NardDogNation wrote: I think taking back Adams and Bledsoe along with Zion for Randle, 19, 21, 32, that 2023 DAL first and our future unprotected picks puts us on the road to something getting done. Don't you?

The only reason for Zion Williamson to come to NY is to play with RJB. The only way now to get Zion is to trade with a package starting with RJB/Quickley/Mass of picks and at a heavy draft pick volume that will gut the teams ability to get more help.

Let's say the Pelicans get cap clearance, to spend on what? Who is coming to team gutted without Zion?

Teams will want to wait and see how Randle does this year before they think about trading for him other than as a rental for a playoff team.

If NO put Zion on the block, they could get a better package than what the Knicks can practically offer.

NO is better off sitting on Zion for a year, eating up his marketing value, then if he keeps bucking, trade him next offseason after allowing teams draft picks to show who will pan out or not. There will be arguments they will sell high since that weight problem will derail the guys career eventually.

The Knicks don't have the asset base to trade for Zion right now. The Pelicans have no incentive to trade with the Knicks. If Zion says he will only play for the Knicks, then NO is best served to wait to see how this years Knicks draft picks do in actual NBA season play. The same reasons you don't want to give Randle the full max is the same reason why NO won't want to give it to him either.

Down the road, yes, it's possible but not very likely this offseason and this year.

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Would the Pelicans be willing to give us the 10th pick if we took back Eric Bledsoe AND Steven Adams? They've already got a bevy of youth and don't necessarily need more. What they are beginning to lack is cap space/flexibility, which we can provide by taking back those bad contracts. They should allow them to be able to keep both Lonzk Ball and Josh Hart, without worrying about luxury tax implications down the road.

I like Steven Adams- seems like a good ****- and would excel under Thibs. I don't like Eric Bledsoe but he'd still be an upgrade on Elfrid Payton and be useful during the regular season. Thibs has had a track record of turning around the careers of (attack-heavy) PGs (Nate Robinson, Jannero Pargo, DJ Augustin, etc); maybe he can do the same for Bledsoe. If not, we already have Immanuel Quickley and Luca Valdoza in the fold and will likely be bringing back Derrick Rose. That's plenty of PG depth to cycle off of Bledsoe if he flames out come playoff time.

Could be something there. Adams/Ball as a trade package alone is intriguing.

If rumors are true, NO is willing to let Lonzo go. No need to take on Adams and his salary. Even if the Knicks tried to go that route, Chicago is waiting their to give Lonzo a big offer. Also, pick 10 isn't enough for me to take on Bledsoe and Adams. The talent drop after 10 just isn't big enough for me to gunk up the salary cap. I'll also add that I'm not really big on giving Lonzo a big deal.

I've heard those rumors. If they are true, are they letting Lonzo go for talent reaaons or financial? While his shortcomings are obvious, he is still a good ball player, entering his prime. In that situation, you should always try to protect the asset for a later play at the least (like what the Kings should've done with Bogdanovic). He also seems tight with the Pelicans' youth, especially Josh Hart and Zion. I don't think you risk rocking the boat with the players you still have on roster, if you have the ability to keep Lonzo and everyone else happy.

As for us, Bledsoe and Adams are only under contract for 2 more seasons at $35-$36M per. They are overpaid but useful, especially with the way Thibs coaches. Why not take the gamble when there aren't very many gamechangers projected to be available these two upcoming offseasons? And even if they were, we'd have a bunch of cap space to work with only Julius Randle being costly. James Boughknight and Jalen Johnson don't excite you at 10?

Jalen Johnson? Not really. His floor is scary low. Nobody talks about his on ball defense and his post defense. His recognition and defensive discipline also looked spotty. He's raw and I don't think anyone can give a definitive answer on his jumpshot based on the limited attempts he took ar Duke. I like Bouknight, but I think he goes before pick 10.

