foosballnick wrote:

franco12 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

franco12 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think it’s time to replace Quickley w Grimes

Too much non team basketball last 3 min Again. It’s throw it to Julius and move away.

Rose still Should be the pg the last 3 min. We could play Rose abd Kemba together with lead if needed

And lastly Obi needs ten more minutes hes gotta get 20-24

I thought Obi was really playing nicely when he got pulled - felt sudden and not in the flow.

We won, wheh. I'm not going to criticize Thibs too much, but I think the observations have merit.

I felt like Walker didn't have anything left in his tank at the end, and thought we needed Rose back out there.

Good thing we won- otherwise i would have had to post 60 win teams don't lose games like that.

We can be better than we are. IQ has not been playing well--time to give Grimes 5 games. Obi has proven to give the Knicks a shot in the arm with easy 2's. Whatever way we can find to get him to 20-24 we should. Hes 6-9 and a different type of player than anyone else on the team. Rose is still the 2nd best player on th team--sometimes the best. Hes our guy. Hes got to be in there at the end in tough games. Id be comfortable with both kemba and Rose if needed.

Yes, that would be the perfect answer to a Quickley sophmore slump. Dump the kid on the bench 5 games into the season. Should do wonders for his game. That's brilliant coaching and player development.

And when either Rose or Kemba break down because you're playing them 30 minutes each a game, I'm sure an unproven rook who Thibs doesn't have in the rotation will fill in perfectly nicely.

Next game's post: How we would be undefeated if Thibs just gave 3 point threat Knox some burn.

Where's the click bait in these threads? Oh wait...

If you were to bench IQ for a game or two - I don't know about five- and that is how he responded, then he is mentally weak and doesn't belong here - the fact is player development and coaching sometimes requires sending a message.

I feel confident Thibs has this. But you have to think eventually some kind of move will be needed - perhaps it happens in a loss where we're blown out or just not clicking.

Having a hard time understanding the obsession with benching IQ in this forum.

Not hard to understand at all.

There's a certain breed of fan who are wracked with anxiety about not winning the next game.

This type of fan doesn't know it, because this type of fan if not self-aware, but this type of fan needs a object of their anxiety, which is why no matter who is on the team, what the team's record is, or what sport the team plays, there will ALWAYS be that vocal sect of fan who can't help themselves from targeting a boogeyman.

And for these types of fans, the WORST thing you can do that triggers this response is to start slowly, or for a young player, not show immediate progression from your last season.

It's a pavlovian response. They're not even aware its happening.

franco12 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

franco12 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

franco12 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think it’s time to replace Quickley w Grimes

Too much non team basketball last 3 min Again. It’s throw it to Julius and move away.

Rose still Should be the pg the last 3 min. We could play Rose abd Kemba together with lead if needed

And lastly Obi needs ten more minutes hes gotta get 20-24

I thought Obi was really playing nicely when he got pulled - felt sudden and not in the flow.

We won, wheh. I'm not going to criticize Thibs too much, but I think the observations have merit.

I felt like Walker didn't have anything left in his tank at the end, and thought we needed Rose back out there.

Good thing we won- otherwise i would have had to post 60 win teams don't lose games like that.

We can be better than we are. IQ has not been playing well--time to give Grimes 5 games. Obi has proven to give the Knicks a shot in the arm with easy 2's. Whatever way we can find to get him to 20-24 we should. Hes 6-9 and a different type of player than anyone else on the team. Rose is still the 2nd best player on th team--sometimes the best. Hes our guy. Hes got to be in there at the end in tough games. Id be comfortable with both kemba and Rose if needed.

Yes, that would be the perfect answer to a Quickley sophmore slump. Dump the kid on the bench 5 games into the season. Should do wonders for his game. That's brilliant coaching and player development.

And when either Rose or Kemba break down because you're playing them 30 minutes each a game, I'm sure an unproven rook who Thibs doesn't have in the rotation will fill in perfectly nicely.

