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Lost a little Faith in the FO
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Jimbo5
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8/3/2021  9:00 PM
After a winning season and a perceived shift in the knicks image around the league, the knicks for the nth time struck out of free agency. I dont know if the went after Kendrick Nunn but if they did and he turned the knicks down to be a back up with the lakers speaks volumes.

Im impressed with how other teams were able to improve their roster particularly the Bulls adding Ball and Derozan to their roster last year is huge although i think they over did it with the talent acquisition, too many cooks in the kitchen type of senario. Other teams have showed the ability to attract free agents.

If this is part of the FO's big end game, let go of their cap flexibility to retain their free agents essentially taking them out of the running for the free agent sweepstakes next year and improve the team by upgrading Bullock with Fournier and still have a big question mark about the team's starting point guard, with a front office filled with relationship guys it seems like its a big letdown. I think the best case scenario now is the knicks moved up from a cellar dwelling team to a team in purgatory(stuck in mediocrity).

The only way the knicks can improve now is through trades which this front office hasnt shown they have the ability to do so far. I think this front office only had a significant trade with the Jazz(Perrin connection) snd the Clippers. Why didnt the knicks persue a sign and trade with the Mavs for Bullock to get Brunson?

Maybe the knicks can still make some major moves via Trade by netting them Myles Turner and Sexton. That might be something. But with the way this front office has performed, I doubt if they can even trade for a back up player or even an end of bench type of player. This front office have done quite well since Rose took over to show patience but when it was time to make his move finally came things kinda fell flat.

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joec32033
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8/3/2021  9:43 PM
Jimbo5 wrote:After a winning season and a perceived shift in the knicks image around the league, the knicks for the nth time struck out of free agency. I dont know if the went after Kendrick Nunn but if they did and he turned the knicks down to be a back up with the lakers speaks volumes.

Im impressed with how other teams were able to improve their roster particularly the Bulls adding Ball and Derozan to their roster last year is huge although i think they over did it with the talent acquisition, too many cooks in the kitchen type of senario. Other teams have showed the ability to attract free agents.

If this is part of the FO's big end game, let go of their cap flexibility to retain their free agents essentially taking them out of the running for the free agent sweepstakes next year and improve the team by upgrading Bullock with Fournier and still have a big question mark about the team's starting point guard, with a front office filled with relationship guys it seems like its a big letdown. I think the best case scenario now is the knicks moved up from a cellar dwelling team to a team in purgatory(stuck in mediocrity).

The only way the knicks can improve now is through trades which this front office hasnt shown they have the ability to do so far. I think this front office only had a significant trade with the Jazz(Perrin connection) snd the Clippers. Why didnt the knicks persue a sign and trade with the Mavs for Bullock to get Brunson?

Maybe the knicks can still make some major moves via Trade by netting them Myles Turner and Sexton. That might be something. But with the way this front office has performed, I doubt if they can even trade for a back up player or even an end of bench type of player. This front office have done quite well since Rose took over to show patience but when it was time to make his move finally came things kinda fell flat.

It may be your opinion but there is a lot here that is not in context.

Nunn had multiple options and chose the Lakers. He didn't just turn down the Knicks. He chose the Lakers because it was his easiest path to a championship out of multiple other teams he turned down.

The next 4 paragraphs are based on the knee jerk media reactions that didn't have knowledge of contract terms.

Rose was an early Bird rights signing.
Burks, Noel, are non garaunteed contracts
Fournier has a team option after 3 years
Taj is a minimum signing

Meaning? The Knicks readily have around 8 million available. Through some avenues that can be increased to around 12. If they are able to trade Knox without taking salary back their cap room for this off season will balloon to around 17.8 million.

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Jimbo5
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8/3/2021  9:54 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/3/2021  9:59 PM
I was not sure if the knicks did go after Nunn but if they did and nothing happened the image of the knicks have not improved that much.

Again im not sure if there are any truth to this that the FO wanted cap flexibility for next year's free agents. The possibility for the salary available to ballon to 17.8 is just around half the money to be able to sign a superstar next summer.

I just feels the FO had multiple avenues to choose from to secure the starting pg need but they havent delivered and just like last year when the PG market is drying up, on the 11th hour the front office will just call Payton and resign him. Sad to say but at this point, thats now a real possibility.

At this point il be ecstatic if they somehow sign Schroder intead of Payton. Feels like i have lowered the bar of expectations yet again.

