And as for Embiid - I can't stand him as a player. My point naming him is that I am concerned the FO is looking for a name/star and don't think we will obtain any of the good ones (without depleting our youth/picks) and will be left with guys like Embiid who are also overvalued IMO. I hope we don't swing for any of these big players... but if the FO decides to do just that - I'd hope they include Randle instead of RJ and lots of picks.

jskinny35 wrote:I only joined the thread when a poster claimed Randle was a Top 10 player. I respect Randle and yes it's good he improved and is clearly our best player... but will continue the exchange when someone overvalues any player on our team. I really like RJ but won't pretend he's currently anything more then a very good young player that will hopefully improve.

And as for Embiid - I can't stand him as a player. My point naming him is that I am concerned the FO is looking for a name/star and don't think we will obtain any of the good ones (without depleting our youth/picks) and will be left with guys like Embiid who are also overvalued IMO. I hope we don't swing for any of these big players... but if the FO decides to do just that - I'd hope they include Randle instead of RJ and lots of picks.

Pretty much every move that this front office have made suggests they are building a foundation and stability. Yet you and others continue to bring up stress and fear about them going out and starphucking. Hence the PTSD.

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Marv wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Randle is top 10 on our team - but not close to top 10 in the NBA. Top 10 players match or exceed their regular season performance against average defensive teams - they don't struggle mightily even when they're the lone star on a so so team. Dame is a good example of this when they played the Nuggets. Name any top 10 player that shrunk in the playoffs (like Randle did) and you'll realize he's not in the top 10. Maybe top 30?

U’re 2nd team all-nba u’re top 10. by definition

If you go by position. There are at least 15 players better, maybe 20. He is a Tier 3 Star player

you are a tier 4 vet min poster at best.

how can a tier 3 star get all star nods, and voted 2 team all NBA.

I would like to see your your list of PF that played better than Randle last season

What does Julius Randle say to people that think last year was a fluke?

"[They] don't know s--t about me. You think that, have fun with that take"

Lol.

They haven’t made any panic moves, they have made trades in the draft to acquire more capital and they kept continuity.

Obviously 90% of free agents are going to wait to get every last dollar from their current team so no one is signing with the Knicks as a free agent that’s too 15.

Scoring was our biggest problem last year and we added to 18-20 point guys to start. If you look at numbers, the Rose/Kemba combination gives you elite scoring, RJ and Randle will average 20 and Fournier is gifted. Rose and Mitch make up the second best defensive combo in the league at the position and all the contracts are tradable.

They have three kids that can make a rotation hopefully in the next year and tradable assets in Obi, IQ and multiple picks.

We are actually in great shape.

Jmpasq wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Marv wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Randle is top 10 on our team - but not close to top 10 in the NBA. Top 10 players match or exceed their regular season performance against average defensive teams - they don't struggle mightily even when they're the lone star on a so so team. Dame is a good example of this when they played the Nuggets. Name any top 10 player that shrunk in the playoffs (like Randle did) and you'll realize he's not in the top 10. Maybe top 30?

U’re 2nd team all-nba u’re top 10. by definition

If you go by position. There are at least 15 players better, maybe 20. He is a Tier 3 Star player

you are a tier 4 vet min poster at best.

how can a tier 3 star get all star nods, and voted 2 team all NBA.

I would like to see your your list of PF that played better than Randle last season

My bad I meant if you don't go by position, there are more guards and wings I value over Randle. Tier 1 star players are truly transcendent players Lebron, Durant, Curry, Giannis. Is anyone here arguing that Randle is as good as the top 8 guys I listed? I think everyone can agree he isn't tier 1 correct? Next you have guys Lillard, Anthony Davis, and Jimmy Butler. Randle is closer to these players but they still have years of All Star Level and ALl NBA play on their resumes. Fans of other teams would not trade Randle straight up for anyone of these players. Once you get pat Kyrie you can start making an argument for Randle. Thats why I say he is a tier 3 star player. I think you can group him with Paul George, Tatum, Mitchell, Booker, and Towns. While he is a tier above guys like Brown and Murray.

