SergioNYK wrote:This is 2014 all over again. We went from a 54 win season in 2013 to a 37 win season in 2014. We fired Woody and hired Fisher, Hornecek, Fizdale and made things 100x worse. Woody shouldn't have been fired. After giving us our best season the last 20 years, he deserved at least a chance to redeem himself. Same with Thibs imo. We can't keep firing coaches every other year. We need some continuity. And it will reflect poorly on this franchise if we fired a HC after he won COTY the season before.

Get Thibs a PG and players who fit HIS system and style and he'll win. He's proven it.

mikey part 2 lost me when he allowed the awful chris smith mess to play out. i realize he wanted his job so had to play along with that poop. still would have liked him to not even tolerate that. hawks bailed on the guy after they won 53.

if they hired the wrong guy, why stick to it over fear of pr issues? if the folks making the bad hires dont get dealt with, thats worse, see bullets/wizards with ernie. continuity and fear of looking bad should not prevent you from cutting losses with folks.

havent the knicks been burned enough with guys running a system and not changing to fit what players they actually have, or how somethings have changed?

Deuce was “demoted” going into the allstar game weeked to give him more work? To prepare for more time after?
Is Ryan “A” going to get time? If coaches don’t think Deuce is ready, thats fine. Just because I don’t understand something does not mean Im right.
Grimes is doing great under coach Thibs. so is 21 year old RJ.
Fans think we gonna lose so if so, why not play Deuce. Because the coach don’t think we going to lose.

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sidsanders wrote:wesley needs to go if hes gonna be exposed as a guy who will run to the owner to complain about others -- if he really is doing this. who wants to work around that. if this is legit stuff, feels like hes trying to save his skin.

Suspect Thibs leaked this to expose Wes to try and get this reaction. Will likely backfire- now the infighting is out in the open, it will force their hand and make them more likely to fire Thibs. Can't have this philosophical split, we saw it back with JVG vs Ernie Grunfield except Thibs has lost: the young players, isn't liked by Fournier and Kemba (even though he's started them), Randle doesn't seem particularly enamoured by him despite his defense of him, he's also alienated the fans, likely Dolan, and p'd off the front office. Likely Johnnie Bryant and co don't feel they have enough input either.

Clean wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:This is 2014 all over again. We went from a 54 win season in 2013 to a 37 win season in 2014. We fired Woody and hired Fisher, Hornecek, Fizdale and made things 100x worse. Woody shouldn't have been fired. After giving us our best season the last 20 years, he deserved at least a chance to redeem himself. Same with Thibs imo. We can't keep firing coaches every other year. We need some continuity. And it will reflect poorly on this franchise if we fired a HC after he won COTY the season before.

Get Thibs a PG and players who fit HIS system and style and he'll win. He's proven it.

I totally agree with you in general. It is why before this week I was against firing Thibs. I just wanted him to change a few ways how he handles things. You can check the previous Thibs threads for proof. The problem now has become so bad and Thibs has refused to adjust in anyway at all. These red flags have been happening when we were 5 - 1 and he did nothing to stop any of them. The same thing we failed to do then vs bad teams we are failing now against good teams and even G-League teams. Just ignoring the issues because of our record is very shortsighted.

During the Lakers game frank was miced up and he said something along the lines 'we know they are going to collapse the paint so look for the open shooter'. I been saying this from forever the weakside guy ALWAYS touches the paint when he can't help defend anyway because he is the WEAKSIDE guy. All this ever does is allow for an open corner 3 every time. Look the Giddy's highlights against us half his passes was to the weakside corner 3 because of this simple dumb part of Thibs defense. The starting lineup is the worst defending lineup in NBA histroy while we still had a winning record. He ignored it and is still using it to this very day. He does not adjust AT ALL. I also want to stop firing coaches but you can't settle on a bad fit because you are still doing yourself no favors. I could maybe stomach Thibs if he were playing our youth but he is not even doing that while we are one of the worst teams in the NBA. I am sorry but he has to go.

What adjustments do you want Thibs to make?

Play the young guys more? I agree but are you going to ignore the minutes Grimes has received? What about RJ, Mitch and IQ?

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I’d like to keep a coach for 4-5 years. We need some continuity. This year is a bust( most likely) and we can clearly see we missed a solid pg badly.

this should be the case if things are building in a decent direction (whatever that is defined as, dunno). they should not keep guys around just so they can say they havent fired someone recently. if they are doing a bad job and not meeting goals, you gotta change out those people. continuity for the sake of it -- what does that accomplish?

If the Raps don't fire the COY for Nurse I don't think they win a championship.

Back that truck up.

If they don't trade for Kawhi and he doesn't hit a miracle turn around deep 2 point shot at the buzzer against Philly they may not even make it past the second round.

Since Kawhi has left, Nurse has been worse than COY Casey year over year.

