franco12 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

franco12 wrote:there is no reason Obi and Randle can't be on the floor together, with one playing center, when the clippers are using Nicolas Batum as a center- and he is 32, so if either are weaker or slower than him, then they shouldn't be in the league. I'm not saying that is your starting line up- just saying they should find time to invest in Obi next year, and if they can't, trade him for something that can contribute.

Problem is Thibs loves traditional defensive rim protecting centers. That’s not Obi’s style of play. Obi would have to play C to run with Randle for it to work. Neither of them can guard wings.

If you have Randle or Obi at the 3 the other team would go with a smaller 3 guard alignment and run wild

I suspect you are right about Thibs- I'd like to think we can retain Noel and Robinson develops more as a player. I'm not saying that you play Obi exclusively there- but somehow we have to find minutes for him next year. And if we can't, trade him for someone that can help.

How can you retain Randle, Noel and Robinson, and still try and give OBI more minutes?

Why not use him in a trade to upgrade another position of need instead of giving him token minutes for another yr.

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

franco12 wrote:there is no reason Obi and Randle can't be on the floor together, with one playing center, when the clippers are using Nicolas Batum as a center- and he is 32, so if either are weaker or slower than him, then they shouldn't be in the league. I'm not saying that is your starting line up- just saying they should find time to invest in Obi next year, and if they can't, trade him for something that can contribute.

Problem is Thibs loves traditional defensive rim protecting centers. That’s not Obi’s style of play. Obi would have to play C to run with Randle for it to work. Neither of them can guard wings.

If you have Randle or Obi at the 3 the other team would go with a smaller 3 guard alignment and run wild

I suspect you are right about Thibs- I'd like to think we can retain Noel and Robinson develops more as a player. I'm not saying that you play Obi exclusively there- but somehow we have to find minutes for him next year. And if we can't, trade him for someone that can help.

How can you retain Randle, Noel and Robinson, and still try and give OBI more minutes?

Why not use him in a trade to upgrade another position of need instead of giving him token minutes for another yr.

The guy the Knicks should be looking to trade is Randle.

Philc1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

franco12 wrote:there is no reason Obi and Randle can't be on the floor together, with one playing center, when the clippers are using Nicolas Batum as a center- and he is 32, so if either are weaker or slower than him, then they shouldn't be in the league. I'm not saying that is your starting line up- just saying they should find time to invest in Obi next year, and if they can't, trade him for something that can contribute.

Problem is Thibs loves traditional defensive rim protecting centers. That’s not Obi’s style of play. Obi would have to play C to run with Randle for it to work. Neither of them can guard wings.

If you have Randle or Obi at the 3 the other team would go with a smaller 3 guard alignment and run wild

I suspect you are right about Thibs- I'd like to think we can retain Noel and Robinson develops more as a player. I'm not saying that you play Obi exclusively there- but somehow we have to find minutes for him next year. And if we can't, trade him for someone that can help.

How can you retain Randle, Noel and Robinson, and still try and give OBI more minutes?

Why not use him in a trade to upgrade another position of need instead of giving him token minutes for another yr.

The guy the Knicks should be looking to trade is Randle.

I might lean towards trading Robinson since he has yet to show he can last a season undinged. He certainly isn't as worrying as KP was when he was with us - but it certainly is getting there.

Philc1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

franco12 wrote:there is no reason Obi and Randle can't be on the floor together, with one playing center, when the clippers are using Nicolas Batum as a center- and he is 32, so if either are weaker or slower than him, then they shouldn't be in the league. I'm not saying that is your starting line up- just saying they should find time to invest in Obi next year, and if they can't, trade him for something that can contribute.

Problem is Thibs loves traditional defensive rim protecting centers. That’s not Obi’s style of play. Obi would have to play C to run with Randle for it to work. Neither of them can guard wings.

If you have Randle or Obi at the 3 the other team would go with a smaller 3 guard alignment and run wild

I suspect you are right about Thibs- I'd like to think we can retain Noel and Robinson develops more as a player. I'm not saying that you play Obi exclusively there- but somehow we have to find minutes for him next year. And if we can't, trade him for someone that can help.

