Nalod wrote:

TPercy wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I'm guessing they probably throw Myles Turner in a potential package.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/esidery/status/1528973367679721473

That’s insane

Why? Can you draft a center better than him with that pick? In fact, there is not sure fire draft pick in this draft and its a few years in hindsight before you know if you hit one or not. We love draft picks and assume we can hit it but your drafting a 19 year old and you never know. Talent and injury is a wildcard.

This is why established players come with a premium. Id’d say we under value randle thinking for sure we can replace him with a player who won’t get down on boo’s, not be injury prone, and not a ball stopper.
Its nice to have such thoughts. Easier said than done.
Fans perogative.

Kemet wrote:

Nalod wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Sometimes I think NY Fans = Let's trade anyone who produces but not at the unrealistic rate we dreamt of for a guy who produces less but we can at least start a new unrealistic dream about what he will do here. Can see the hope but it is still a gamble. Why trade for a guy who we will have to Max and who produces less than just one of the two guys you want to include in the package? And you want to add Mitchell? Do you really think if we had Ayton this year without Mitch and Randle, we would have won a playoff round? Not to mention that Ayton is not exactly a great example of "modern NBA" centers. So hard to build a future around him.

Why not trade, our best asset, Randle for pieces that would fill gaps and that replace Randle's level of production instead? Ones that fit a model of what is having success. Or why not trade him for someone that fills your biggest void? Ie PG.

A guy like Ayton just does not move the needle IMHO. Rather stick with Mitch and Randle and figure out PG need. IQ as a starter and a solid backup may be the only thing needed to get us in the playoffs.

Good point. The idea is Ayton was the man in the middle of a 64 win team that was for the most part clicking on all cylinders for most of the season. He opened up things to happen. He is an upgrade to mitch. Im not prescribing that we trade Randle as some are emotionally pleading to. My thinking is how can they enhance each other. But, how do you get Ayton here for just mitch? You can't.
Im not giving away Randle's 20-10 so fast. Not unless he cannot be rehabilitated with an attitude adjustment.
I know Monty Williams can do no wrong but I need to know what happend. We just assume Ayton is to blame and he gave up. Might be accurate. But what happend? How did that occur?
Its a low probability event thus not really worth sweating over.
I'd like to see a 5 here with some offensive capacity than dunks, putbacks, and pick and roll. I like Mitch. Would not bother me a bit to keep him hear at a reasonable cost.

The thing bout Randle's 20-10 performance are they don't win any Knicks games (Another Carmelo having the first option on offense, to take the ball and team-leadership out of the PG hands) ..
Now D.Rose 15-5, plus mentoring-leadership performance as a Closer has won consistent Knicks games.

Replacing MitchRob with Ayton in a Knicks lineup without a decent starter PG (having Randle decision-making on every offensive-possession), Ayton would have the same results as MitchRob. Plus before PG CP3 came to the Suns Ayton FG% were 54, Ayton shot 63% from FG the past two seasons having PG CP3 organizing the offense.

Funny how you are not able to see your own conclusion from your post above.
Conclusion, one 20-10 player is not enough. Agreed. We also need a productive PG with leadership qualities to put up 15-5. Not to mention we also needed players like Bullocks and MR's to play solid defense. Players like RJ and IQ to have decent years. Also funny how you make it seem like Rose's 15-5 would have been enough without Randle's 24-10 and the other contributions mentioned above. A TEAM's success comes from an entire TEAM's roster success. As you did with Melo, you are blaming ONE good player for a team's incompleteness and lack of success.

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:I think it's more likely Ayton goes to either Atl (for Capella and John Collins) or a package involving Anthony Davis.

Davis is fat, injury prone and getting old. That would be a horrible trade for the suns

Maybe so but I could see the Lakers moving on from AD since they love Lebron and Westbrook would require a pick attached. The Suns were high on AD before he joined the Lakers and if healthy (big if) he could help due to his shooting and shot creating.

Think a deal would Atl would be better for both parties.