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Giannis
4. Curry
5. Harden
6. Leonard
7. Jokic
8. Doncic
9. Embid
10. A Davis
11. D. Lillard
12. Jimmy Butler
13. Zion Williamson
14. Trae Young
15. Chris Paul
16. Bradley Beal
17. Kyrie Irving
18. Jayson Tatum
19. Devin Booker
20. Donovan Mitchell
21. Paul George
22. Julius Randle
23. Rudy Gobert
24. Karl Anthony Towns
25. Zach Lavine
26. Khris Middleton
27. Bam Adebayo
28. Jaylen Brown
29. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
30. Jamal Murray

BigDaddyG wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Marv wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Randle is top 10 on our team - but not close to top 10 in the NBA. Top 10 players match or exceed their regular season performance against average defensive teams - they don't struggle mightily even when they're the lone star on a so so team. Dame is a good example of this when they played the Nuggets. Name any top 10 player that shrunk in the playoffs (like Randle did) and you'll realize he's not in the top 10. Maybe top 30?

U’re 2nd team all-nba u’re top 10. by definition

If you go by position. There are at least 15 players better, maybe 20. He is a Tier 3 Star player

you are a tier 4 vet min poster at best.

how can a tier 3 star get all star nods, and voted 2 team all NBA.

I would like to see your your list of PF that played better than Randle last season

My bad I meant if you don't go by position, there are more guards and wings I value over Randle. Tier 1 star players are truly transcendent players Lebron, Durant, Curry, Giannis. Is anyone here arguing that Randle is as good as the top 8 guys I listed? I think everyone can agree he isn't tier 1 correct? Next you have guys Lillard, Anthony Davis, and Jimmy Butler. Randle is closer to these players but they still have years of All Star Level and ALl NBA play on their resumes. Fans of other teams would not trade Randle straight up for anyone of these players. Once you get pat Kyrie you can start making an argument for Randle. Thats why I say he is a tier 3 star player. I think you can group him with Paul George, Tatum, Mitchell, Booker, and Towns. While he is a tier above guys like Brown and Murray.

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Giannis
4. Curry
5. Harden
6. Leonard
7. Jokic
8. Doncic
9. Embid
10. A Davis
11. D. Lillard
12. Jimmy Butler
13. Zion Williamson
14. Trae Young
15. Chris Paul
16. Bradley Beal
17. Kyrie Irving
18. Jayson Tatum
19. Devin Booker
20. Donovan Mitchell
21. Paul George
22. Julius Randle
23. Rudy Gobert
24. Karl Anthony Towns
25. Zach Lavine
26. Khris Middleton
27. Bam Adebayo
28. Jaylen Brown
29. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
30. Jamal Murray

Pretty much agree with this list. I would swap George with Beal, Jokic with Leonard, and Murray don't make the list. I have guys like Sabonis, Haywood, Holiday,Westbrook, Derozan over him. Also, I have Mitchell over Booker.

Yeah Sabonis would of been the next guy on my list. Around 30 you're splitting hairs.

Jmpasq wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Marv wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Randle is top 10 on our team - but not close to top 10 in the NBA. Top 10 players match or exceed their regular season performance against average defensive teams - they don't struggle mightily even when they're the lone star on a so so team. Dame is a good example of this when they played the Nuggets. Name any top 10 player that shrunk in the playoffs (like Randle did) and you'll realize he's not in the top 10. Maybe top 30?

U’re 2nd team all-nba u’re top 10. by definition

If you go by position. There are at least 15 players better, maybe 20. He is a Tier 3 Star player

you are a tier 4 vet min poster at best.

how can a tier 3 star get all star nods, and voted 2 team all NBA.