How can you retain Randle, Noel and Robinson, and still try and give OBI more minutes?

Why not use him in a trade to upgrade another position of need instead of giving him token minutes for another yr.

The guy the Knicks should be looking to trade is Randle.

why?

TripleThreat wrote:

franco12 wrote:
And I would like to see Thibs try to use Obi. I'm tired of watching him stand in the corner.
Run plays for him, get the team to get out in transition.

Explain how.

Toppin can't space the floor. I question if he can even pick and pop at a league average level. He can't defend the rim. He can't defend out on the perimeter. He can't create his own shot. He's actually a pretty decent passer but that's negated by the glaring issue that his handle is broken. He's not a high BBIQ player. He'd be completely terrorized against the pick and roll. Anyone with an average first step will blow past him. He's not strong enough to play in the low post. If you got him the ball there, he doesn't operate well in space nor close contact. His timing is atrocious.

His footwork is ****. Which is the building block upon which all other woe happens for him. It's an overall tax on his game. It punishes each and every single thing he does on the court.

The Knicks drafted an offense only player who sucks at anything related to the offense. How do you use that kind of player?

How about Toppin EARNING MORE MINUTES. Not being given them, but EARNING THEM. If you are only getting five minutes a game, do something good and noteworthy in those five minutes. Make the most of what you have before one engages in the blame game.

Best way to get into transition is making defensive stops and compromising the other team's ball security. Can Toppin help with that? No, he can't.

If Toppin doesn't want to stand in a corner, he has to show he can actually do something else. Tell us what that something else will be. I want him to succeed, we all love this team and want him to succeed, but I just don't see how he does with all his limitations.

All of this was pretty obvious on his college tape. I still don't see the attraction. Really he needs to get stronger in his lower body because his only hope is as a small ball 5. Center is by far his best position. It mitigates some of his more obvious issues especially as a ball handler. He might have some success with 2nd chance points and lobs if he sets up in the paint. However I feel like you can find comparable offensive options and certainly better defensive options so whats the point.

knicks1248 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

franco12 wrote:
And I would like to see Thibs try to use Obi. I'm tired of watching him stand in the corner.
Run plays for him, get the team to get out in transition.

Explain how.

Toppin can't space the floor. I question if he can even pick and pop at a league average level. He can't defend the rim. He can't defend out on the perimeter. He can't create his own shot. He's actually a pretty decent passer but that's negated by the glaring issue that his handle is broken. He's not a high BBIQ player. He'd be completely terrorized against the pick and roll. Anyone with an average first step will blow past him. He's not strong enough to play in the low post. If you got him the ball there, he doesn't operate well in space nor close contact. His timing is atrocious.

His footwork is ****. Which is the building block upon which all other woe happens for him. It's an overall tax on his game. It punishes each and every single thing he does on the court.

The Knicks drafted an offense only player who sucks at anything related to the offense. How do you use that kind of player?

How about Toppin EARNING MORE MINUTES. Not being given them, but EARNING THEM. If you are only getting five minutes a game, do something good and noteworthy in those five minutes. Make the most of what you have before one engages in the blame game.

Best way to get into transition is making defensive stops and compromising the other team's ball security. Can Toppin help with that? No, he can't.

If Toppin doesn't want to stand in a corner, he has to show he can actually do something else. Tell us what that something else will be. I want him to succeed, we all love this team and want him to succeed, but I just don't see how he does with all his limitations.

All of this was pretty obvious on his college tape. I still don't see the attraction. Really he needs to get stronger in his lower body because his only hope is as a small ball 5. Center is by far his best position. It mitigates some of his more obvious issues especially as a ball handler. He might have some success with 2nd chance points and lobs if he sets up in the paint. However I feel like you can find comparable offensive options and certainly better defensive options so whats the point.

Both of you are so right.

Just don't understand letting Kira, Cole and haliburton go by for a athletic but limited PF, a position we had solidified already. Even if Randles wasn't on the roster, he's certainly not starter level.

