Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1511386613741408266

Randle did an excellent job this season of helping teach RJ to become a better leader by essentially showing him how not to behave- note how RJ has made a point of doing the opposite of Randle- he was happy to go to pressers even after losses, he made the effort to pass more to Mitch and encourage him, likewise with the other young guys. He shows appreciation to the fans. He celebrates the success of his team mates. Nice to see.

Would it be a low blow to say that after three years of watching Randle here, I can see why his Kentucky team lost to a less talented UConn team? (shoutouts to Shabazz Napier) Randle must've been really fun in that locker room as well.

Randle has made the playoffs once as a NBA player. Once in 8 years

Its not that USTA or PGA. teams make playoffs, not players. He played 14 minutes his rookie year.
He also made the allstar game, most improved player and 2nd team all NBA just a year ago.
One might look at the big picture and decipher what is accurate and what is subjective.
Randle had a bad season after systematically improving. Question is how did this happen and how can it be fixed.

Something is wrong with his footwork and it’s affecting the rest of his game and his head. He’s compensating by only passing to Fournier as an offensive 1/2 to the exclusion of the rest of the team. He’s a great player and in the right role he is still a max or near max player, but the discount comes from the confusion as to whether he is Kobe or Dray Green. He can be more than Green, but he needs to find joy in getting his teammates involved regardless of his scoring total. He froze Barrett out a bit last year.

Anyone trading for Randle will want him to change his role. His shot selection is just not good enough. If he was 24 points on 50% in the paint, 40% front 3, 80% from the line with 7 attempts per game, 10 rebs, 5 assists, he’d be all NBA again. Funny thing is, he could do that on the same 17 attempts. And if his attempts came in the flow instead of ISO ball, it would be that much easier. I want to remove ISO-Randle and replace him with Team-Guy Randle.

We will see what happens over the offseason. I just wouldn’t sell low on Randle because this year didn’t work out.

EwingsGlass wrote:Something is wrong with his footwork and it’s affecting the rest of his game and his head. He’s compensating by only passing to Fournier as an offensive 1/2 to the exclusion of the rest of the team. He’s a great player and in the right role he is still a max or near max player, but the discount comes from the confusion as to whether he is Kobe or Dray Green. He can be more than Green, but he needs to find joy in getting his teammates involved regardless of his scoring total. He froze Barrett out a bit last year.

Anyone trading for Randle will want him to change his role. His shot selection is just not good enough. If he was 24 points on 50% in the paint, 40% front 3, 80% from the line with 7 attempts per game, 10 rebs, 5 assists, he’d be all NBA again. Funny thing is, he could do that on the same 17 attempts. And if his attempts came in the flow instead of ISO ball, it would be that much easier. I want to remove ISO-Randle and replace him with Team-Guy Randle.

We will see what happens over the offseason. I just wouldn’t sell low on Randle because this year didn’t work out.

Randle's shot chart changed dramatically from 2020-2021 to 2021-2022. Why that is, maybe defenses have found reliable counters to some of his moves. Or maybe he spent a lot of time working on his Nowitzki off-foot shots and his brain is defaulting to that. No doubt there are a lot of factors involved here. But psyche-wise, his game-to-game body language definitely took a step back - much more frustration/losing his cool, very much like his 1st season with the Knicks.

He's got a big, strong bully body, but too often plays a finesse/fadeaway sort of game. He needs to improve his eFG/shooting in 2pt range. And we should accept that as a big man/high usage guy, his 3pt% will fluctuate year to year (maybe some years 30%, other years 35%+). His 2pt% should be his reliable foundation.

Nalod wrote:

technomaster wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Something is wrong with his footwork and it’s affecting the rest of his game and his head. He’s compensating by only passing to Fournier as an offensive 1/2 to the exclusion of the rest of the team. He’s a great player and in the right role he is still a max or near max player, but the discount comes from the confusion as to whether he is Kobe or Dray Green. He can be more than Green, but he needs to find joy in getting his teammates involved regardless of his scoring total. He froze Barrett out a bit last year.

Anyone trading for Randle will want him to change his role. His shot selection is just not good enough. If he was 24 points on 50% in the paint, 40% front 3, 80% from the line with 7 attempts per game, 10 rebs, 5 assists, he’d be all NBA again. Funny thing is, he could do that on the same 17 attempts. And if his attempts came in the flow instead of ISO ball, it would be that much easier. I want to remove ISO-Randle and replace him with Team-Guy Randle.

