Giving Tyus the MLE, and bringing Mitch back for around 14 Mil a year. Then the Knicks could just draft some young guys and send them to the G league to develop.

Tyus/IQ/Rose
RJ/ Grimes / Rookie #1
Hayward/ Reddish / Rookie #2
Randle/ Obi /Taj
Mitch / Sims /Taj

It’s not a major makeover but it’s fixing the issue the Knicks had last year. The young guys have less guys in front of them for minutes, and the team has some depth to absorb injuries. At all five spots. Hayward might be exactly what they need too as a A1 player if he can stay healthy. Also Hayward seems like a good vet to have around.

Continue to make Grimes and Reddish 3&D wings around IQ and Obi. Bring Rose in to just score when you need it. Also see if they can rebuild Randle’s value with people who might fit him better.

Everyone can defend too.

If they are depending on DRose as their PG then they're wasting another season. The FO has to get a hungry PG to run the team. That's DLo. He's working for a new contract and Thibs will run him ragged. DLo played good ball in Brooklyn and will need that kind of year to get the kind of contract he'll be looking for. For reference see Dinwiddie in Dallas.

And with the administration on the ropes forget the talk about selling low on Randle - sell now. If Randle starts slow, not only is Thibs gone with Rose soon to follow but Randle will have the value of a doorstop in the NBA. Sell.

Cut bait on Cam Reddish. He and Thibs aren't going to gel. Package Reddish with any number of role players and get somebody useful. Draft a SF superstar.

Jimbo5 wrote:If the FO decides not to resign mitch maybe they can try trading Mitch plus randle and 1 or 2 1st for Ayton taking care of the starting center problem then trading any DRose or walker plus Burks and Noel plus 1-2 1st rounders to get D'Lo.

Ayton
Obi
RJ
Grimes/Cam
D'Lo

Thats a young and telented team with some veteran/playoff experience. If only its that easy.

I get the distinct vibe that Cam is bad news. Turn him over. He still has value to somebody.

Phx isn't doing a trade with the Knicks for Ayton. Too many good teams looking to recover from a bad year for that.

I'd certainly trade Mitch mostly because he hasn't matured into the center we need. I'd move half this team 5 - 7 guys. Two draft picks plus a few key FA signings. Find a sleeper or two.

The chemistry isn't there anymore so Thibs will need to just assemble a Thibs team and play them hard while maintaining a youthful cohort (RJ, Sims, Grimes as untouchables).

fwk00 wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:If the FO decides not to resign mitch maybe they can try trading Mitch plus randle and 1 or 2 1st for Ayton taking care of the starting center problem then trading any DRose or walker plus Burks and Noel plus 1-2 1st rounders to get D'Lo.

Ayton
Obi
RJ
Grimes/Cam
D'Lo

Thats a young and telented team with some veteran/playoff experience. If only its that easy.

I get the distinct vibe that Cam is bad news. Turn him over. He still has value to somebody.

Phx isn't doing a trade with the Knicks for Ayton. Too many good teams looking to recover from a bad year for that.

I'd certainly trade Mitch mostly because he hasn't matured into the center we need. I'd move half this team 5 - 7 guys. Two draft picks plus a few key FA signings. Find a sleeper or two.

The chemistry isn't there anymore so Thibs will need to just assemble a Thibs team and play them hard while maintaining a youthful cohort (RJ, Sims, Grimes as untouchables).

Yo, you forgot IQ! Swing on over to basketball reference and tell me IQ isn't the better prospect than RJ. I think a lot of RJ's value comes from those missed layups that Robinson then finishes- can I call those Polish assists without offending anyone?

That's why resigning Robinson is a must- he's the top put back guy in the league. Sims is a nice guy but his rebound- gather- shot attempt game is just not nearly as valuable as Mitchell Robinson. Sims is a career back up~ which is great for where he was drafted but not a 'piece' by any means.

The 'find a sleeper' and 'draft a superstar SF'talk is just plain lazy. No one is on the other side of those hot takes.

gradyandrew wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:If the FO decides not to resign mitch maybe they can try trading Mitch plus randle and 1 or 2 1st for Ayton taking care of the starting center problem then trading any DRose or walker plus Burks and Noel plus 1-2 1st rounders to get D'Lo.

Ayton
Obi
RJ
Grimes/Cam
D'Lo

Thats a young and telented team with some veteran/playoff experience. If only its that easy.

I get the distinct vibe that Cam is bad news. Turn him over. He still has value to somebody.

