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This is also partly on Thibs for never wanting to change but he can only do so much when Randle tanks everyone's play. Instead of trying to find BS excuses he should try lessening Randles minutes.

Clean wrote:

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This is the smoking gun evidence I wanted from the start of the season. It is hard to get since Randle is never injured but he is this teams big issue. Look at RJ I always said he is a different player when playing with people who accentuate his strengths. Don't be an idiot and trade him because he sucks playing with Randle who brings everyone down. Rose used to lead the league in +/- until he started playing with Randle because Kemba got benched.

This is also partly on Thibs for never wanting to change but he can only do so much when Randle tanks everyone's play. Instead of trying to find BS excuses he should try lessening Randles minutes.

Holy smokes. Something ain't right with him right now

Philc1 wrote:The ISO is gone for 2-4 games. How sad.

He led us to the playoffs as an All-Star last year. How awesome.

Clean wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

Philc1 wrote:The ISO is gone for 2-4 games. How sad.

He led us to the playoffs as an All-Star last year. How awesome.

Still bringing up last year when people are clearly talking about the next few games.

Yup because last year we were 17-18 after 35 games and 25-27 after 52 games.

Still already forgetting about Julius Randle's All-Star performance not even 36 games into 2021?

Two can play your game.

Clean wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

Clean wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

Philc1 wrote:The ISO is gone for 2-4 games. How sad.

He led us to the playoffs as an All-Star last year. How awesome.

Still bringing up last year when people are clearly talking about the next few games.

Yup because last year we were 17-18 after 35 games and 25-27 after 52 games.

Still already forgetting about Julius Randle's All-Star performance not even 36 games into 2021?

Two can play your game.

I understand you have to keep going back to last year because he is been so bad this year. It is all water under the bridge.

We will now be able to see how the team functions without him for a few games. This is going to be interesting.

And you keep going back to forgetting how NY was 17-18 after 35 games last year and 25-27 after 52 games last year before Julius Randle turned into an absolute animal moving forward.

And been so bad this year? You're wrong.

#1 in points.
#1 in rebounds.
#1 in assists.
#1 in Defensive Win Share.
And #2 and #3 in team blocks/steals.

His 3PT% has gone down but then again it's only been 35 games but you're wrong. He has not been "so bad" this year.

Stop trying to pretend and act as if 3 games vs. 3 below teams OKC/TORONTO/INDIANA is some type of example how the team would function "without him".

The Knicks would not have won 20 games without Julius Randle last year and would not have not even 5 wins without him this year.

Well I was sick of no playoffs for damn near 20 years.

But during Julius Randle's 1st 3 years as a Knick? We're on the verge of back to back playoffs with him as our best player.

He takes a hometown discount to become a Knicks long term? And not even 36 games following his All-Star appearance these threads are the way we thank him?

It's disgusting.

blkexec wrote:I don’t think we should sit Randle. He’s our star player. But I do think he’s the wrong type of star player for this team to reach the next level. And trae young wasn’t the only reason we lost. Randle and Thibs takes some blame for how they prepared for those double teams. We built our off season based on that series which is why we added EF and Kemba. But clearly that wasn’t the problem.

Obi is not on Randles level YET and he’s only a role player right now. Let him evolve into whatever that is. But sitting Obi for Randle is not the move I care about. Swapping Randle for a different type of star is a discussion I rather have and something I think is needed.

Even though Randle and RJ played well together last year. I still believe RJ has another level and adding a YOUNGER star with a different skill set than Randle would do wonders for this team. Maybe a defensive minded 2 way star or up and coming star. Bey from Detroit looks legit or Grant who’s becoming a great 2 way player. In fact there has been quite a few matchups that Randle had this year where his man might be a better fit on the Knicks than himself. Some of these younger star forwards have been giving Randle fits all season. Adding a future who might be less talented but could also be a better fit for the team overall.

I think Randle is great at what he does. I just don’t trust his mental makeup sometimes during the game. He seems to be affected by too many things like missed shots or bad team defense. And things we can’t see like off the court stuff. I’m married with 2 boys and there are days where my family issues affects my desk job. So I understand because in basketball I can’t afford to have those types of distractions and most players will never talk about that. He appears to allow team play and his own play mess with his energy.