Next game's post: How we would be undefeated if Thibs just gave 3 point threat Knox some burn.

Where's the click bait in these threads? Oh wait...

If you were to bench IQ for a game or two - I don't know about five- and that is how he responded, then he is mentally weak and doesn't belong here - the fact is player development and coaching sometimes requires sending a message.

I feel confident Thibs has this. But you have to think eventually some kind of move will be needed - perhaps it happens in a loss where we're blown out or just not clicking.

Having a hard time understanding the obsession with benching IQ in this forum. He's averaging 6 shots in less than 14 minutes per game and only turned the ball over 3 times in 5 games. He works hard on D and his rotations have improved, hustles and maintains a significant amount of energy when on the floor. What are we benching him for and for what lesson? To shoot at a better percentage after the first 5 games? What type of lesson is that teaching a 2nd year player who is a streak shooter with unlimited range?

Do fans even understand what Thibs is driving here? He loves guys who sacrifice and of work it on D. He does not sweat shooting slumps.

You must have noticed there is a need for a scapegoat (at 4 - 1) and whipping boy. Payton (who had a solid appearance for the Suns two nights ago) is gone. Kemba was in line but has shut them up (for now). Once upon a time it was Randle but that was ages ago (unless he misses a few more foul shots). RJ one time also but is in the clear for a few more games anyway. Obi's dunks are loved although he isn't on the thickest of ice. Knox (unlike Frank for whatever reason) is just a nonentity.

So Quickley it is.

I think Briggs point is that while we're 4 & 1 (yea!) we could easily have lost 2 of those games.

You mean Briggs point is the Knicks played 2 utterly typical NBA basketball games?

Who knew?

Need more injection of youth and length

More Grimes Toppin Knox.

For now IQ could stand how to play PG with D league team Hes in the middle of positions and cant shoot

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:7 games not a slump

Need more injection of youth and length

More Grimes Toppin Knox.

For now IQ could stand how to play PG with D league team Hes in the middle of positions and cant shoot

So explain RJ's first 13 games last season if 7 games isn't a slump?

Barrett was pick 2. And while he took heat too he was a rookie. Iq was dreadful in the summer league was highly inconsistent in the playoffs— it’s no slump. We’re LUCKY to be 5-2. We’ve now been smashed twice at home by fair teams. We need adjustments

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:7 games not a slump

Need more injection of youth and length

More Grimes Toppin Knox.

For now IQ could stand how to play PG with D league team Hes in the middle of positions and cant shoot

So explain RJ's first 13 games last season if 7 games isn't a slump?

Barrett was pick 2. And while he took heat too he was a rookie. Iq was dreadful in the summer league was highly inconsistent in the playoffs— it’s no slump. We’re LUCKY to be 5-2. We’ve now been smashed twice at home by fair teams. We need adjustments

Completely agree with BRIGGS

Relying on sht that ain't working when you have options is a stubborn fool. I don't know how anyone can look at one player and expect the same from another in terms of RJ and IQ

We haven't played enough small ball even though every team we have played had a 4 guard line up on the floor for stretches, we counter that by pounding the ball into Randle for mismatch..that sht backfired more than it worked

There's so many options with this roster and within the current rotation, you should be able to adjust to any team

We have only played small ball the first 2 games when Taj was out and Mitch was winded. That lineup worked well as was a good change of pace. It may not work every night but we will never see it again unless we have an injury. Thibs will play half court ball playing the starters 35 minutes every night, that is who he is and has always been

BRIGGS wrote:7 games not a slump

Need more injection of youth and length

More Grimes Toppin Knox.

For now IQ could stand how to play PG with D league team Hes in the middle of positions and cant shoot

Have you met Thibs at all? Seen him give even Frank like 15 games before making a switch?

Barbarians are at the gate!!

Knicks should be 2-5 not 5-2!!