Phx isn't doing a trade with the Knicks for Ayton. Too many good teams looking to recover from a bad year for that.

I'd certainly trade Mitch mostly because he hasn't matured into the center we need. I'd move half this team 5 - 7 guys. Two draft picks plus a few key FA signings. Find a sleeper or two.

The chemistry isn't there anymore so Thibs will need to just assemble a Thibs team and play them hard while maintaining a youthful cohort (RJ, Sims, Grimes as untouchables).

Yo, you forgot IQ! Swing on over to basketball reference and tell me IQ isn't the better prospect than RJ. I think a lot of RJ's value comes from those missed layups that Robinson then finishes- can I call those Polish assists without offending anyone?

That's why resigning Robinson is a must- he's the top put back guy in the league. Sims is a nice guy but his rebound- gather- shot attempt game is just not nearly as valuable as Mitchell Robinson. Sims is a career back up~ which is great for where he was drafted but not a 'piece' by any means.

The 'find a sleeper' and 'draft a superstar SF'talk is just plain lazy. No one is on the other side of those hot takes.

RJ's game will broaden. That will change Mitchell's numbers.

IQ might get you Donovan.

Only mentioned Sims for fiscal value to staying under the Cap. Big bang for the buck.

I could care less where all the no one's are. Thibs needs a SF not a project like Reddish.

And yes there are FAs worth signing depending on draft, trades, FA's If Miami can pull talent out their ass then we need to learn that trick too.

Next season should be about continuing to give RJ the ball as the alpha, see if IQ can elevate into a starting PG, see what Obi can with starter minutes, see how Grimes looks his second season and how the 11th pick rookie can do.

gradyandrew wrote:

“Deandre Ayton is going to get a max contract in the marketplace somewhere. Phoenix really has to look at the allocation financially of how they want to distribute salaries. “The relationship with Monty Williams had been one of the real benefits. I think their ability to work together and build a relationship. It will be interesting how that season ended impacts this. It will really be one of the stories of this offseason because there are a lot of teams figuring out how to acquire [Ayton].”

Maybe Martin. It just seems like in a summer without any other big FA's available Ayton will get a max offer, which begs the question- if Phoenix was willing to match a max offer last summer, why didn't they offer him the extension? CP- Bridges- Booker- there's clearly a lot of camaraderie between those 3. I don't remember CP ever talking about how lucky he was to finish his career with the up and coming young big.

I have been thinking about this since the Server allegations came out last year. Ayton seems like a really nice kid, not the kind of person who gets Sarver's "jokes." I haven't watched game 7 yet so I am half talking out of my ass. Ayton changing teams is good for us, that will knock one suitor out of the Robinson race.

Maybe what?

You are coming to a conclusion that Phoenix has only 2 possibilities: resign Ayton to the max or let him go for nothing. There is a ton of grey area where he is either on the team or traded and Phoenix gets something back.

fwk00 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I hope I'm dead wrong but I get the feeling this front office will view this past season as a fluke and will point to the previous 41-31 season as a more realistic view of this current team. I think they will blame the record on injuries to Rose and Noel for why this season was a disappointment. Which imo is the wrong approach. I think we need to realistically look in the mirror and admit just how far away we are. The plan should be to keep building and get some of the kids more minutes and opportunities. There is just no sense in chasing wins and a low seed in the playoffs but playing vets heavy minutes. Going into next season hoping Rose and Noel stay healthy and Randle recaptures his fluky All-Star form is a recipe for more disappointment. This regime needs to let go of the dream and hope that this team will achieve anything worthy with Randle, Rose and Fournier as key parts.

Next season should be about continuing to give RJ the ball as the alpha, see if IQ can elevate into a starting PG, see what Obi can with starter minutes, see how Grimes looks his second season and how the 11th pick rookie can do.

Its hard to tell what the FO will do. What we can take as givens is that this *has to be* a retooling year, The fan's patience with Thibs is already at a flash point so he has to know that stumbling out of the gate is a pink slip, Rose or no Rose.

Likewise Rose/WWW whose entire credibility rests on being player insiders have yet to attract even flies. And it is generationally clear that the Knicks are on their own - NBA don't care and the league and media is filled with haters.

All lottery picks are a crap shoot so unless the Knicks get in the top five they should probably just bundle it and trade for someone/anyone with upside. Unless they are comfortable playing russian roulette with believing Randle is making a comeback, they very much need to make a score or two that Thibs can make lemonade out of.