We will see what happens over the offseason. I just wouldn’t sell low on Randle because this year didn’t work out.

Randle's shot chart changed dramatically from 2020-2021 to 2021-2022. Why that is, maybe defenses have found reliable counters to some of his moves. Or maybe he spent a lot of time working on his Nowitzki off-foot shots and his brain is defaulting to that. No doubt there are a lot of factors involved here. But psyche-wise, his game-to-game body language definitely took a step back - much more frustration/losing his cool, very much like his 1st season with the Knicks.

He's got a big, strong bully body, but too often plays a finesse/fadeaway sort of game. He needs to improve his eFG/shooting in 2pt range. And we should accept that as a big man/high usage guy, his 3pt% will fluctuate year to year (maybe some years 30%, other years 35%+). His 2pt% should be his reliable foundation.

Good stuff. Shot selections seems harder this year. Falling back more in delivery and less open looks.
Thibs takes blame for not putting him in better scenario and I’d love to learn more about what that means.
As for being “bad team mate” are there multiple instances of him not picking up players? Or just one we keep harping on? Was his injury his reason for grumpy looks after a bit of post allstar resurgence? Does the yoot playfulness which is a joy just not for him as he his personality just not inline with his personality?
Last year was special. “We Here” was awesome! Where is that guy? Give me more before I unceremoniously dump him. My agenda is Knicks success!

Here is the problem with Randle and his big and strong body. Yes, there are times when he is unstoppable and he is a sight for sore eyes. The problem is that in the NBA, especially with the smaller line-ups, you have to be an extremely heady player when you post up and drive to the rim and that’s especially true for bigger players. Then with Randle, when he has a clear path or the defense just sucks, he’ll get an easy lay up and mid range shot (a big weapon for him last year.) However, it’s so damn easy for a competent defense to double him without him seeing it coming because his head is always down….. which also allows nearby help defenders to swipe the ball from him. His big strong body can only take him so far. This was a problem in year one with the Knicks. It was less of a problem in year 2 but a huge problem in the playoffs and now it’s a big problem now and he’s got the bad attitude to top it off.

I don’t think it can be fixed. He has had a very good coach for 2 years now.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

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Kemet wrote:RJ Barrett's B.Ball IQ are so low after 3 NBA seasons of being a 40 minute NBA starter having the Green-light to shoot 16 or more shots per game. Barret's ball-handle and passing-skills were so bad his first two seasons in the NBA that the Knicks post season games against the Hawks back-court guards (Trae, Lou, Huerter, and Bogdanovic) all embarrassed RJ Barrett throughout the series on both sides of the court making the Knicks coaching staff see with much clarity that RJ Barrett is a poor SG, the next season Barrett was put at the SF position inwhich Barrett did improve on his inconsistency performance by midseason, and started passing the ball more.
As a Closer, or clutch-player RJ Barrett grades a C- minus.
Second-season Anthony Edwards were right Knicks opponents want RJ Barrett to take the last shot !!!

The first year he wasn't allowed to shoot he way he'd spent the summer practicing because Fizzle told him not to, and Randle and Alfred Payton froze him out of the offense and refused to pass to him. Year two he was used a lot as a catch and shoot corner three guy. This season was the first where he was given the ball so much and that didn't really happen until we got rid of Walker.

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Kemet wrote:RJ Barrett's B.Ball IQ are so low after 3 NBA seasons of being a 40 minute NBA starter having the Green-light to shoot 16 or more shots per game. Barret's ball-handle and passing-skills were so bad his first two seasons in the NBA that the Knicks post season games against the Hawks back-court guards (Trae, Lou, Huerter, and Bogdanovic) all embarrassed RJ Barrett throughout the series on both sides of the court making the Knicks coaching staff see with much clarity that RJ Barrett is a poor SG, the next season Barrett was put at the SF position inwhich Barrett did improve on his inconsistency performance by midseason, and started passing the ball more.
As a Closer, or clutch-player RJ Barrett grades a C- minus.
Second-season Anthony Edwards were right Knicks opponents want RJ Barrett to take the last shot !!!

The first year he wasn't allowed to shoot he way he'd spent the summer practicing because Fizzle told him not to, and Randle and Alfred Payton froze him out of the offense and refused to pass to him. Year two he was used a lot as a catch and shoot corner three guy. This season was the first where he was given the ball so much and that didn't really happen until we got rid of Walker.