Stubborn Thibs doesn't know what he's doing and needs to change his ways!!

More Knox....less ISO Randle!!

Only the Rookies can save us!!

Ditch Mitch!!

If things don't turn around "Quickly".....we're doomed!!

BRIGGS wrote:

foosballnick wrote:How "Quickly" things change after a loss.....

Barbarians are at the gate!!

Knicks should be 2-5 not 5-2!!

Stubborn Thibs doesn't know what he's doing and needs to change his ways!!

More Knox....less ISO Randle!!

Only the Rookies can save us!!

Ditch Mitch!!

If things don't turn around "Quickly".....we're doomed!!

Thats ridiculous. Sitting IQ for Grimes and giving Obi more playing time is reasonable. Against the right match ups Knox can also get 5-10 min

"Thats ridiculous"......feeling is mutual. Just because you spam the forum more than most of the rest of us, does not make your points any more cereberal, valid or less ridiculous.

I'll play......let's say you are the Head Coach.......

- Knicks lost last night because of Raptors Offensive Rebounding, Points in the Paint & Turn Over Margin

- You are the coach giving Knox up to 10 minutes - why - how does he help in any way to turn those stats around? Further who's minutes are you taking away and why? (PS....Knox plays the 3/4 and is not a ball handler nor is is focus on defense).

- Obi is averaging 16 minutes per game. You want to give him more minutes (that's fair). How many more and who's minutes is he taking? Noel will be coming back taking Taj's minutes. Are you giving him Randle's minutes? What about the fact that your adding Knox to the mix for up to 10 mins?

- IQ is averaging 14 mpg. Your plan is to give Grimes those minutes. As a coach how do you manage that messaging to the entire roster? Are you putting forth a moratorium that players will be evaluated and rotated on a game to game basis (or 5 game intervals)....and players will be benched if they don't shoot well? Does that apply across the roster or just with certain players? For instance you want to give Obi more PT - but he is only shooting 0.154 from 3PT distance and sometimes struggles defensively against quicker guys. Knox has a low motor on defense, has minimal assists, virtually no blocks is not known as a good rebounder and you want to give him minutes. Given this situation as a coach - how do you convey the distribution of minutes to the team and maintain the kind of unity needed for a non-superstar roster to excel?

So to me, you're constant ADHD type need for up to the minute continual churn and changes on this roster after every game - as if this is all just a video game - are kind of ridiculous without providing meaningful analysis and discourse.

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

foosballnick wrote:How "Quickly" things change after a loss.....

Barbarians are at the gate!!

Knicks should be 2-5 not 5-2!!

Stubborn Thibs doesn't know what he's doing and needs to change his ways!!

More Knox....less ISO Randle!!

Only the Rookies can save us!!

Ditch Mitch!!

If things don't turn around "Quickly".....we're doomed!!

Thats ridiculous. Sitting IQ for Grimes and giving Obi more playing time is reasonable. Against the right match ups Knox can also get 5-10 min

"Thats ridiculous"......feeling is mutual. Just because you spam the forum more than most of the rest of us, does not make your points any more cereberal, valid or less ridiculous.

I'll play......let's say you are the Head Coach.......

- Knicks lost last night because of Raptors Offensive Rebounding, Points in the Paint & Turn Over Margin

- You are the coach giving Knox up to 10 minutes - why - how does he help in any way to turn those stats around? Further who's minutes are you taking away and why? (PS....Knox plays the 3/4 and is not a ball handler nor is is focus on defense).

- Obi is averaging 16 minutes per game. You want to give him more minutes (that's fair). How many more and who's minutes is he taking? Noel will be coming back taking Taj's minutes. Are you giving him Randle's minutes? What about the fact that your adding Knox to the mix for up to 10 mins?