Philc1
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8/3/2021  9:59 PM
ramtour420 wrote:What can I say, I was disappointed at us not getting a PG. But the more I think of it the more I come to the conclusion that our front office absolutely must have seen a PG on the roster that would be just as good if not better FOR WHAT OUR TEAM IS ABOUT then the options that we could have had. So, Luca or McBride are going to surprise people. I don't think they would go into the next season without feeling good enough about our PG options. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here

Don’t forget about IQ. I think they continue to develop him as a PG. I can see him becoming a Jason Terry type

Philc1
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8/3/2021  10:04 PM
franco12 wrote:
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:do we know if our FO spoke with Leonard's agent(s)?

If Leonard said - I want to come to NY, did Rose tell them - sorry, we're keeping our own guys.

How does Pat Riley every year pull rabbits out of hats, and we're happy to retain Derrick 'I'm 33 and have played 20,000+ minutes and now am firmly on the downside of my career' Rose?

Versus what? Paying a fat 35 year old $90M over 3 years versus giving a guy who boosted out team to a 24-11 record while Toronto floundered?

Let this sink in. Rose, 32 given 3 year $43M. Lowry, 35 given $90M over 3 years.

I though Jimmy Butler was over rated. He goes to Maimi, and then he's an absolute monster in COVID year.

Riley added - we kept.

Look - I would not have signed Lowry. And I'm not against Rose in isolation. But we didn't really improve anything.

Bulls, Miami certainly did.

We were lucky last year, out performed- got career years out of some players. That is hard to do that year after year.

We needed to swap out and roll the dice on someone getting better.

Rose can't give us starter minutes. If we're lucky, we get 60 games, 28 mins per out of him. What are we doing for the other 57% of PG minutes? Are we going with Burks? Is Payton coming back. Is it IQ? The kid we drafted?

Fuck yes we did. Fournier over Bullock is a significant step.

I don't agree that the Bulls upgraded. Ball didn't move the needle in New Orleans and I have doubts he does much in Chicago. Miami is a well coached team and we shall see how much Lowry adds.

which version of Fournier is a significant upgrade? The 13 PPG version that played on the Celtics, or the 19 PPG version that played on a last place lottery team?

I'm not saying Fournier isn't better than Bullock, just not enough to warrent spending that kind of money.

Heck, bring back Frank and develop him into a situational 3&d wing player.

Fournier absolutely is an upgrade over Bullock and it’s not really close. Yes we overpaid him but we have a team option for year 4 of the deal and let’s face it we are still at least one major playoff run away from becoming a hot FA destination thanks to 20 years of the media relentlessly bashing us


The Rose contract is fine due to Early Bird Rights.


I wouldn’t have brought back Burks and Noel at those price points but today’s nba you need depth and it’s an 82 game season coming up

Jimbo5
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8/3/2021  10:09 PM
Philc1 wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:What can I say, I was disappointed at us not getting a PG. But the more I think of it the more I come to the conclusion that our front office absolutely must have seen a PG on the roster that would be just as good if not better FOR WHAT OUR TEAM IS ABOUT then the options that we could have had. So, Luca or McBride are going to surprise people. I don't think they would go into the next season without feeling good enough about our PG options. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here

Don’t forget about IQ. I think they continue to develop him as a PG. I can see him becoming a Jason Terry type

Im just hoping for this out come. Im also hopeful theat McBride would take over that starting spot before the Allstar break.i think there is a chance since Thibs really liked him going into the draft.

RonRon
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8/3/2021  10:12 PM
joec32033 wrote:
Jimbo5 wrote:After a winning season and a perceived shift in the knicks image around the league, the knicks for the nth time struck out of free agency. I dont know if the went after Kendrick Nunn but if they did and he turned the knicks down to be a back up with the lakers speaks volumes.

Im impressed with how other teams were able to improve their roster particularly the Bulls adding Ball and Derozan to their roster last year is huge although i think they over did it with the talent acquisition, too many cooks in the kitchen type of senario. Other teams have showed the ability to attract free agents.

If this is part of the FO's big end game, let go of their cap flexibility to retain their free agents essentially taking them out of the running for the free agent sweepstakes next year and improve the team by upgrading Bullock with Fournier and still have a big question mark about the team's starting point guard, with a front office filled with relationship guys it seems like its a big letdown. I think the best case scenario now is the knicks moved up from a cellar dwelling team to a team in purgatory(stuck in mediocrity).

The only way the knicks can improve now is through trades which this front office hasnt shown they have the ability to do so far. I think this front office only had a significant trade with the Jazz(Perrin connection) snd the Clippers. Why didnt the knicks persue a sign and trade with the Mavs for Bullock to get Brunson?