Kemet has a really weird thing with hating on RJ and just kinda making up stuff up about how bad he is or what he cant or doesnt do. Its weird. Kid's 21 coming off a 21/6/3 season. Yeah he's gotta get more eff% but he passes most of the eye tests and keeps getting better

I've pretty much got him on virtual ignore.

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Kemet wrote:RJ Barrett's B.Ball IQ are so low after 3 NBA seasons of being a 40 minute NBA starter having the Green-light to shoot 16 or more shots per game. Barret's ball-handle and passing-skills were so bad his first two seasons in the NBA that the Knicks post season games against the Hawks back-court guards (Trae, Lou, Huerter, and Bogdanovic) all embarrassed RJ Barrett throughout the series on both sides of the court making the Knicks coaching staff see with much clarity that RJ Barrett is a poor SG, the next season Barrett was put at the SF position inwhich Barrett did improve on his inconsistency performance by midseason, and started passing the ball more.
As a Closer, or clutch-player RJ Barrett grades a C- minus.
Second-season Anthony Edwards were right Knicks opponents want RJ Barrett to take the last shot !!!

The first year he wasn't allowed to shoot he way he'd spent the summer practicing because Fizzle told him not to, and Randle and Alfred Payton froze him out of the offense and refused to pass to him. Year two he was used a lot as a catch and shoot corner three guy. This season was the first where he was given the ball so much and that didn't really happen until we got rid of Walker.

Kemet has a really weird thing with hating on RJ and just kinda making up stuff up about how bad he is or what he cant or doesnt do. Its weird. Kid's 21 coming off a 21/6/3 season. Yeah he's gotta get more eff% but he passes most of the eye tests and keeps getting better

I've pretty much got him on virtual ignore.

its so dumb. IDK how good RJ is going to be, but he's 21, putting up good numbers and he plays defense and is dedicated to being good on that side of the ball as well. He's gonna get paid at least once. Then we'll see if he more Andrew Wiggins or more Jimmy Butler.

I know Randle is everyone's emotional whipping boy here and they all want him gone. I am not really in that boat, but the thing that has me leaning that way is RJ and his leadership. He's a gym rat and works as hard as anyone in the NBA (except may Quickly). Regardless of how good RJ ends up being if you turn over team leadership to him you are gonna have a very hard working crew that plays D. Always thought Thibs/RJ was a perfect match and still do.

What's even slightly more weird about Kemet is he was the head cheerleader for the Melo Must Leave - He Play No D bandwagon back in the day. Now we have a yoot who actually accepts the challenge of playing D against opponent's best wings and he gets the hate.

I would love to get some sort of valid insight into why Randle's attitude deteriorated into pure sheehit this past season, but I can't fathom just jettisoning him now because he's the board's favorite anti-yoot scapegoat, single-handedly helping Thibs holding Obi down from being the first LarryLegendStoudaVinsanity. You'd be selling lower than low at this point with Randle.

I'd rather have RJ continue to possibly develop into the face of the franchise with some quality help from a real Batman. Can we possibly get someone to check Randle's meds?

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Kemet wrote:RJ Barrett's B.Ball IQ are so low after 3 NBA seasons of being a 40 minute NBA starter having the Green-light to shoot 16 or more shots per game. Barret's ball-handle and passing-skills were so bad his first two seasons in the NBA that the Knicks post season games against the Hawks back-court guards (Trae, Lou, Huerter, and Bogdanovic) all embarrassed RJ Barrett throughout the series on both sides of the court making the Knicks coaching staff see with much clarity that RJ Barrett is a poor SG, the next season Barrett was put at the SF position inwhich Barrett did improve on his inconsistency performance by midseason, and started passing the ball more.
As a Closer, or clutch-player RJ Barrett grades a C- minus.
Second-season Anthony Edwards were right Knicks opponents want RJ Barrett to take the last shot !!!

The first year he wasn't allowed to shoot he way he'd spent the summer practicing because Fizzle told him not to, and Randle and Alfred Payton froze him out of the offense and refused to pass to him. Year two he was used a lot as a catch and shoot corner three guy. This season was the first where he was given the ball so much and that didn't really happen until we got rid of Walker.

