fwk00 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

fwk00 wrote:https://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2021/06/a-surprising-disappointing-season.html

Good realistic take. Naturally nobody knows what next year brings given the moves that can be done. We tent to over think the potential of starphck moves or that we can make some meaningful trades.
Even if we improve, other team will not stand pat.
Boston still has a core.
Miami could bounce back.
Charlotte has room to improve internally and make some trades.
Cleveland rocks, Cleveland rocks……Can’t suck forever
Indy had issues this year.
ATL…….

I can easy see us get better but fall in seedlings.

I think Capella and Collins stuck a pin in Thibs's balloon so to speak. The Knicks aren't surprising anyone next year. The word is out.

Yes. Other teams that experienced hick-ups will regroup.

But A LOT of things went right for the Knicks this year that won't be an easy train to catch next year.

And, realistic or not, the Knicks will acquire someone like Simmons or Ball or whoever whose ego and baggage will co-opt center stage and consume all the oxygen in the room.

The Knicks look very much like a Humpty-Dumpty roster already wobbling at the edge of a fall.

There is a fine line between realistic and pessimistic when talking bout our Knicks. Been so long since we were relevant, it’s easy to hide back in the shadows and make excuses why our successes are a flash in the pan. Regression to the mean and whatnot.

I’ve got severe optimism. The kind that thinks of all the possibilities for this roster over the offseason and then thinks ... but the Knicks will do even better than this! I have so much esteem for the knee front office. They made moves that made sense. They cleared roster space when they needed. They wheeled and dealed. Played 3 card monte. Spent bazillions on coaching and infrastructure. And made their players better.

My gut is that Randle will actually be traded this offseason. Can’t tell you where or how for certain. Feels like they fattened him up for the kill (proverbially speaking). Padded his stats a bit with a heliocentric offensive model. If I had to guess, it’s to GS for Wiggins and the Minnesota pick if it passes to GS. Including Mitch Robinson, Wiseman and picks could make sense for both sides. GS gets TPEs and vet players. Knicks get a core squad going forward.

I think Barrett is the more likely center of the team moving forward. Loved Randle at his best. Love his hard work. I was certain he was a dead man walking into the season. But I think the FO will want to make time for Obi to prove themselves right.

Point is, there are infinite possibilities that don’t require re-signing the same team this offseason. The Knicks made the most of what could have been a tank season. I think they focus on a younger core unless blockbusters avail themselves.

EwingsGlass wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

fwk00 wrote:https://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2021/06/a-surprising-disappointing-season.html

Good realistic take. Naturally nobody knows what next year brings given the moves that can be done. We tent to over think the potential of starphck moves or that we can make some meaningful trades.
Even if we improve, other team will not stand pat.
Boston still has a core.
Miami could bounce back.
Charlotte has room to improve internally and make some trades.
Cleveland rocks, Cleveland rocks……Can’t suck forever
Indy had issues this year.
ATL…….

I can easy see us get better but fall in seedlings.

I think Capella and Collins stuck a pin in Thibs's balloon so to speak. The Knicks aren't surprising anyone next year. The word is out.

Yes. Other teams that experienced hick-ups will regroup.

But A LOT of things went right for the Knicks this year that won't be an easy train to catch next year.

And, realistic or not, the Knicks will acquire someone like Simmons or Ball or whoever whose ego and baggage will co-opt center stage and consume all the oxygen in the room.

The Knicks look very much like a Humpty-Dumpty roster already wobbling at the edge of a fall.

There is a fine line between realistic and pessimistic when talking bout our Knicks. Been so long since we were relevant, it’s easy to hide back in the shadows and make excuses why our successes are a flash in the pan. Regression to the mean and whatnot.

I’ve got severe optimism. The kind that thinks of all the possibilities for this roster over the offseason and then thinks ... but the Knicks will do even better than this! I have so much esteem for the knee front office. They made moves that made sense. They cleared roster space when they needed. They wheeled and dealed. Played 3 card monte. Spent bazillions on coaching and infrastructure. And made their players better.