I hear you about Jalen Johnson. I have a bias for Duke players, so some of that might be at play in my evaluatio of him. Having guys like Johnny O'Bryant on staff makes me feel like those flaws can be corrected over time. Swingmen are at such a premium in the league that players with his skillset and physical profile feel like necessary gambles.

I agree about Boughknight but we'd be in striking distance to move up if he goes aheads of us. Some combination of 19, 21 and 32 could be used to sweeten the pot in that scenario.

Yeah, but I'm not sure I just wouldn't be happy with a combination of Cooper, Mann, McBride, Kispert, Hyland, Butler, in Jackson etc. I like Bouknight, but I see a solid starter, not a star.

ramtour420 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Was hoping for this. Any chance of it happening before Zion's rookie contract expires? What would we need to attach to Randle to facilitate it, if possible?

Gayle Benson will drive tampering charges against any team that Zion says he wants to be traded to during his rookie contract. And she would be right. Everyone tampers but the NBA in general has simply pretended not to look when it's star players/impact players and that talk generates a lot of buzz in the national press.

NO has been dicked around a lot by the league. Chris Paul forced his way out, but the league interfered over and over again. With new ownership, they were gifted AD, who forced his way out and LBJ openly tampered in an ugly way. They were gifted Zion to make up for AD and now he wants out before his rookie deal is over.

As a woman, she'll just say that a boys club of billionaire bigots are ****ing over a woman. She'll say the league ****ed over Gail Miller and forced her out too. Good luck surviving that.

It could be fairly argued that the rest of the owners are intentionally driving the Pelicans against a wall trying to get Benson to sell while relocating the team to a more profitable zone. The odds of her moving the team are not very good. If the Pelicans go for a sizeable price, of course they will be gifted another superstar in the draft and they'll be moved and the new owner will take the PR hit for moving the team. Every time an NBA franchise sells for a record price, the valuation of ALL NBA franchises upticks.

And if NBA owners love anything, it's more money.

It could happen but the Knicks don't have the assets for it. Maybe if they hit bonkers in this draft like the Pistons did last year that narrative will change.

I don't think a package around Randle will get it done.

It could happen but it's very likely to be a very ugly saga and the Knicks simply need to draft out of this world in this draft to have a chance.

Isn't Gayle Benson something of a golddigger? I recall hearing stories how she came into money, twice, through marriage. Her most recent marriage (and death of her husband) is how she inherited the Pelicans/Saints which gives me the impression she doesn't really give a **** about them beyond an asset play. To be honest, it's felt like her husband didn't give much of a **** about thr Pelicans, beyond an asset play either. I think they are only team in the league that doesn't have their own practice or training facilities; instead sharing space with the Saints. Doesn't come as a shock why they are league leaders in games missed every season if that's the case.

I imagine that all of that as well as shotty personnel decisions is why Zion is rumored to be looking for the nearest exit. Dude didn't even crack the top-15 in jersey sales despite being one of the most electric players in the league. I even wonder how much draw he'll have at the box office in post-Covid NO, since that city seems wholly indifferent to basketball. All that has me wondering how wedded the Pelicans are to Zion as well. I know it'd take a hellacious package to get something done but think its possible if we can improve their team, while lowering their payroll. I think taking back Adams and Bledsoe along with Zion for Randle, 19, 21, 32, that 2023 DAL first and our future unprotected picks puts us on the road to something getting done. Don't you?

Randle for Zion swap would be one of very few scenarios where I would even entertain the thought of trading our cornerstone. But that deal seems way off. Are we even getting the best player in that deal? I mean best player right now? I understand Zions potential. Then we are taking back those contracts which is worth a good first round pick. Then we give 4 picks plus future unprotected? That's too much , even for Zion.

Zion is younger and under control for longer on a rookie deal. From a cap standpoint alone the move is justified and we would suddenly become the hot free agency destination

Pels would ask for multiple first round picks plus IQ

Philc1 wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Was hoping for this. Any chance of it happening before Zion's rookie contract expires? What would we need to attach to Randle to facilitate it, if possible?