Kemet has a really weird thing with hating on RJ and just kinda making up stuff up about how bad he is or what he cant or doesnt do. Its weird. Kid's 21 coming off a 21/6/3 season. Yeah he's gotta get more eff% but he passes most of the eye tests and keeps getting better

I've pretty much got him on virtual ignore.

its so dumb. IDK how good RJ is going to be, but he's 21, putting up good numbers and he plays defense and is dedicated to being good on that side of the ball as well. He's gonna get paid at least once. Then we'll see if he more Andrew Wiggins or more Jimmy Butler.

I know Randle is everyone's emotional whipping boy here and they all want him gone. I am not really in that boat, but the thing that has me leaning that way is RJ and his leadership. He's a gym rat and works as hard as anyone in the NBA (except may Quickly). Regardless of how good RJ ends up being if you turn over team leadership to him you are gonna have a very hard working crew that plays D. Always thought Thibs/RJ was a perfect match and still do.

What's even slightly more weird about Kemet is he was the head cheerleader for the Melo Must Leave - He Play No D bandwagon back in the day. Now we have a yoot who actually accepts the challenge of playing D against opponent's best wings and he gets the hate.

I would love to get some sort of valid insight into why Randle's attitude deteriorated into pure sheehit this past season, but I can't fathom just jettisoning him now because he's the board's favorite anti-yoot scapegoat, single-handedly helping Thibs holding Obi down from being the first LarryLegendStoudaVinsanity. You'd be selling lower than low at this point with Randle.

I'd rather have RJ continue to possibly develop into the face of the franchise with some quality help from a real Batman. Can we possibly get someone to check Randle's meds?

its a huge wait and see. Randle simple needs to play better. IDK know his issue was either. Obi needs more playing time for sure. It doesnt have to be at Randle's expense IMO. Chicago is staring Portis/Lopez together. It comes down to shooting and if they are playing well. I do think Randle's market is better than it was before his MIP season. There's a couple orgs that think they can "get him right" and snatch him for the right price. I would be fine if its the Knicks who get him right. Last year was tough to watch... cant blame the fans for being discouraged by Randle nightly.

I've never gotten why Thibs won't play them together. Obi is not your prototypical PF, he certainly doesn't need to dominate the ball, and although Thibs was probably having projectile vomit screaming nightmares imagining them trying to play D together at the same time, I think the nightmares it might have presented to opposing defenses would have been slightly more fun to watch than Randle glowering at everyone like he's run out of Paxil. And who knows? Maybe if they played together, Randle might start taking to Obi like he has somewhat with Fournier. Somewhat. That's a great non-word. Maybe Thibs gets Obi to grow out his 'do next season into that Bullock thing?

Just wondering about the bold; who are these orgs that think they can get Randle right? The Nits, maybe? LOL Now there's some trade possibilities I haven't seen yet! LMAO

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Kemet wrote:RJ Barrett's B.Ball IQ are so low after 3 NBA seasons of being a 40 minute NBA starter having the Green-light to shoot 16 or more shots per game. Barret's ball-handle and passing-skills were so bad his first two seasons in the NBA that the Knicks post season games against the Hawks back-court guards (Trae, Lou, Huerter, and Bogdanovic) all embarrassed RJ Barrett throughout the series on both sides of the court making the Knicks coaching staff see with much clarity that RJ Barrett is a poor SG, the next season Barrett was put at the SF position inwhich Barrett did improve on his inconsistency performance by midseason, and started passing the ball more.
As a Closer, or clutch-player RJ Barrett grades a C- minus.
Second-season Anthony Edwards were right Knicks opponents want RJ Barrett to take the last shot !!!

The first year he wasn't allowed to shoot he way he'd spent the summer practicing because Fizzle told him not to, and Randle and Alfred Payton froze him out of the offense and refused to pass to him. Year two he was used a lot as a catch and shoot corner three guy. This season was the first where he was given the ball so much and that didn't really happen until we got rid of Walker.

Kemet has a really weird thing with hating on RJ and just kinda making up stuff up about how bad he is or what he cant or doesnt do. Its weird. Kid's 21 coming off a 21/6/3 season. Yeah he's gotta get more eff% but he passes most of the eye tests and keeps getting better

I've pretty much got him on virtual ignore.

its so dumb. IDK how good RJ is going to be, but he's 21, putting up good numbers and he plays defense and is dedicated to being good on that side of the ball as well. He's gonna get paid at least once. Then we'll see if he more Andrew Wiggins or more Jimmy Butler.