I think the lakers give it one more shot next season with the team they have. If it doesn’t work they blow it up and let Westbrook’s $47 million come off the books and say bye bye to aging diva Lebron. Phil is in the building and he could care less what the media says

I agree that is what the Lakers should do, it's just that they don't seem to take their lumps from mistakes the way other teams do - they always try shortcuts and to their credit - are usually successful in retooling (compared to us :) Westbrook coming off the books changes everything for the Lakers future.

Having an entering his prime Shaq sign for less money and getting the draft rigged everytime they need to rebuild has helped the lakers

Why is it people say other franchise more attractive than NY because of taxes, but then guys sign in LA & literally pay more in taxes.

Because it’s an overhyped narrative

2/3 of these players are bankrupt within 5 years of leaving the nba and yet somehow people on the internet are lost in enough in their little worlds to think players understand state tax brackets

Bro, your stats seem hate filled. 2/3 of former NBA players are bankrupt within 5 years? Lmao

Sorry it’s only 60% of nba players are bankrupt within 5 years of leaving the league, not 66%

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/05/14/money-lessons-learned-from-pro-athletes-financial-fouls.html

Agree, Turner’s foot injury should scare everyone

Did Mitch Robinsons change anyones perception at the time? Knicks did a "wait and see" and Mitch had his best season. one might take a minority approach to his season and say his inclusion stagnated the offense a bit vs the previous year?
I won't be happy to lose him for nothing in return but if you respect the timeline the knicks were not irresponsible to take a wait and see approach. Detroit need only exceed the 55mil we are locked to give him to get him. I like mitch but I won't whine and cry about him leaving either.

The Knicks losing Mitch for nothing is the next great Dolan Debacle

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:I think it's more likely Ayton goes to either Atl (for Capella and John Collins) or a package involving Anthony Davis.

Davis is fat, injury prone and getting old. That would be a horrible trade for the suns

Maybe so but I could see the Lakers moving on from AD since they love Lebron and Westbrook would require a pick attached. The Suns were high on AD before he joined the Lakers and if healthy (big if) he could help due to his shooting and shot creating.

Think a deal would Atl would be better for both parties.

I think the lakers give it one more shot next season with the team they have. If it doesn’t work they blow it up and let Westbrook’s $47 million come off the books and say bye bye to aging diva Lebron. Phil is in the building and he could care less what the media says

I agree that is what the Lakers should do, it's just that they don't seem to take their lumps from mistakes the way other teams do - they always try shortcuts and to their credit - are usually successful in retooling (compared to us :) Westbrook coming off the books changes everything for the Lakers future.

Having an entering his prime Shaq sign for less money and getting the draft rigged everytime they need to rebuild has helped the lakers

Why is it people say other franchise more attractive than NY because of taxes, but then guys sign in LA & literally pay more in taxes.

Because it’s an overhyped narrative

2/3 of these players are bankrupt within 5 years of leaving the nba and yet somehow people on the internet are lost in enough in their little worlds to think players understand state tax brackets

Bro, your stats seem hate filled. 2/3 of former NBA players are bankrupt within 5 years? Lmao

Sorry it’s only 60% of nba players are bankrupt within 5 years of leaving the league, not 66%

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/05/14/money-lessons-learned-from-pro-athletes-financial-fouls.html

Agree, Turner’s foot injury should scare everyone

Did Mitch Robinsons change anyones perception at the time? Knicks did a "wait and see" and Mitch had his best season. one might take a minority approach to his season and say his inclusion stagnated the offense a bit vs the previous year?
I won't be happy to lose him for nothing in return but if you respect the timeline the knicks were not irresponsible to take a wait and see approach. Detroit need only exceed the 55mil we are locked to give him to get him. I like mitch but I won't whine and cry about him leaving either.

The Knicks losing Mitch for nothing is the next great Dolan Debacle

Stay consistant. Do losing teams that lose a one dimensional player really enter in a debacle?
Do teams ever lose a player for nothing and eventually succeed. Of course they do.
Your just a one dimensional fan who bluts out one liners without thinking.
You think Dolan is in on this decison?

Yeah I guess Mitch is one dimensional the way Rudy Gobert is one dimensional. Way to rationalize getting rid our best draft pick in the past 30 years for nothing

Last year’s Randle extension reeks of Dolan/Isiah meddling

Philc1 wrote:The Knicks losing Mitch for nothing is the next great Dolan Debacle

I fear so will be the re-signing of Mitch for $20m per.