Gayle Benson will drive tampering charges against any team that Zion says he wants to be traded to during his rookie contract. And she would be right. Everyone tampers but the NBA in general has simply pretended not to look when it's star players/impact players and that talk generates a lot of buzz in the national press.

NO has been dicked around a lot by the league. Chris Paul forced his way out, but the league interfered over and over again. With new ownership, they were gifted AD, who forced his way out and LBJ openly tampered in an ugly way. They were gifted Zion to make up for AD and now he wants out before his rookie deal is over.

As a woman, she'll just say that a boys club of billionaire bigots are ****ing over a woman. She'll say the league ****ed over Gail Miller and forced her out too. Good luck surviving that.

It could be fairly argued that the rest of the owners are intentionally driving the Pelicans against a wall trying to get Benson to sell while relocating the team to a more profitable zone. The odds of her moving the team are not very good. If the Pelicans go for a sizeable price, of course they will be gifted another superstar in the draft and they'll be moved and the new owner will take the PR hit for moving the team. Every time an NBA franchise sells for a record price, the valuation of ALL NBA franchises upticks.

And if NBA owners love anything, it's more money.

It could happen but the Knicks don't have the assets for it. Maybe if they hit bonkers in this draft like the Pistons did last year that narrative will change.

I don't think a package around Randle will get it done.

It could happen but it's very likely to be a very ugly saga and the Knicks simply need to draft out of this world in this draft to have a chance.

Isn't Gayle Benson something of a golddigger? I recall hearing stories how she came into money, twice, through marriage. Her most recent marriage (and death of her husband) is how she inherited the Pelicans/Saints which gives me the impression she doesn't really give a **** about them beyond an asset play. To be honest, it's felt like her husband didn't give much of a **** about thr Pelicans, beyond an asset play either. I think they are only team in the league that doesn't have their own practice or training facilities; instead sharing space with the Saints. Doesn't come as a shock why they are league leaders in games missed every season if that's the case.

I imagine that all of that as well as shotty personnel decisions is why Zion is rumored to be looking for the nearest exit. Dude didn't even crack the top-15 in jersey sales despite being one of the most electric players in the league. I even wonder how much draw he'll have at the box office in post-Covid NO, since that city seems wholly indifferent to basketball. All that has me wondering how wedded the Pelicans are to Zion as well. I know it'd take a hellacious package to get something done but think its possible if we can improve their team, while lowering their payroll. I think taking back Adams and Bledsoe along with Zion for Randle, 19, 21, 32, that 2023 DAL first and our future unprotected picks puts us on the road to something getting done. Don't you?

Randle for Zion swap would be one of very few scenarios where I would even entertain the thought of trading our cornerstone. But that deal seems way off. Are we even getting the best player in that deal? I mean best player right now? I understand Zions potential. Then we are taking back those contracts which is worth a good first round pick. Then we give 4 picks plus future unprotected? That's too much , even for Zion.

Zion is younger and under control for longer on a rookie deal. From a cap standpoint alone the move is justified and we would suddenly become the hot free agency destination

Pels would ask for multiple first round picks plus IQ

IQ plus a plethora of picks, sure. But what was suggested by NardDogNation just seems excessive to me

y2zipper wrote:I feel the opposite way: the 2022 free agency class projection is way too good to be discussing taking on bad contracts and forfeiting the chance to play there unless you're getting like pick 1 or 2. You have to keep space when the market is open.

It's tough to say how that class will actually turn out. Its always possible guys sign extensions get injured, etc. Last season this years class was headlined by Giannis, CP, and Oladipo. Things change.

ramtour420 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Was hoping for this. Any chance of it happening before Zion's rookie contract expires? What would we need to attach to Randle to facilitate it, if possible?