Imo if you switch out Trae we win. If you switch out Randle or Thibs, we still lose.

Agree with your take on what Randle needs to work on. Have said it before that his next level is to learn how to make players around him better. There are many times he seems focussed on his own play and bulls through with little thought.

Have always liked Grant *back to days at OKC) but after you brought up his fit with RJ, I am no longer sure he would fit. Actually think Randle is a better fit as he operates more from elbows and block. At least that is where I feel his best game is. That way he is limited to one or two dribbles. The years I have watched Grant, he is one that prefers to create from the wing. Which I feel would take away from RJ. Think if Randle can get to that next level and learn how to involve RJ more on kick-outs, both would be a lot better. Of course, the fact that Randle is the lead scorer takes away from RJ's development. But do not think the Knicks are prepared to get rid of Randle or someone like him any time soon. ie. rebuild mode

Agree that RJ has another level. What most do not understand is that he has already shown many flashes of that next level. And that it is simply predicated on him making his 3 pointers. Like many wing players, it is the difference between elite and role players. RJ is already a bull at getting to the basket. He is already an excellent defender. He is already a tough-minded competitor. Think as his Bball IQ grows and his 3pt shot continues to improve, he will become elite. (Won't mention the 21 year old part) I was actually disappointed that Thibs did not put him at PG when we needed help there. Think it's a great way for players to develop a better court sense and improve Bball IQ. I remember the days when high draft picks had the luxury of learning and developing without the pressure of winning.

Philc1 wrote:

Panos wrote:You know, maybe something is going on with him given the starkness of the difference. Based on his personality from last year, I really don't believe he's just slacking because he got his contract.
Maybe there is an injury, or a substance abuse issue. Or maybe his new baby is kicking his ass. It happens.

It&;s not an injury. His 3 point shooting has simply come back down to earth this year to what it was before. Last year he shot 40%. This year he;s at around 33%. That may not seem like a huge difference but in the nba when 2-3 made 3pt FGs over the course of a game can make a difference between win or loss its significant

His 3pt percentage is one of the symptoms or results of the malaise, not the cause of the malaise itself.

SergioNYK wrote:I honestly don't care that much about the 3PT%. There are tons of guys who are not shooting well this season from last season. Guys like Duncan Robinson is down from 41% to 35%, Tobias Harris down from 39% to 30% and Tatum down form 39% to 33%.

What bothers me with Randle is the effort, the body language, the lack of hustle and the arguing with the zebras. If we saw a guy who played his butt off and stopped leaving his man wide open and making no effort to recover and not running back after turning the ball over, nobody would be on him. You watch the Randle in these areas from last season and you watch him this season and it's simply not the same. Heck, let's look at the recent games. Look how Randle played on Christmas against the Hawks versus how he played in Detroit. That's all you need to see. He's declined big time and it looks bad cause it comes across as a guy who got his money and decided to play at half the speed. No matter what the stats tell you.

The reason why I highlighted what I did is because u are seeing one of Randles main flaws and why I don’t like the offense to run through him. Randles offense and especially his 3pt shooting drives his emotions and efforts in other parts of the game. Especially this year due to the ball change and his charity contributions which are based on his 3pters made. U have to have some mental toughness to navigate this. And I’m sorry but Randle doesn’t come across as mentally tough. Physically he’s a bull.

This is one of the biggest differences with RJ and why I see more potential in RJ as a go to guy than Randle. RJ can shoot 0-10 but never show it by looking at his energy and effort plays. Then come crutch time he goes 5-6 and wins the game or brings us back.

We have the wrong type of star player (or go to player). I believe it’s that simple. Everybody is shooting worst this year, is a great point. But that doesn’t excuse his effort on bad shooting days. That doesn’t excuse his high TO rate in crunch time this season. He lets his offense dictate his defense.

Something RJ, Taj and the second unit do well? They bring the same energy regardless of their play on offense. The starting unit seems to follow Randle and allows their lack of offense to dictate their defensive energy. Maybe that’s directed at EF and Kemba but Randle needs to fix this. And hopefully sitting on the side watching will help him see what we see.