This roster is a long way from where it needs to be.

The only point I agree with is your last sentence.

You don't just fire a coach cause he stumbles out of the gate, that's extremely short sighted and why the carousel of coaches and GM's doesn't make sense. And you are playing straight into the concept of why you can't rebuild in NY. BTW, Rose has already guaranteed Thib's 5th year of his deal if that gives you any indication of where the whole FO and coaching group thought is at.

Your expectation that the FO should have already magically attracted flies is not aligned with reality. 2 years ago (give or take), when the FO took over, the Knicks were a 21 win team. Did you expect them to sign an all star that year? What about last summer... which all stars were out there and with what draft or player capital did the Knicks have to trade for that all star?

Leon has already told us he is going to do this step by step. You had better reset your expectations.

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I hope I'm dead wrong but I get the feeling this front office will view this past season as a fluke and will point to the previous 41-31 season as a more realistic view of this current team. I think they will blame the record on injuries to Rose and Noel for why this season was a disappointment. Which imo is the wrong approach. I think we need to realistically look in the mirror and admit just how far away we are. The plan should be to keep building and get some of the kids more minutes and opportunities. There is just no sense in chasing wins and a low seed in the playoffs but playing vets heavy minutes. Going into next season hoping Rose and Noel stay healthy and Randle recaptures his fluky All-Star form is a recipe for more disappointment. This regime needs to let go of the dream and hope that this team will achieve anything worthy with Randle, Rose and Fournier as key parts.

Next season should be about continuing to give RJ the ball as the alpha, see if IQ can elevate into a starting PG, see what Obi can with starter minutes, see how Grimes looks his second season and how the 11th pick rookie can do.

Its hard to tell what the FO will do. What we can take as givens is that this *has to be* a retooling year, The fan's patience with Thibs is already at a flash point so he has to know that stumbling out of the gate is a pink slip, Rose or no Rose.

Likewise Rose/WWW whose entire credibility rests on being player insiders have yet to attract even flies. And it is generationally clear that the Knicks are on their own - NBA don't care and the league and media is filled with haters.

All lottery picks are a crap shoot so unless the Knicks get in the top five they should probably just bundle it and trade for someone/anyone with upside. Unless they are comfortable playing russian roulette with believing Randle is making a comeback, they very much need to make a score or two that Thibs can make lemonade out of.

This roster is a long way from where it needs to be.

The only point I agree with is your last sentence.

You don't just fire a coach cause he stumbles out of the gate, that's extremely short sighted and why the carousel of coaches and GM's doesn't make sense. And you are playing straight into the concept of why you can't rebuild in NY. BTW, Rose has already guaranteed Thib's 5th year of his deal if that gives you any indication of where the whole FO and coaching group thought is at.

Your expectation that the FO should have already magically attracted flies is not aligned with reality. 2 years ago (give or take), when the FO took over, the Knicks were a 21 win team. Did you expect them to sign an all star that year? What about last summer... which all stars were out there and with what draft or player capital did the Knicks have to trade for that all star?

Leon has already told us he is going to do this step by step. You had better reset your expectations.

Ohhh. Stupid me.

Three more years of this you say... GUARANTEED! Can't wait. The coaching staff has already begun bugging out.

I remember a few years ago when it was fashionable to kick Phil Jackson around because he had never served in front office capacity. It was so fashionable that even Porzingus' half-twit brother was given credibility. Heady times.

That situation is so unlike the team architects of Leon Rose, WWW, and Thibodeau (see Minnesota). And Rose is going to do it 'RIGHT!' just the way his Udemy NBA Team Building courseware is teaching him to do it.

Its locked and guaranteed because the exercise of donning life vests and submitting resumes after this year's slow start was such a show of unity. WWW rumored to 'blame' Thibs for the sh@tshow.

You see blame and guaranteed don't play well in the same sentence.

I'm an old fool but I can guarantee that trotting out a dysfunctional Randle, a one-dimensional SF, a headcase or two, and a handful of over-achieving second-rounders with the expectation of contending will turn up the heat in the garden to boiling points.

PJ advocated a system (see GS) because consistent systems last over time and are teachable and repeatable. Thibs career isn't a consistent, repeatable, or even systemic exercise in coaching - let alone team building. Give me an idea of what to expect next season - even a wild guess will do.

Here's my guess, more Thibs.

Waht about a team like GS? Passing, movement, systemic consistency, next man up.

Dolan will do what's best for the team - pay them off and move on unless this gets fixed.