You don’t understand that most rookies don’t start?
You don’t understand that Randle(s) has an team option year? That year one was not great? Maybe we let him walk?
You don’t understand that making these comments a year later after the fact presumes you know the outcomes?
You don’t understand becuase you don’t know Randle(s) was gonna be an allstar. You don’t know if the college player of the year taken at 8 is all you hope.
Maybe a season later you do.

knicks1248 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

franco12 wrote:there is no reason Obi and Randle can't be on the floor together, with one playing center, when the clippers are using Nicolas Batum as a center- and he is 32, so if either are weaker or slower than him, then they shouldn't be in the league. I'm not saying that is your starting line up- just saying they should find time to invest in Obi next year, and if they can't, trade him for something that can contribute.

Problem is Thibs loves traditional defensive rim protecting centers. That’s not Obi’s style of play. Obi would have to play C to run with Randle for it to work. Neither of them can guard wings.

If you have Randle or Obi at the 3 the other team would go with a smaller 3 guard alignment and run wild

I suspect you are right about Thibs- I'd like to think we can retain Noel and Robinson develops more as a player. I'm not saying that you play Obi exclusively there- but somehow we have to find minutes for him next year. And if we can't, trade him for someone that can help.

How can you retain Randle, Noel and Robinson, and still try and give OBI more minutes?

Why not use him in a trade to upgrade another position of need instead of giving him token minutes for another yr.

The guy the Knicks should be looking to trade is Randle.

why?

Obi is younger and under a long term control at a cheap rookie scale contract. Julius right now his trade value is at an all time high

Not saying it’s going to happen but Randle and a pick for Lillard or even Ben Simmons with all his baggage is something we should seriously consider

TripleThreat wrote:

Philc1 wrote:
The same people killing Obi are the same people who last year said RJ sucked, was slow and couldn’t shoot. I look forward to this playing out

How is it playing out now?

Toppin can't space the floor.

Toppin can't even pick and pop at a league average level.

Toppin can't defend the rim.

Toppin can't defend out on the perimeter.

Toppin can't create his own shot.

Toppin's handle is broken.

Toppin is not a high BBIQ player.

Toppin would be completely terrorized against the pick and roll.

Anyone with an average first step will blow past Toppin.

Toppin is not strong enough to play in the low post.

Toppin doesn't operate well in space nor in close contact.

Toppin's timing is atrocious.

Toppin's footwork is ****.

How often do these things magically get better for an older prospect in the NBA?

Some of these issues are FUNDAMENTALS.

In order for Toppin to get to his "ceiling", he will need volume minutes and be the focal point of the offense, where he's not skilled enough to carry the offense, all while giving up a massive number of points on the other end of the court. That's his "ceiling". helping the Knicks lose games instead of winning them.

Toppin brings more questions than answers. I'd argue he brings ZERO ANSWERS TO THIS TEAM RIGHT NOW.

That's not the point of an early lottery pick. The point of an early lottery pick is to find a player who BRINGS MORE ANSWERS THAN HE DOES NEGATIVE TRADEOFFS.

I have yet to see even one person explain even one practical and cogent reason/pathway where Toppin helps this team wins basketball games for the long term. Not one. Not one single functional reason that makes any kind of actual real world basketball logic.

Yes, Toppin at 30-35 minutes a game will get you 15 points and maybe a highlight dunk every three games. Then he will give up 50 points a night on defense every game. Would you like the Frank Jacksons and Isaac Bongas of the world to have career games against the Knicks as such? Because Toppin would make Bonga look like prime Allen Iverson on offense.

But he can run fast in a straight line and jump high! OK, then he should be doing track and field, not flailing on defense while mediocre NBA players are cooking him alive every night.

Someone, anyone, right now - List a practical NBA baseline skill that Toppin possesses that translates into value into the modern Space And Pace style game.

Thanks for the ESPN lazy knick hate talking points

It’s funny how up until this season started you guys were relentlessly killing Randle with the same sucks he’s a loser can’t shoot rubbish

Philc1 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Philc1 wrote:
The same people killing Obi are the same people who last year said RJ sucked, was slow and couldn’t shoot. I look forward to this playing out

How is it playing out now?

Toppin can't space the floor.

Toppin can't even pick and pop at a league average level.

Toppin can't defend the rim.

