you that was anything but negative. You have your opinions but you assume nothing good will ever happen.

Fact is this team is in need of a consolidation trade. What and how that happens is no known. So, before judging the roster why not wait before unleashing your misery?

"No first round draft pick again" gives it away. Since we have had multiple first round picks in recent years this is a Trumpian feint (in terms of method, not politics) to forward agenda. Now what that agenda is I can only theorize -- at first I figured it must be an act -- you know, the Stephen A of Ultimate Knicks. But then you read "waisted two months...." But perhaps that is clever subterfuge?

Because we traded our 1st rounders to get rid of Kemba. If Ousmane Dieng blows up...

SergioNYK wrote:I think these next few weeks before training camp will be telling. Especially if we go into the season with this roater. We really need to pick a direction and goal for this season. Are we chasing wins or are we developing some of the young guys? We simply cannot have a repeat of last season. Guys like Obi, IQ and Grimes need to play! Really hoping that is the plan because chasing the play-in with Obi still playing 15 mpg, Grimes and IQ behind Fournier and Rose is a wasted season.

The funny thing is chasing wins would mean playing the young players. Thibs is the one who was blind to seeing that. He said he was ready to change things at the end of the season so lets see if he was telling the truth.