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Can't wait until he is gone. Most of this season I been on the keep Randle just have him play as part of the team and not ISO. He is too far gone now. He has to be traded. The sooner the better.

ESOMKnicks wrote:Trading Randle now would be wrong on so many levels. His current trade value is low, trading a high-profile FA right after extending him would hurt the Knicks' image with other players, and leave us with a reputation of throwing people to the wolves at first signs of trouble. Yes, Julius is underperforming, but I do not think it is a reflection of his character. He has done enough in NY to prove that he is a hard working and relentless player, logging in the long minutes, trying to get teammates involved, committed to making himself and the team better, I do not believe someone like that could have turned into a punk overnight. Maybe it is his family situation, maybe he indeed had Covid during the protocol absence and is feeling the after-effects, maybe it is the consequence of him shedding weight during the offseason that have sapped his strength and energy. We gotta give him time to set himself straight.

The Kincks would do right by not making a knee jerk reaction, and giving the current team some more time together. Right now we need some stability and continuity, not another Red October revolution.

So, unless a Giannis or at least a Deandre Ayton are about to walk in through the door, I am against any desperation trades of Randle or other key players.

fwk00 wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:Trading Randle now would be wrong on so many levels. His current trade value is low, trading a high-profile FA right after extending him would hurt the Knicks' image with other players, and leave us with a reputation of throwing people to the wolves at first signs of trouble. Yes, Julius is underperforming, but I do not think it is a reflection of his character. He has done enough in NY to prove that he is a hard working and relentless player, logging in the long minutes, trying to get teammates involved, committed to making himself and the team better, I do not believe someone like that could have turned into a punk overnight. Maybe it is his family situation, maybe he indeed had Covid during the protocol absence and is feeling the after-effects, maybe it is the consequence of him shedding weight during the offseason that have sapped his strength and energy. We gotta give him time to set himself straight.

The Kincks would do right by not making a knee jerk reaction, and giving the current team some more time together. Right now we need some stability and continuity, not another Red October revolution.

So, unless a Giannis or at least a Deandre Ayton are about to walk in through the door, I am against any desperation trades of Randle or other key players.

The Randle of last year is never coming back. Full stop.

The Randle of this year has burned through whatever goodwill he may have earned last year.

Basketball is a team sport and player costs are opportunity costs that are either taken advantage of or not.

NOBODY on the Knicks is a social worker/psychiatrist. Randle at this point, HERE in NY, is a guy sliding down a slippery slope and he can't control his fall. Furthermore, his slide may have started with "good intentions". He is not and never has been a point forward worth his salt. The opportunity cost for those entertaining that vanity - Fizdale and now Thibs - is that the PG position is wholly compromised for everyone who attempts to fix it.

The idea that his performance (e.g. better statistical games) will heal the broken trust of teammates and fans is delusional. He needs to go somewhere else and start that process over. NY is the most difficult place to try faking that virtue. The streets are paved with the platitudes of those who lose the trust of their peers.

The opportunity cost of raising Randle's trade value may mean stunting Obie's minutes, more team losses, increased media and locker room tensions, diminished faith in Thibs AND the FO, and the very real possibility that by summer the Knicks may have to sacrifice a pick to just rid themselves of his contract.

Trading Randle sooner than later is not a "panic" move, its a smart business move. Trade wisely.

And trading wisely doesn't mean "let's tank" (e.g. absurd John Wall, Russell Westbrook body dumps) and it doesn't mean "let's play our second rounders and be surprised".

Neither of those scenarios are legitimate. Nor are the summer fantasies that some start PG "is a nod-and-wink cinch to sign here.

First order of business has to be to identify a PG who is available and pay that price. If Randle is part of that deal, fine.

If not, the second order of business is to re-establish a winning trajectory - get the chemistry back. Remaining trade assets (Randle included) should target Knicks friendly, chemistry valued players (eg Markus Morris, Ntilikina, Bullock, and so on).

Earlier in the season I thought Fournier was a bad signing. I'm not so sure. He might be another opportunity cost victim of the coddling of Randle.

Fournier was a bad signing. Im so sick of Scott Perry bringing in bums from Orlando. The Magic are one of the few franchises worse than ours so lets bring in players they don't want to resign.

Clean wrote:

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Can't wait until he is gone. Most of this season I been on the keep Randle just have him play as part of the team and not ISO. He is too far gone now. He has to be traded. The sooner the better.

Does CP have sources now, because he didn’t have source before. I use to have him and Macri in the “good intentions” club, but they have got burn the last two years so maybe I am wrong.

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:+1
Mirror mirror on the trade wall...nobody's biting at this at all

No GM is going to take a downsiding-season Randle with all this sudden baggage without turning it into a 1st round pick salary dump. And why are we going to expect value in return? "We here" is now "He's here"... and I don't think this FO is going to make a huge splash move anytime soon.

They're quiet and conservative. And keeping Jimmy that way as well in the midst of all this chicken little jackal yelping turmoil, when even Phil's fistful of rings couldn't do that.

You are right. There has been 1 potential scenario that was put out there that kinda sorta makes sense.

Randle to POR for Robert Covington and Larry Nance Jr.