Toppin can't defend out on the perimeter.

Toppin can't create his own shot.

Toppin's handle is broken.

Toppin is not a high BBIQ player.

Toppin would be completely terrorized against the pick and roll.

Anyone with an average first step will blow past Toppin.

Toppin is not strong enough to play in the low post.

Toppin doesn't operate well in space nor in close contact.

Toppin's timing is atrocious.

Toppin's footwork is ****.

How often do these things magically get better for an older prospect in the NBA?

Some of these issues are FUNDAMENTALS.

In order for Toppin to get to his "ceiling", he will need volume minutes and be the focal point of the offense, where he's not skilled enough to carry the offense, all while giving up a massive number of points on the other end of the court. That's his "ceiling". helping the Knicks lose games instead of winning them.

Toppin brings more questions than answers. I'd argue he brings ZERO ANSWERS TO THIS TEAM RIGHT NOW.

That's not the point of an early lottery pick. The point of an early lottery pick is to find a player who BRINGS MORE ANSWERS THAN HE DOES NEGATIVE TRADEOFFS.

I have yet to see even one person explain even one practical and cogent reason/pathway where Toppin helps this team wins basketball games for the long term. Not one. Not one single functional reason that makes any kind of actual real world basketball logic.

Yes, Toppin at 30-35 minutes a game will get you 15 points and maybe a highlight dunk every three games. Then he will give up 50 points a night on defense every game. Would you like the Frank Jacksons and Isaac Bongas of the world to have career games against the Knicks as such? Because Toppin would make Bonga look like prime Allen Iverson on offense.

But he can run fast in a straight line and jump high! OK, then he should be doing track and field, not flailing on defense while mediocre NBA players are cooking him alive every night.

Someone, anyone, right now - List a practical NBA baseline skill that Toppin possesses that translates into value into the modern Space And Pace style game.

Thanks for the ESPN lazy knick hate talking points

It’s funny how up until this season started you guys were relentlessly killing Randle with the same sucks he’s a loser can’t shoot rubbish

You mean like this hard hitting analysis (of course 0- aside from the continual misogynistic theme in his posts).

TripleThreat wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Giving Randle away is a silly. He has value.

If the Knicks could trade Randle to another team and into their empty cap space, for the rights to a Euro Stash who would never play in the NBA, they would do it. They would say Yes so fast over the phone it would sound like a grunt you make while taking a big ****. Trust me, trading Randle right now would feel like taking a big **** from the Knicks front office.

When a miserable woman gets divorced, she heads right to the gym. She's gonna get in shape so she can reel in a new sucker. Once she's reeled him in, she's gonna get fat and comfortable again. That's Julius Randle. He'll try when he knows a contract is coming up, once he's got a little security, he plays like a total *******.

He's the worst kind of player. He blocks minutes/a roster spot from you auditioning young longshot hopefuls. He generates just enough wins to ruin your tanking. He's plays like an ******* so he kills morale in your locker room. He ball stops enough to choke the development of your younger players. He's got tanked trade value so you are just stuck with him. Since he won't listen to the coach, he is a tax on the sanity of any coach on your team. I can live with a guy who just isn't all that good but actually pushes effort. But Randle just doesn't give a ****.

If you were lost on a desert island with Julius Randle, he's the kind of low rent nipple hair that would steal your little daughters Hannah Montana lunch box to steal her animal crackers. Then he'd take a **** in it. Then he'd give it back to your daughter and scream at her until she said Thank You King Julius.

Just to keep that ball stopping choad away from the rookies, it's worth it to dump him.

Philc1 wrote:Cant say I won’t enjoy watching Obi make a lot of people look stupid next year

For the third time - List a practical NBA baseline skill that Toppin possesses that translates into value into the modern Space And Pace style game.

TripleThreat wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Cant say I won’t enjoy watching Obi make a lot of people look stupid next year

For the third time - List a practical NBA baseline skill that Toppin possesses that translates into value into the modern Space And Pace style game.

Scoring, rebounding and athleticism?

It’s not his fault the PF ahead of him on the depth chart played MVP caliber basketball the entire regular season and correspondingly led the league in minutes