I would not mind if the Knikcs did a sign-and-trade for Mitch rather than losing him for nothing or re-signing him for an excessive sum. Trouble is, teams that have something we want (Indiana with Brogdon or Minny with D'Lo) do not need Mitch. And teams that need Mitch (Portland, Dallas) have nothing to offer in a trade with anyone.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Philc1 wrote:The Knicks losing Mitch for nothing is the next great Dolan Debacle

I fear so will be the re-signing of Mitch for $20m per.

I would not mind if the Knikcs did a sign-and-trade for Mitch rather than losing him for nothing or re-signing him for an excessive sum. Trouble is, teams that have something we want (Indiana with Brogdon or Minny with D'Lo) do not need Mitch. And teams that need Mitch (Portland, Dallas) have nothing to offer in a trade with anyone.

You can never tell what an organization is doing or what their intentions are but the Knicks shopped pretty much their whole roster this past deadline, Mitch included. Sometimes you want to actually trade a player, sometimes it's just a conversation between 2 teams, sometimes you want to gauge interest or get a feel for the value of a player.

Mitch was shopped. Knicks have the best read on what type of player he is. They still sent some trainers this offseason to work with him. Could mean something, could mean nothing.

Don't get too caught up in the 4-5 teams that you have list above, ALL teams know Mitch is available, some will obviously have an easier time offering him a contract but those aren't the only teams out there.

Nalod wrote:

Vmart wrote:Trading for Ayton makes a lot of sense for the Knicks. They need to seriously consider in ways to get Ayton in Orange and Blue. Mitch is a stale player, defensively he is good but the overall game is just not there. If we trade Randle and sweeten the pot a bit. This allows the Knicks to play Obi, give a better balanced lineup. It would be a good move for the Knicks.

Randle more than sweetens the pot. I beg to consider we under value him but our opinions are like *******s, everyone has one.
Ayton has not made allstar game or much individual awards.
He is not a star, but wants to be paid like one. I get PHX push back. That said I do like him. whats he worth? I'll give Leon some slack here as he does not over pay his players.
EF is not over paid and neither is Randle.

My point, you gonna need Randles salary and mitch is the sweetner given how the cap plays out. Is it lopsided? A bit. Mitch's cap hold is like really low. Throw in Kemba here to bring it up. This if Kemba is ok to sit for a good stretch. Might have to use that 2nd round bit coin we got stashed if that don't get it done.
I like Ayton. Maybe 30mil the top end for him.

Remember, Knicks can't pay mitch more than 55mil. That's on the table. This is how we we get him paid than leave for nothing. PHX is better with Mitch and Randle over Ayton and Crowder.
Obi in crunch time is not a shot creator and that matters. He has that "down hill" thing down. Now, if he can improve on that so much the better. To be fair, lets assume he can continue to grow his game.
Are we better with Obi and Ayton than Mitch/Randle? Might be.

Now as an extension. Apparently this deal was on the table but there was some disagreement- I'm guessing the Knicks wanted a team option on the last year or Mitchell wanted a player option or both.

Mitchell has earned the right to explore his options in free agency. I think we need to be realistic that Robinson's next deal has already been negotiated. Some team has already told his agent how much they will offer Mitchell and the agent has gone back and told the Knicks.

One thing I read yesterday said that Thibs calls Dolan after every game and that because Leon doesn't like talking to the media, Thibs has more power because he's happy to be the face of the franchise. Anyone thinking the Knicks will trade Randle will be disappointed. Thibs loves Randle and sees him and RJ as the cornerstones.

In Thibs final presser he praised everyone up and down the roster except Robinson. So as much as we like Mitchell I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone.

Pre Coviid Dolan was pulling all of his money out to invest in "the future of entertainment"- 360 degree immersive arenas. I'm sure he's taken a big hit financially. Knicks have been bottom of the league salary wise since then. So I wouldn't be surprised if Dolan has given Knicks pretty strict salary guidelines and now Robinson is too expensive.

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:I think it's more likely Ayton goes to either Atl (for Capella and John Collins) or a package involving Anthony Davis.