Maybe the knicks can still make some major moves via Trade by netting them Myles Turner and Sexton. That might be something. But with the way this front office has performed, I doubt if they can even trade for a back up player or even an end of bench type of player. This front office have done quite well since Rose took over to show patience but when it was time to make his move finally came things kinda fell flat.

It may be your opinion but there is a lot here that is not in context.

Nunn had multiple options and chose the Lakers. He didn't just turn down the Knicks. He chose the Lakers because it was his easiest path to a championship out of multiple other teams he turned down.

The next 4 paragraphs are based on the knee jerk media reactions that didn't have knowledge of contract terms.

Rose was an early Bird rights signing.
Burks, Noel, are non garaunteed contracts
Fournier has a team option after 3 years
Taj is a minimum signing

Meaning? The Knicks readily have around 8 million available. Through some avenues that can be increased to around 12. If they are able to trade Knox without taking salary back their cap room for this off season will balloon to around 17.8 million.

where did you see that, got links?
i just searched and haven't found anything
when burks was signed it was reported as a 3year guaranteed deal no options

burks played a lot of PG in 4quarter, Derrick Rose plays backup PG, neither are good defenders from under average to average AT BEST
we signed a team full of luxury talent when we did not answer any of our needs

joec32033
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8/3/2021  10:55 PM
RonRon wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
Jimbo5 wrote:After a winning season and a perceived shift in the knicks image around the league, the knicks for the nth time struck out of free agency. I dont know if the went after Kendrick Nunn but if they did and he turned the knicks down to be a back up with the lakers speaks volumes.

Im impressed with how other teams were able to improve their roster particularly the Bulls adding Ball and Derozan to their roster last year is huge although i think they over did it with the talent acquisition, too many cooks in the kitchen type of senario. Other teams have showed the ability to attract free agents.

If this is part of the FO's big end game, let go of their cap flexibility to retain their free agents essentially taking them out of the running for the free agent sweepstakes next year and improve the team by upgrading Bullock with Fournier and still have a big question mark about the team's starting point guard, with a front office filled with relationship guys it seems like its a big letdown. I think the best case scenario now is the knicks moved up from a cellar dwelling team to a team in purgatory(stuck in mediocrity).

The only way the knicks can improve now is through trades which this front office hasnt shown they have the ability to do so far. I think this front office only had a significant trade with the Jazz(Perrin connection) snd the Clippers. Why didnt the knicks persue a sign and trade with the Mavs for Bullock to get Brunson?

Maybe the knicks can still make some major moves via Trade by netting them Myles Turner and Sexton. That might be something. But with the way this front office has performed, I doubt if they can even trade for a back up player or even an end of bench type of player. This front office have done quite well since Rose took over to show patience but when it was time to make his move finally came things kinda fell flat.

It may be your opinion but there is a lot here that is not in context.

Nunn had multiple options and chose the Lakers. He didn't just turn down the Knicks. He chose the Lakers because it was his easiest path to a championship out of multiple other teams he turned down.

The next 4 paragraphs are based on the knee jerk media reactions that didn't have knowledge of contract terms.

Rose was an early Bird rights signing.
Burks, Noel, are non garaunteed contracts
Fournier has a team option after 3 years
Taj is a minimum signing

Meaning? The Knicks readily have around 8 million available. Through some avenues that can be increased to around 12. If they are able to trade Knox without taking salary back their cap room for this off season will balloon to around 17.8 million.

where did you see that, got links?
i just searched and haven't found anything
when burks was signed it was reported as a 3year guaranteed deal no options

burks played a lot of PG in 4quarter, Derrick Rose plays backup PG, neither are good defenders from under average to average AT BEST
we signed a team full of luxury talent when we did not answer any of our needs

smackeddog wrote:Yay, Bagely reporting:

Our deals mostly are non-guaranteed in the third year, so really 2 year deals, if needed!

~You can't run from who you are.~
Philc1
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8/3/2021  10:57 PM
Jimbo5 wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:What can I say, I was disappointed at us not getting a PG. But the more I think of it the more I come to the conclusion that our front office absolutely must have seen a PG on the roster that would be just as good if not better FOR WHAT OUR TEAM IS ABOUT then the options that we could have had. So, Luca or McBride are going to surprise people. I don't think they would go into the next season without feeling good enough about our PG options. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here

Don’t forget about IQ. I think they continue to develop him as a PG. I can see him becoming a Jason Terry type

Im just hoping for this out come. Im also hopeful theat McBride would take over that starting spot before the Allstar break.i think there is a chance since Thibs really liked him going into the draft.