- IQ is averaging 14 mpg. Your plan is to give Grimes those minutes. As a coach how do you manage that messaging to the entire roster? Are you putting forth a moratorium that players will be evaluated and rotated on a game to game basis (or 5 game intervals)....and players will be benched if they don't shoot well? Does that apply across the roster or just with certain players? For instance you want to give Obi more PT - but he is only shooting 0.154 from 3PT distance and sometimes struggles defensively against quicker guys. Knox has a low motor on defense, has minimal assists, virtually no blocks is not known as a good rebounder and you want to give him minutes. Given this situation as a coach - how do you convey the distribution of minutes to the team and maintain the kind of unity needed for a non-superstar roster to excel?

So to me, you're constant ADHD type need for up to the minute continual churn and changes on this roster after every game - as if this is all just a video game - are kind of ridiculous without providing meaningful analysis and discourse.

I’ll go like this— do you think Bill Bellichick would have a problem sitting a 3 rd tight end if he was playing poorly? Or a starting guard for that matter? Grimes is a higher talented prospect who is 6-5 and shoots the ball much better than IQ— probably a better defender. Iq is stuck between positions. He could stand time in the d league working as a primary pg. The coach is the boss who wants to make the team better. He can’t worry if feelings get hurt once in awhile— it’s just the nature of the game. Iq has not got it done— he’s erratic and shooting 25%. Time to give Grimes his minutes.

Obi is easy. He gets 12-14 min of randles minutes and 12-14 min at the 5 position. You’re not going to match him against the 3-4 premiere centers left but he will match up fine against most teams and we can play faster. He’s earned the time — he deserves more. He’s the best 2 point % player outside of Robinson but he’s way more diversified. So he’s earned expanded min. We don’t need the “ we need a pure 5 for 48 min” do we?????

Knox iq and McBride become “ situational but active”.Meaning if thibs sees mismatches or a vet that’s off— we simply go deeper into the bench. Jeff van funds wouod play 3 guards at times. We can do that to in situational spots. Thibs is a bit of a dinosaur who was saved by Derrick Rose last year. He can show situational flexibility.

lol... Im sure Quickly and the other players will appreciate that Bellichick example. Also... hows things going for that coach? Tom Brady?

There's a real lack of understanding here. Do you like Randle's improved play? The improved defense? The changes and wins since Thibs has started coaching? What Briggs doesnt seem to be able to connect is these guys play like that because they know they wont get yanked around and have the trust of the coach.

Slight alterations in line ups are normal. Getting higher talented players more minutes is natural progression. I can’t imagine most fans wouldn’t be in favor of getting obi 12 more minutes and Grimes getting IQs spot???? This wouldn’t be a discussion if it wasn’t warranted. We got beat down at home by two fair teams At Home is the danger there. Good teams don’t lose at gone to bad teams by many points that close in the schedule.

BRIGGS wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

foosballnick wrote:How "Quickly" things change after a loss.....

Barbarians are at the gate!!

Knicks should be 2-5 not 5-2!!

Stubborn Thibs doesn't know what he's doing and needs to change his ways!!

More Knox....less ISO Randle!!

Only the Rookies can save us!!

Ditch Mitch!!

If things don't turn around "Quickly".....we're doomed!!

Thats ridiculous. Sitting IQ for Grimes and giving Obi more playing time is reasonable. Against the right match ups Knox can also get 5-10 min

"Thats ridiculous"......feeling is mutual. Just because you spam the forum more than most of the rest of us, does not make your points any more cereberal, valid or less ridiculous.

I'll play......let's say you are the Head Coach.......

- Knicks lost last night because of Raptors Offensive Rebounding, Points in the Paint & Turn Over Margin

- You are the coach giving Knox up to 10 minutes - why - how does he help in any way to turn those stats around? Further who's minutes are you taking away and why? (PS....Knox plays the 3/4 and is not a ball handler nor is is focus on defense).

- Obi is averaging 16 minutes per game. You want to give him more minutes (that's fair). How many more and who's minutes is he taking? Noel will be coming back taking Taj's minutes. Are you giving him Randle's minutes? What about the fact that your adding Knox to the mix for up to 10 mins?