Davis is fat, injury prone and getting old. That would be a horrible trade for the suns

Maybe so but I could see the Lakers moving on from AD since they love Lebron and Westbrook would require a pick attached. The Suns were high on AD before he joined the Lakers and if healthy (big if) he could help due to his shooting and shot creating.

Think a deal would Atl would be better for both parties.

I think the lakers give it one more shot next season with the team they have. If it doesn’t work they blow it up and let Westbrook’s $47 million come off the books and say bye bye to aging diva Lebron. Phil is in the building and he could care less what the media says

I agree that is what the Lakers should do, it's just that they don't seem to take their lumps from mistakes the way other teams do - they always try shortcuts and to their credit - are usually successful in retooling (compared to us :) Westbrook coming off the books changes everything for the Lakers future.

Having an entering his prime Shaq sign for less money and getting the draft rigged everytime they need to rebuild has helped the lakers

Why is it people say other franchise more attractive than NY because of taxes, but then guys sign in LA & literally pay more in taxes.

Because it’s an overhyped narrative

2/3 of these players are bankrupt within 5 years of leaving the nba and yet somehow people on the internet are lost in enough in their little worlds to think players understand state tax brackets

Bro, your stats seem hate filled. 2/3 of former NBA players are bankrupt within 5 years? Lmao

Sorry it’s only 60% of nba players are bankrupt within 5 years of leaving the league, not 66%

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/05/14/money-lessons-learned-from-pro-athletes-financial-fouls.html

Agree, Turner’s foot injury should scare everyone

Did Mitch Robinsons change anyones perception at the time? Knicks did a "wait and see" and Mitch had his best season. one might take a minority approach to his season and say his inclusion stagnated the offense a bit vs the previous year?
I won't be happy to lose him for nothing in return but if you respect the timeline the knicks were not irresponsible to take a wait and see approach. Detroit need only exceed the 55mil we are locked to give him to get him. I like mitch but I won't whine and cry about him leaving either.

The Knicks losing Mitch for nothing is the next great Dolan Debacle

Stay consistant. Do losing teams that lose a one dimensional player really enter in a debacle?
Do teams ever lose a player for nothing and eventually succeed. Of course they do.
Your just a one dimensional fan who bluts out one liners without thinking.
You think Dolan is in on this decison?

Yeah I guess Mitch is one dimensional the way Rudy Gobert is one dimensional. Way to rationalize getting rid our best draft pick in the past 30 years for nothing

Last year’s Randle extension reeks of Dolan/Isiah meddling

Rationalize? No, Im dealing with reality instead of one liner fable BS. Not even sure how extending a player who just was all NBA was “Meddling”? Was the FO not wanting Randle back and the owner with voices in his head insist on something?
Or are you stuck that Randle Contract is the worst despite being shown in recent weeks what the really bad ones in the NBA really look like? some things are subjective, which your entitled to. Somethings are in bold gray areas which at the very least should be recognized as such.

We are about to let Mitch go when he’s not even asking for the same asinine money Randle got. You can minimize Mitch all you want — going forward he, RJ and IQ have the most value +\- winning basketball games that were on the roster last season

I don’t make the decisons. NObody is happy about last season and nobody is putting blame on Mitch.
Basketball has 5 guys on the floor and chemistry matters. It all matters.
As for who gets paid what, well Mitch wants more. Knicks did not sign him earlier when he hat the foot issue. If he outperformed his contract and took the risk I agree that he hearned that right.
Need we really address the “asinine” randle contract one more time. 20-10 even if not effiecient but puts him barley in top 50 of paid players is not outrageous. You don’t have a good opinion on Randle is your business but promoting ignorant facts is not what we do as adults.

If your suggesting we dump randle to pay mitch then say it or propose it. But this childish hissy fit of blame does nothing.

Knicks are not letting him go. They are negotiating with limits by cap rules. YOu know none of the details of what they are discussing as do any of us. All we know until July knicks can’t go over 4 yrs 55mil. Once july hits he can sign for more with knicks or other teams. Simple.
Randle earned his contract and played up to it. He earned 21mil last year. This year its 23mil. Will he improve with better long range numbes and a less than ****ty attitude? We will see.
Will Mitch get paid by us or others and step up his game too? we will see.