I know Randle is everyone's emotional whipping boy here and they all want him gone. I am not really in that boat, but the thing that has me leaning that way is RJ and his leadership. He's a gym rat and works as hard as anyone in the NBA (except may Quickly). Regardless of how good RJ ends up being if you turn over team leadership to him you are gonna have a very hard working crew that plays D. Always thought Thibs/RJ was a perfect match and still do.

I am in the same position as you. My take on Randle is that he has become inefficient on offense but is still a plus defender, rebounder and passer from the PF position. I think if he accept a role that accentuated those strengths (while keeping his head straight) he is capable of being that player on a championship team. I really think Randle needs to make Draymond Green his role model. Randle probably thinks he is better than Green and that's part of the problem.

The question for Barrett is what is his next step. He took the leadership role. His efficiency needs to get better. I think it will. But the Wiggins/Butler comparisons are reasonable. I think he will improve though. He puts the work in.

Randle can defend but only when he is motivated to do so.... and he takes waaaayyyy too much time off on that end of things. For me, he will NEVER be a plus defender. Never ever, he has already proved that to all of us.

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Kemet wrote:RJ Barrett's B.Ball IQ are so low after 3 NBA seasons of being a 40 minute NBA starter having the Green-light to shoot 16 or more shots per game. Barret's ball-handle and passing-skills were so bad his first two seasons in the NBA that the Knicks post season games against the Hawks back-court guards (Trae, Lou, Huerter, and Bogdanovic) all embarrassed RJ Barrett throughout the series on both sides of the court making the Knicks coaching staff see with much clarity that RJ Barrett is a poor SG, the next season Barrett was put at the SF position inwhich Barrett did improve on his inconsistency performance by midseason, and started passing the ball more.
As a Closer, or clutch-player RJ Barrett grades a C- minus.
Second-season Anthony Edwards were right Knicks opponents want RJ Barrett to take the last shot !!!

The first year he wasn't allowed to shoot he way he'd spent the summer practicing because Fizzle told him not to, and Randle and Alfred Payton froze him out of the offense and refused to pass to him. Year two he was used a lot as a catch and shoot corner three guy. This season was the first where he was given the ball so much and that didn't really happen until we got rid of Walker.

Kemet has a really weird thing with hating on RJ and just kinda making up stuff up about how bad he is or what he cant or doesnt do. Its weird. Kid's 21 coming off a 21/6/3 season. Yeah he's gotta get more eff% but he passes most of the eye tests and keeps getting better

I've pretty much got him on virtual ignore.

its so dumb. IDK how good RJ is going to be, but he's 21, putting up good numbers and he plays defense and is dedicated to being good on that side of the ball as well. He's gonna get paid at least once. Then we'll see if he more Andrew Wiggins or more Jimmy Butler.

I know Randle is everyone's emotional whipping boy here and they all want him gone. I am not really in that boat, but the thing that has me leaning that way is RJ and his leadership. He's a gym rat and works as hard as anyone in the NBA (except may Quickly). Regardless of how good RJ ends up being if you turn over team leadership to him you are gonna have a very hard working crew that plays D. Always thought Thibs/RJ was a perfect match and still do.

I am in the same position as you. My take on Randle is that he has become inefficient on offense but is still a plus defender, rebounder and passer from the PF position. I think if he accept a role that accentuated those strengths (while keeping his head straight) he is capable of being that player on a championship team. I really think Randle needs to make Draymond Green his role model. Randle probably thinks he is better than Green and that's part of the problem.

The question for Barrett is what is his next step. He took the leadership role. His efficiency needs to get better. I think it will. But the Wiggins/Butler comparisons are reasonable. I think he will improve though. He puts the work in.

Randle can defend but only when he is motivated to do so.... and he takes waaaayyyy too much time off on that end of things. For me, he will NEVER be a plus defender. Never ever, he has already proved that to all of us.

This year he was not.. Knicks opposing EFG% was .521 while Randle's opponents shot .530 EFG%
However last year his .491 while the team's was .509 (both exceptional)

His defensive metrics have been among tops for the team the last 2 years.

Truth is he plays pretty good defense... its when he doesnt you throw your arms up and say we gotta get rid of this guy. I get it... I think he's a lot more salvageable than people think. There's a lot of fan emotion and thats part of the game. If we start the season 8-2 with Randle playing well its gonna get forgotten and fast