McBride will be with the NBDL team in westchester. Ditto for Vildoza


If we don’t sign either Reggie or Schroeder another option is Frank on a one year deal and we - gasp- actually play him

knicks1248
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8/4/2021  10:49 AM
FO has gain my respect back overnight

kemba/rose
Fournier/IQ
RJ/Burk
Randle/Obi
Mitch/noel

If RJ, IQ, and obi level up, we can contend for a top 3 spot in the EAST

ES
martin
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8/4/2021  10:58 AM
knicks1248 wrote:FO has gain my respect back overnight

kemba/rose
Fournier/IQ
RJ/Burk
Randle/Obi
Mitch/noel

If RJ, IQ, and obi level up, we can contend for a top 3 spot in the EAST

Hmmm I got

Mitch/Noel/Taj
Randle/Obi/Knox
Fournier/Burks/Grimes
RJ/IQ
Kemba/Rose/Vildoza

Theo Pinson - 15th man

McBride, Simms 2WP
Sims - Dleague
Rokas - stash in Euro

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fishmike
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8/4/2021  11:16 AM
knicks1248 wrote:FO has gain my respect back overnight
thank god I know you had them worried
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
FrenchFreak
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8/4/2021  11:23 AM
I think you have to do a 10 man rotation with this roster. I know TT isn't a fan of load management but I'm hoping the improved depth means there's flexibility to at least reduce Randle's minutes a bit. I'd rather see him at 30-32 rather than 38 to keep him fresh. I would also like to see Rose and Kemba not play in back to backs. We gotta be healthy for the playoffs!
blkexec
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8/4/2021  11:24 AM
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:FO has gain my respect back overnight
thank god I know you had them worried

Im not sure how any Long Term Knick Fans can lose faith in this FO, after going through all the other FO options we've had in the past.

Great job....I have no complaints and look forward to this season. Seems like the eastern teams below us all got better, so this was an important addition.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
knicks1248
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8/4/2021  11:55 AM
We may have lost a little on Defense with the absence of Payton and Bullock, but we gain 20 points on offense with the addition of fournier and Kemba
ES
fishmike
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8/4/2021  11:58 AM
blkexec wrote:
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:FO has gain my respect back overnight
thank god I know you had them worried

Im not sure how any Long Term Knick Fans can lose faith in this FO, after going through all the other FO options we've had in the past.

Great job....I have no complaints and look forward to this season. Seems like the eastern teams below us all got better, so this was an important addition.

we know they tried to move up in the draft. We know they tried to pry away a couple FAs (Nunn took less to play in for LAL). When their "reach" options dried up they brought back a team that played .643 ball last year and added depth. Its a very young team still and if guys like Obi/RJ/IQ/Mitch can take forward steps next year the team will be really good (again).

Championship? No... but its not fair to send your kid to the store with $20 and be pissed when he doesnt bring home a 10lb rib roast. We did fine with what we had to work with

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
NYKMentality
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8/4/2021  1:06 PM
I was losing faith in our front office too. Until KEMBA WALKER.


We just went from a 4 seed to a 1-3 seed right alongside of Milwaukee and Brooklyn because we were always a true All-Star PG in his prime away from truly contending.

We're contenders now.

martin
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8/4/2021  1:09 PM
Man I've seen this guy in concert a few times, love this one

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Moonangie
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8/4/2021  1:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/4/2021  2:13 PM
knicks1248 wrote:FO has gain my respect back overnight

kemba/rose
Fournier/IQ
RJ/Burk
Randle/Obi
Mitch/noel

If RJ, IQ, and obi level up, we can contend for a top 3 spot in the EAST

When 1248 finally gets onboard...things are most certainly starting to turn around. LET'S GO KNICKS!!!

And agreed...that's a heckuva solid lineup right there, and there's substantial depth beyond that, too.

Philc1
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8/4/2021  2:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/4/2021  2:08 PM
NYKMentality wrote:I was losing faith in our front office too. Until KEMBA WALKER.


We just went from a 4 seed to a 1-3 seed right alongside of Milwaukee and Brooklyn because we were always a true All-Star PG in his prime away from truly contending.

We're contenders now.

I still think we end up as a 4-6 seed which is fine. Key is to remain competitive

Lost a little Faith in the FO

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