Rosters matter.

martin, the raptors had the 2nd best record in the nba prior to covid stoppage the year after kawhi and danny green left and nurse won coy.

i liked casey but all raps fans know him and knew he was limited as a coach based on how he played his offense and lack of creativity. raptors are lucky to have nurse. he's one of the best. he thinks outside of the box and even this year, we are playing an experimental system/style/rotation and it's paying dividends.

as a raptors fan...if we had casey, we lose to the sixers in that series. and we may not even have traded for gasol with his input. his track record since he left speaks for itself. he got $35+ mil from the pistons when we fired him - we actually did him a favor financially.

martin wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I’d like to keep a coach for 4-5 years. We need some continuity. This year is a bust( most likely) and we can clearly see we missed a solid pg badly.

this should be the case if things are building in a decent direction (whatever that is defined as, dunno). they should not keep guys around just so they can say they havent fired someone recently. if they are doing a bad job and not meeting goals, you gotta change out those people. continuity for the sake of it -- what does that accomplish?

If the Raps don't fire the COY for Nurse I don't think they win a championship.

Back that truck up.

If they don't trade for Kawhi and he doesn't hit a miracle turn around deep 2 point shot at the buzzer against Philly they may not even make it past the second round.

Since Kawhi has left, Nurse has been worse than COY Casey year over year.

Rosters matter.

martin, the raptors had the 2nd best record in the nba prior to covid stoppage the year after kawhi left and nurse won coy.

i liked casey but all raps fans know him and knew he was limited as a coach based on how he played his offense and lack of creativity. raptors are lucky to have nurse. he's one of the best. he thinks outside of the box and even this year, we are playing an experimental system/style/rotation and it's paying dividends.

as a raptors fan...if we had casey, we lose to the sixers in that series. and we may not even have traded for gasol with his input. his track record since he left speaks for itself. he got $35+ mil from the pistons when we fired him - we actually did him a favor financially.

Thanks.

I can't account for the change to the roster after Kawhi left. How did the Raptors do in the playoffs that year?

well covid hit and it was a bubble. to me, the bubble is some alternate reality and doesn't count.

but in those playoffs, lost in the 2nd round in 7 games.

djsunyc wrote:

martin wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I’d like to keep a coach for 4-5 years. We need some continuity. This year is a bust( most likely) and we can clearly see we missed a solid pg badly.

this should be the case if things are building in a decent direction (whatever that is defined as, dunno). they should not keep guys around just so they can say they havent fired someone recently. if they are doing a bad job and not meeting goals, you gotta change out those people. continuity for the sake of it -- what does that accomplish?

If the Raps don't fire the COY for Nurse I don't think they win a championship.

Back that truck up.

If they don't trade for Kawhi and he doesn't hit a miracle turn around deep 2 point shot at the buzzer against Philly they may not even make it past the second round.

Since Kawhi has left, Nurse has been worse than COY Casey year over year.

Rosters matter.

martin, the raptors had the 2nd best record in the nba prior to covid stoppage the year after kawhi left and nurse won coy.

i liked casey but all raps fans know him and knew he was limited as a coach based on how he played his offense and lack of creativity. raptors are lucky to have nurse. he's one of the best. he thinks outside of the box and even this year, we are playing an experimental system/style/rotation and it's paying dividends.

as a raptors fan...if we had casey, we lose to the sixers in that series. and we may not even have traded for gasol with his input. his track record since he left speaks for itself. he got $35+ mil from the pistons when we fired him - we actually did him a favor financially.

Thanks.

I can't account for the change to the roster after Kawhi left. How did the Raptors do in the playoffs that year?

well covid hit and it was a bubble. to me, the bubble is some alternate reality and doesn't count.

but in those playoffs, lost in the 2nd round in 7 games.

Barcelona coming up on a decade? Is that right?

My eyes see a team that does not give up on its coach or each other but has chemistry issues. Im not into this fallacy that another coach is going to magically make it better. If Thibs is being stubborn and not in synch with his FO and won’t bend then if to be replaced I prefer it be in house promotion.
Im ok with Thibs wanting to “Win now” but at some point if its not working its detrimental to the team. Not sure we have crossed that line but we are getting close.

Thibs should feel as he does and that to get the team hot and in the play in. With Derrik returning an a full healthy roster he should make a run for it. But if the FO is thinking differently he needs to back down.
He works for them, not his vanity.

franco12 wrote:

Rookie wrote:

sidsanders wrote:wesley needs to go if hes gonna be exposed as a guy who will run to the owner to complain about others -- if he really is doing this. who wants to work around that. if this is legit stuff, feels like hes trying to save his skin.

To this day I still have zero idea who this Wesley guy is or how he has any credentials to be part of decisions made by the Knicks. Was he a college player? Has he worked for other organizations as an assistant? What has he done in any basketball related job? Who the F is this guy and why did anyone let him near our team?

A connected grifter? That is what I want to say. Didn’t he eff something up already by going to the press? I forget what it was and I can’t seem to google it to track the event down.

So basically our front office is a clown show, but fire the coach? Yup, makes sense in a Knicks world. I can’t think of one team that would hire Rose, Wesley or Gerssen if they were fired tomorrow. Perry has a legitimate career and I guess you can say the same for Brock Aller. On the other hand, our coaching staff has some pretty solid resumes. If I were assigning blame, I would start with the jokers in the front office. Rose and Wesley don’t have the experience to run a team and the coach is on the hot seat? The off-season moves should be on the hot seat. I really doubt Aller was advocating for roster/cap inflexibility or that Thibs was happy with adding Fournier or Walker. Enabling the entitled Randle smells of Rose and Wesley. This whole thing stinks and our team is being run by a couple of con artists who are in over their heads.