Gayle Benson will drive tampering charges against any team that Zion says he wants to be traded to during his rookie contract. And she would be right. Everyone tampers but the NBA in general has simply pretended not to look when it's star players/impact players and that talk generates a lot of buzz in the national press.

NO has been dicked around a lot by the league. Chris Paul forced his way out, but the league interfered over and over again. With new ownership, they were gifted AD, who forced his way out and LBJ openly tampered in an ugly way. They were gifted Zion to make up for AD and now he wants out before his rookie deal is over.

As a woman, she'll just say that a boys club of billionaire bigots are ****ing over a woman. She'll say the league ****ed over Gail Miller and forced her out too. Good luck surviving that.

It could be fairly argued that the rest of the owners are intentionally driving the Pelicans against a wall trying to get Benson to sell while relocating the team to a more profitable zone. The odds of her moving the team are not very good. If the Pelicans go for a sizeable price, of course they will be gifted another superstar in the draft and they'll be moved and the new owner will take the PR hit for moving the team. Every time an NBA franchise sells for a record price, the valuation of ALL NBA franchises upticks.

And if NBA owners love anything, it's more money.

It could happen but the Knicks don't have the assets for it. Maybe if they hit bonkers in this draft like the Pistons did last year that narrative will change.

I don't think a package around Randle will get it done.

It could happen but it's very likely to be a very ugly saga and the Knicks simply need to draft out of this world in this draft to have a chance.

Isn't Gayle Benson something of a golddigger? I recall hearing stories how she came into money, twice, through marriage. Her most recent marriage (and death of her husband) is how she inherited the Pelicans/Saints which gives me the impression she doesn't really give a **** about them beyond an asset play. To be honest, it's felt like her husband didn't give much of a **** about thr Pelicans, beyond an asset play either. I think they are only team in the league that doesn't have their own practice or training facilities; instead sharing space with the Saints. Doesn't come as a shock why they are league leaders in games missed every season if that's the case.

I imagine that all of that as well as shotty personnel decisions is why Zion is rumored to be looking for the nearest exit. Dude didn't even crack the top-15 in jersey sales despite being one of the most electric players in the league. I even wonder how much draw he'll have at the box office in post-Covid NO, since that city seems wholly indifferent to basketball. All that has me wondering how wedded the Pelicans are to Zion as well. I know it'd take a hellacious package to get something done but think its possible if we can improve their team, while lowering their payroll. I think taking back Adams and Bledsoe along with Zion for Randle, 19, 21, 32, that 2023 DAL first and our future unprotected picks puts us on the road to something getting done. Don't you?

Randle for Zion swap would be one of very few scenarios where I would even entertain the thought of trading our cornerstone. But that deal seems way off. Are we even getting the best player in that deal? I mean best player right now? I understand Zions potential. Then we are taking back those contracts which is worth a good first round pick. Then we give 4 picks plus future unprotected? That's too much , even for Zion.

Zion is younger and under control for longer on a rookie deal. From a cap standpoint alone the move is justified and we would suddenly become the hot free agency destination

Pels would ask for multiple first round picks plus IQ

IQ plus a plethora of picks, sure. But what was suggested by NardDogNation just seems excessive to me

There’s no reason for us to be desperate. Yeah we probably take a step back next season and will be a 7-8 seed but I don’t care I want long term a shot at a title. Only way that happens is we have that one great offseason where the superstars actually sign with us instead of with Brooklyn or one of the California teams instead

LivingLegend wrote:NO has both S Adams and Bledsoe —- along with 10th pick.

Something like a Adams and #10 for Knox & 21 might work.

Maybe select a Moses Moody and Adams replaces Noel - also gives flexibility if Mitch trades are being considered.

Something similar with Bledsoe could work and Bledsoe 2nd year I think is only $5M guarantee but not sure #10’would be as obtainable in Bledsoe deal

This ended up being some prescient ****, except to Memphis not NY.