martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:I didn't think we needed to bench Kemba, just switch up the starting line up.

That's what happened?

The C spot was locked up and wouldn't have changed, no way you start Obi.

You don't switch up your best player, PF is locked up.

One can argue about moving RJ or Fournier to bench BUT

Kemba had the worst ON/OFF, so why wouldn't you start there?

I don't quite follow. I'm saying rather than banish Kemba, switch Burks if that is the direction you want to go, and let Kemba sub in.

I might have switched Rose and Kemba, and kept everything else the same.

Kemba's per 36 & per 100 numbers all look comparable to last year.

Stalwart defender? Absolutely not, but maybe he needs more time to pick up our schemes? Maybe he should be going up against second tier talent.

Wish I got paid $5M a year to make these decisions!

How? How do you sub in Kemba and play him next to Rose and IQ?

It literally just doesn't work

The move I would have made was to swap Kemba & Rose. Rose starts, Kemba off the bench.

Also, we could have tried swapping Burks and Fournier.

Regardless, we’re not playing well. RJ and Randle have regressed. There is no effort from a lot of these guys. Mitch, Noel, Taj hurt and out, playing hurt.

We’ve got a whole lot of mediocre parts, and no clear top 8 or even a top 5.

HofstraBBall wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:I didn't think we needed to bench Kemba, just switch up the starting line up.

That's what happened?

The C spot was locked up and wouldn't have changed, no way you start Obi.

You don't switch up your best player, PF is locked up.

One can argue about moving RJ or Fournier to bench BUT

Kemba had the worst ON/OFF, so why wouldn't you start there?

I don't quite follow. I'm saying rather than banish Kemba, switch Burks if that is the direction you want to go, and let Kemba sub in.

I might have switched Rose and Kemba, and kept everything else the same.

Kemba's per 36 & per 100 numbers all look comparable to last year.

Stalwart defender? Absolutely not, but maybe he needs more time to pick up our schemes? Maybe he should be going up against second tier talent.

Wish I got paid $5M a year to make these decisions!

How? How do you sub in Kemba and play him next to Rose and IQ?

It literally just doesn't work

The move I would have made was to swap Kemba & Rose. Rose starts, Kemba off the bench.

Also, we could have tried swapping Burks and Fournier.

Regardless, we’re not playing well. RJ and Randle have regressed. There is no effort from a lot of these guys. Mitch, Noel, Taj hurt and out, playing hurt.

We’ve got a whole lot of mediocre parts, and no clear top 8 or even a top 5.

Rose starting is the next move Thibs makes. He is so loyal to him and I feel that was the plan from the start. Thibs seemed like he never liked Kemba. Due to alleged bad defense. Agree that Rose in for Kemba made the most sense. I mean, you thought he could start 20 games ago but now he can't even be a PG in second unit?
Thibs did mention that he thought of keeping Kemba in the second unit but that defensive size would have been an issue. (IQ, Rose, Kemba) But again, Rose-Kemba switch would not create that issue.

But hell no!! Thibs should not be fired. That is ridiculous.

I agree it might be too early to fire Thibs- though just about every coach eventually gets fire.

The problem I have with him this year is our offense is lackluster and the effort is not there. Those are squarely on him.

Rose came in, said Kemba is the starter. But was that Thibs making the call or deferring to Rose?

Realistically, think about this. Rose is the one held over, familiar with the system and the players- he should have gone into the starting line up- Kemba should have started off the bench.

Even if we can right the ship, we're just a first round exit waiting for the play offs, at best.

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:I didn't think we needed to bench Kemba, just switch up the starting line up.

That's what happened?

The C spot was locked up and wouldn't have changed, no way you start Obi.

You don't switch up your best player, PF is locked up.

One can argue about moving RJ or Fournier to bench BUT

Kemba had the worst ON/OFF, so why wouldn't you start there?

If your a fan and don’t think,, its easy to just say ****. Reacting to a loss as a fan is easy. No accountability.

Berman cites Thibs yesterday. This makes sense. (Not endorsing Elf):

Now Walker isn’t getting any. It’s rare for a player — let alone a four-time All-Star — to go from starter to zero minutes.

Thibodeau actually did the same thing in the playoffs last spring against Atlanta when he yanked season-long starter Elfrid Payton for Game 3. Payton did not play for three straight games and the Knicks were blown out in each contest.

“If you’re going to change a rotation, you want to make sure you’re looking at it, not one game,’’ Thibodeau said. “You’re looking at it in totality.’’

Take it in the proper context This was the playoffs but he had a COY season turning the team around. It did not work. Again, nobody saying Elf would have made a difference. Im saying Kemba out might not be the true cause and he might return but it has to be effective to stick.
Fire the guy after 20 games is comical. Here is why: what does his replacement do that is different and is it a systemic issue Thibs is embroiled in or is it chemistry of team, lineups, and needing a tweek? Really, the whole culture thing, the money for coaches, etc, and you then keep this madness of hiring and firing coaches and think you ever gonna get a culture of stabilty? Player development?

I’d say after the Denver loss Randle and Thibs are having some uncomfortable convo’s

I think it would absurd to sack Thibs at this point, just for the record. I wasn't a fan of the hiring- I thought we needed more time to develop talent as well as aggregate it, but his effort last year was worthy of a NY Knick season, coach and team. I was behind them all the way. There was effort, grit and determination.

Where did that go?

Is Julius Randle the new JR (Smith)?