I would like to see your your list of PF that played better than Randle last season

My bad I meant if you don't go by position, there are more guards and wings I value over Randle. Tier 1 star players are truly transcendent players Lebron, Durant, Curry, Giannis. Is anyone here arguing that Randle is as good as the top 8 guys I listed? I think everyone can agree he isn't tier 1 correct? Next you have guys Lillard, Anthony Davis, and Jimmy Butler. Randle is closer to these players but they still have years of All Star Level and ALl NBA play on their resumes. Fans of other teams would not trade Randle straight up for anyone of these players. Once you get pat Kyrie you can start making an argument for Randle. Thats why I say he is a tier 3 star player. I think you can group him with Paul George, Tatum, Mitchell, Booker, and Towns. While he is a tier above guys like Brown and Murray.

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Giannis
4. Curry
5. Harden
6. Leonard
7. Jokic
8. Doncic
9. Embid
10. A Davis
11. D. Lillard
12. Jimmy Butler
13. Zion Williamson
14. Trae Young
15. Chris Paul
16. Bradley Beal
17. Kyrie Irving
18. Jayson Tatum
19. Devin Booker
20. Donovan Mitchell
21. Paul George
22. Julius Randle
23. Rudy Gobert
24. Karl Anthony Towns
25. Zach Lavine
26. Khris Middleton
27. Bam Adebayo
28. Jaylen Brown
29. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
30. Jamal Murray

Lots of questions about your methodology. Is it for next season? Kawhi? Zion?
Next 3 seasons? LeBron? Butler?

Or some hypothetical where everyone is uninjured and at full strength?

Did you take into account games played and minutes?

Is this list objective or subjective?

TheGame wrote:

MS wrote:Honestly with the exception of passing on Halliburton the front office has hit a home run on pretty much everything they did.

They haven’t made any panic moves, they have made trades in the draft to acquire more capital and they kept continuity.

Obviously 90% of free agents are going to wait to get every last dollar from their current team so no one is signing with the Knicks as a free agent that’s too 15.

Scoring was our biggest problem last year and we added to 18-20 point guys to start. If you look at numbers, the Rose/Kemba combination gives you elite scoring, RJ and Randle will average 20 and Fournier is gifted. Rose and Mitch make up the second best defensive combo in the league at the position and all the contracts are tradable.

They have three kids that can make a rotation hopefully in the next year and tradable assets in Obi, IQ and multiple picks.

We are actually in great shape.

Totally agree. Hindsight is 20/20, so in hindsight you can nitpick some decisions but for the most part the front office has made GREAT decisions in both the draft and free agency. I already know that at least one player we passed on in the draft will blowup and in two years we will be bitching about it, but the team decided to bank on solid defensive players who can shoot, and it took chances on Sims and the European pg, who both showed promise. I plan to sit back and enjoy this season. For the first time in probably 10 years, the team is looking in great shape.

Yes, every draft will have players in hindsight that knicks, and many others will have missed on.
At the same time other will have wiffed on our players. Frank and Knox are the object of our distain but there is IQ and Mitch at were we got them.
And which teams wiffed on Randle?
RJ was a no brainer. Jury still out on OBI.
This years crop has yet to play with the Varsity so its “no comment”. I know fans feel good but thats intangible.

Are we locked in? Fans tent to think we hold players until the contract expires.
As for the list of players above Jules, its a stretch to argue. Its a fluid list. When the music stopped he was voted as a top 4 forward. He was better than Lebron last year. That does not mean he IS better, but last year he was. If LEbron plays 30 games this year, Jules playes 70, he will be better. Do playoffs matter? Yes. But not for they way they vote. Would I trade Jules for Lebron today? No. We are not good enough to support him and he can’t carry a team like he used to. If we get to trade deadline and RJ is killing it, OBI taken an incredible leap and Lebron is the piece that can win us a chip? YEs. But for this team, right here and now I take a good 5-6 older guys off the list. The young up and comers are no brainers.
But Last seaosn Jules was better than Tatum. Sure I’d trade them even up because of Tatums youth and still upside potential. See how intangables work? Tatum had a bad covid year and Boston imploded.