- IQ is averaging 14 mpg. Your plan is to give Grimes those minutes. As a coach how do you manage that messaging to the entire roster? Are you putting forth a moratorium that players will be evaluated and rotated on a game to game basis (or 5 game intervals)....and players will be benched if they don't shoot well? Does that apply across the roster or just with certain players? For instance you want to give Obi more PT - but he is only shooting 0.154 from 3PT distance and sometimes struggles defensively against quicker guys. Knox has a low motor on defense, has minimal assists, virtually no blocks is not known as a good rebounder and you want to give him minutes. Given this situation as a coach - how do you convey the distribution of minutes to the team and maintain the kind of unity needed for a non-superstar roster to excel?

So to me, you're constant ADHD type need for up to the minute continual churn and changes on this roster after every game - as if this is all just a video game - are kind of ridiculous without providing meaningful analysis and discourse.

I’ll go like this— do you think Bill Bellichick would have a problem sitting a 3 rd tight end if he was playing poorly? Or a starting guard for that matter? Grimes is a higher talented prospect who is 6-5 and shoots the ball much better than IQ— probably a better defender. Iq is stuck between positions. He could stand time in the d league working as a primary pg. The coach is the boss who wants to make the team better. He can’t worry if feelings get hurt once in awhile— it’s just the nature of the game. Iq has not got it done— he’s erratic and shooting 25%. Time to give Grimes his minutes.

Obi is easy. He gets 12-14 min of randles minutes and 12-14 min at the 5 position. You’re not going to match him against the 3-4 premiere centers left but he will match up fine against most teams and we can play faster. He’s earned the time — he deserves more. He’s the best 2 point % player outside of Robinson but he’s way more diversified. So he’s earned expanded min. We don’t need the “ we need a pure 5 for 48 min” do we?????

Knox iq and McBride become “ situational but active”.Meaning if thibs sees mismatches or a vet that’s off— we simply go deeper into the bench. Jeff van funds wouod play 3 guards at times. We can do that to in situational spots. Thibs is a bit of a dinosaur who was saved by Derrick Rose last year. He can show situational flexibility.

If you're going to make an analogy to football, at least try to make it one that calibrates appropriately. The NFL Season is roughly 5x the NBA Season. That means that every one NFL Game = 5 NBA Games. Is Belichick benching his 2nd RB, WR or TE and going with a rookie after dropping a pass or fumbling in the first game of the season that the team won? That's the analogy.

As to your philosophy on coaching not having to worry about feelings or roster harmony, I'm wondering what world you are living in these days. This isn't the 1970's. The NBA is a players league. One of the primary roles of a coach is to get players to buy in. If he loses that trust, he has nothing.

In your view Obi gets up to 12 more minutes a night and its coming from the center position. Are you taking those minutes from Mitch or Noel? Most of Obi's 2 point shots are at the rim and he is 2-13 from 3 point range (~15%). He does bring energy, speed and more fast break potential - but he is significantly less of a rim protector than Mitch/Noel. Who's minutes are being reduced? Note that the games we lost were mostly due to defense - by changing out minutes for Obi - you will be further weakening the D. Thibs knows this.

Grimes - I've stated previously that Grimes might become a good/great NBA player. But you're making definitive statements about his talent level, his shooting, defending etc - based on what? He's played less than 5 minutes total in 7 games with 5 DNPs. How do you seem to know enough about his talent comparison other players at an NBA level more than anyone else including the coaching staff?

Also - "Situational but active" generally means eligible for garbage time.

PS- "Thibs is a bit of a dinosaur who was saved by Derrick Rose last year"......this is what it really comes down to. You (as well as some other posters clamoring for change) don't really trust Thibs. Admit it, you believe yourself better or more knowledgeable at managing the roster and team than him.