Is RJ Barret the next Landry Fields, Channing Frye or David Lee - good looking player, just never teases out the potential we see in them?

I think there is the ability of this team to play with heart - and that is all I want to see - anything is gravy.

But long term, we are a long way away from being a threat in the playoffs, let alone a championship contender.

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:I didn't think we needed to bench Kemba, just switch up the starting line up.

That's what happened?

The C spot was locked up and wouldn't have changed, no way you start Obi.

You don't switch up your best player, PF is locked up.

One can argue about moving RJ or Fournier to bench BUT

Kemba had the worst ON/OFF, so why wouldn't you start there?

I don't quite follow. I'm saying rather than banish Kemba, switch Burks if that is the direction you want to go, and let Kemba sub in.

I might have switched Rose and Kemba, and kept everything else the same.

Kemba's per 36 & per 100 numbers all look comparable to last year.

Stalwart defender? Absolutely not, but maybe he needs more time to pick up our schemes? Maybe he should be going up against second tier talent.

Wish I got paid $5M a year to make these decisions!

How? How do you sub in Kemba and play him next to Rose and IQ?

It literally just doesn't work

Literally no one said that

Philc1 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:I didn't think we needed to bench Kemba, just switch up the starting line up.

That's what happened?

The C spot was locked up and wouldn't have changed, no way you start Obi.

You don't switch up your best player, PF is locked up.

One can argue about moving RJ or Fournier to bench BUT

Kemba had the worst ON/OFF, so why wouldn't you start there?

I don't quite follow. I'm saying rather than banish Kemba, switch Burks if that is the direction you want to go, and let Kemba sub in.

I might have switched Rose and Kemba, and kept everything else the same.

Kemba's per 36 & per 100 numbers all look comparable to last year.

Stalwart defender? Absolutely not, but maybe he needs more time to pick up our schemes? Maybe he should be going up against second tier talent.

Wish I got paid $5M a year to make these decisions!

How? How do you sub in Kemba and play him next to Rose and IQ?

It literally just doesn't work

Literally no one said that

The person I responded to just did very indirectly, or was that leap too far for you?

Philc1 wrote:

martin wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:I didn't think we needed to bench Kemba, just switch up the starting line up.

That's what happened?

The C spot was locked up and wouldn't have changed, no way you start Obi.

You don't switch up your best player, PF is locked up.

One can argue about moving RJ or Fournier to bench BUT

Kemba had the worst ON/OFF, so why wouldn't you start there?

I don't quite follow. I'm saying rather than banish Kemba, switch Burks if that is the direction you want to go, and let Kemba sub in.

I might have switched Rose and Kemba, and kept everything else the same.

Kemba's per 36 & per 100 numbers all look comparable to last year.

Stalwart defender? Absolutely not, but maybe he needs more time to pick up our schemes? Maybe he should be going up against second tier talent.

Wish I got paid $5M a year to make these decisions!

How? How do you sub in Kemba and play him next to Rose and IQ?

It literally just doesn't work

Literally no one said that

The person I responded to just did very indirectly, or was that leap too far for you?

Are you a codebreaker as well?

are you this daft?

If you move Burks into the SL and still want to play Kemba off the bench, you run into the problem of overlapping him with Rose and IQ, you just can't stagger 3 small guards off the bench.

Bro, this isn't even checkers, you are trying tick tack toe or connect 4 and swinging and missing.

franco12 wrote:

BillTheButcher wrote:Voted last year was an outlier, we're just not that good still.........IMHO I would look to trade Randle ,Mitch and Knox ..........Randle never should have got that contract we should have made him prove it this year + RJ and him just do not fit , Mitch looks slow AF, has not jump , has to be helped off the floor like every other play I'm over it, Knox will never get playing time here ...Don't mind losing if we did it with the young guns unleash them all RJ, IQ, Obi , Grimes, Simms call up Luka and Duece .

And this was why I wanted to keep Mike Miller - I felt like we need to build up the asset base a bit more.

It's really hard to trade Randle- we just signed him.

But I think right now, no one should be off limits as far as a trade.

What does this mean? What is Miller doing?

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

BillTheButcher wrote:Voted last year was an outlier, we're just not that good still.........IMHO I would look to trade Randle ,Mitch and Knox ..........Randle never should have got that contract we should have made him prove it this year + RJ and him just do not fit , Mitch looks slow AF, has not jump , has to be helped off the floor like every other play I'm over it, Knox will never get playing time here ...Don't mind losing if we did it with the young guns unleash them all RJ, IQ, Obi , Grimes, Simms call up Luka and Duece .

And this was why I wanted to keep Mike Miller - I felt like we need to build up the asset base a bit more.

It's really hard to trade Randle- we just signed him.

But I think right now, no one should be off limits as far as a trade.

What does this mean? What is Miller doing?

I thought we weren't in a position to compete, and that is what Thibs is about. I felt we needed to play the young guys, develop them rather than bring in the Roses, the Fourniers of the world. Another lottery or two and maybe we could land the kind of talent we need to compete.

Look, Dolan's mantra has been play offs or bust. He's never been about rebuilding, even though had we actually rebuilt, we'd probably have a championship by now.

Isiah Thomas said it best- he was trying to change the engine in mid flight. With NY, there was no pulling in to the pits.

Leon Rose came in, said - I want the best coach. And we will try to win now. Except there is no franchise talent on this team, no player that steps on the court and is simply the best player out there.