Portland gets a talent upgrade to kinda sort keep Dame happy and it's a perceived upgrade? Covington is an UFA and if they think he is going to jet, best trade him now while you can.

NY gets Covington and he can be easily moved in separate deal, he is a good enough role player. I know nothing about Nance.

Also, POR gets under the luxury tax line.

What do you think about A.Simons? He seems to be progressing as a (very) lite Trae Young type of player? Not sure he's a point guard but as much as I would like to move on from Randle - Covington and Nance Jr seems underwhelming as we would still need a lot of help at the PG position. Supposedly the Blazers still say they are committed to Lillard (not sure why) - so maybe he's more attainable vs Brunson who I was only focused on to play with/around Randle.

Allanfan20 wrote:

Clean wrote:

wargames wrote:

Clean wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/CPTheFanchise/status/1487444872558743557

Can't wait until he is gone. Most of this season I been on the keep Randle just have him play as part of the team and not ISO. He is too far gone now. He has to be traded. The sooner the better.

Does CP have sources now, because he didn’t have source before. I use to have him and Macri in the “good intentions” club, but they have got burn the last two years so maybe I am wrong.

Good Question. I have him ranked under Begly on the reliable scale. Begley under Woj and Shams. I remember a year plus ago he said some things were in the works that ended up happening. They were not things that was easily guessable. So I don't trust him like Begley and up but he definitely has sources.

I don't remember exactly what moves he had info on because it's been too long. I do remember it stopped me from being fully skeptical of him when they happened.

I have learned to listen to CP when he talks about things he hears. He knew about Mills being fired well before it was reported by anyone else. He had a couple of other things right as well before anyone else mentioned them. He definitely has sources. Obviously he won’t state names.

Ok thank you for clarifying this is good news. That means there is a market and the Knicks can get value for Randle.

gradyandrew wrote:Knicks are more or less capped out for the next two seasons because of the deals signed last summer. I think Noel, Kemba, and Fournier for Westbrook is a deal that works. The Knicks are missing moxie and Westbrook brings it in loads. For LA, they are basically trading Westbrook for Fournier with some outside chance that Kemba and Noel can give them something. Noel's lawsuit might be a stumbling block.

Maybe Knicks go full Orlando and try to unload everyone while we reset around IQ Barrett Reddish Topping and Robinson. It seems like that plan is riskier than hoping Randle turns it around over the next 3 years.

Why would Knicks do that?
Reddish had issues in ATL and is not breaking rotation here.
Obi is a great dunker and.....?
Robinson is limited around basket and has not made first unit better.
IQ is a high usage back up right now.

I do see a possibility that maybe the Knicks do not like the fit/personalities of the guys signed. For Randle to be traded, it would have to be that Thibs and Randle are no longer on the same page.
Can't see Knicks giving up so quickly on a player they seem so convinced would work long term just a few months ago. Imo, this would be panic selling.

Knicks should ask themselves what caused such a big drop off this year? Randle is not new? For me, as I pointed out at the beginning of the year, it is because the East is much stronger. And of course Randle's bad play. However, the moves made to put Kemba and EF around Randle have not worked. I am also starting to think that we may need a better spacer and offensive threat at the 5. None of the three we have do that. We also need a better quick paced PG who can facilitate. We have NO high IQ floor general that takes control.

If we do trade Randle and some of the others mentioned, my wish list is:

Murray- we can dream
Grant- has 2 years left at $20 and $21. Young impact player. Highly skilled.
Wood- Briggs shout out. averaging 18pg cheap $13 and $13 left. Center to add on offense
Sabonis- fair contract at $18 per for three. Only 25. Can be focul point. Good passer.
Lavert- young talented. Played better when he had reins at PG.
THT-will be a breakout talent. Numbers held back playing with Westbrook and LBJ. 3 yrs left

Guys I hope get thrown in in trades:
Nunn- solid all around, friendly deal but had knee surgery
Melton- glue guy.
Muscala- good stretch.
Flynn- solid back up PG. Young. Quick and crafty

martin wrote:

TheGame wrote:I have no problem trading Randle if we get solid value. I am not interested in trading him for 60 cent on the dollar. We need to get back something really good for him. Otherwise, we are better off keeping him.

Why?

If he is toxic and brings down the play of everyone around him, why not trade him? Whether it's 60 cents or 80 cents or 90 cents on the dollar, the reality is his value could go even further down.

If you sense your stock portfolio is gonna keep going down, do you hold out or sell?

Do we think Randle is going to suddenly turn it around? IDK.

But what he is doing these days is making team play worse when he is on court.

+10000

martin wrote:

TheGame wrote:I have no problem trading Randle if we get solid value. I am not interested in trading him for 60 cent on the dollar. We need to get back something really good for him. Otherwise, we are better off keeping him.

Why?

If he is toxic and brings down the play of everyone around him, why not trade him? Whether it's 60 cents or 80 cents or 90 cents on the dollar, the reality is his value could go even further down.

If you sense your stock portfolio is gonna keep going down, do you hold out or sell?

Do we think Randle is going to suddenly turn it around? IDK.

But what he is doing these days is making team play worse when he is on court.

+100