My gut is that Randle will actually be traded this offseason. Can’t tell you where or how for certain. Feels like they fattened him up for the kill (proverbially speaking). Padded his stats a bit with a heliocentric offensive model. If I had to guess, it’s to GS for Wiggins and the Minnesota pick if it passes to GS. Including Mitch Robinson, Wiseman and picks could make sense for both sides. GS gets TPEs and vet players. Knicks get a core squad going forward.

I think Barrett is the more likely center of the team moving forward. Loved Randle at his best. Love his hard work. I was certain he was a dead man walking into the season. But I think the FO will want to make time for Obi to prove themselves right.

Point is, there are infinite possibilities that don’t require re-signing the same team this offseason. The Knicks made the most of what could have been a tank season. I think they focus on a younger core unless blockbusters avail themselves.

Wow. Interesting take on Randle. I can't help but think this season is a one-off with major shifts to come.

Philc1 wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

fwk00 wrote:https://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2021/06/a-surprising-disappointing-season.html

Good realistic take. Naturally nobody knows what next year brings given the moves that can be done. We tent to over think the potential of starphck moves or that we can make some meaningful trades.
Even if we improve, other team will not stand pat.
Boston still has a core.
Miami could bounce back.
Charlotte has room to improve internally and make some trades.
Cleveland rocks, Cleveland rocks……Can’t suck forever
Indy had issues this year.
ATL…….

I can easy see us get better but fall in seedlings.

I think Capella and Collins stuck a pin in Thibs's balloon so to speak. The Knicks aren't surprising anyone next year. The word is out.

Yes. Other teams that experienced hick-ups will regroup.

But A LOT of things went right for the Knicks this year that won't be an easy train to catch next year.

And, realistic or not, the Knicks will acquire someone like Simmons or Ball or whoever whose ego and baggage will co-opt center stage and consume all the oxygen in the room.

The Knicks look very much like a Humpty-Dumpty roster already wobbling at the edge of a fall.

If we don’t significantly upgrade at PG next season I agree. I think we miss the playoffs if we come back with Elf and Rose on one year deals

Elf being Randle's running mate is what worries me. Could easily happen. Rose ain't getting younger.

EwingsGlass wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

fwk00 wrote:https://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2021/06/a-surprising-disappointing-season.html

Good realistic take. Naturally nobody knows what next year brings given the moves that can be done. We tent to over think the potential of starphck moves or that we can make some meaningful trades.
Even if we improve, other team will not stand pat.
Boston still has a core.
Miami could bounce back.
Charlotte has room to improve internally and make some trades.
Cleveland rocks, Cleveland rocks……Can’t suck forever
Indy had issues this year.
ATL…….

I can easy see us get better but fall in seedlings.

I think Capella and Collins stuck a pin in Thibs's balloon so to speak. The Knicks aren't surprising anyone next year. The word is out.

Yes. Other teams that experienced hick-ups will regroup.

But A LOT of things went right for the Knicks this year that won't be an easy train to catch next year.

And, realistic or not, the Knicks will acquire someone like Simmons or Ball or whoever whose ego and baggage will co-opt center stage and consume all the oxygen in the room.

The Knicks look very much like a Humpty-Dumpty roster already wobbling at the edge of a fall.

There is a fine line between realistic and pessimistic when talking bout our Knicks. Been so long since we were relevant, it’s easy to hide back in the shadows and make excuses why our successes are a flash in the pan. Regression to the mean and whatnot.

I’ve got severe optimism. The kind that thinks of all the possibilities for this roster over the offseason and then thinks ... but the Knicks will do even better than this! I have so much esteem for the knee front office. They made moves that made sense. They cleared roster space when they needed. They wheeled and dealed. Played 3 card monte. Spent bazillions on coaching and infrastructure. And made their players better.

My gut is that Randle will actually be traded this offseason. Can’t tell you where or how for certain. Feels like they fattened him up for the kill (proverbially speaking). Padded his stats a bit with a heliocentric offensive model. If I had to guess, it’s to GS for Wiggins and the Minnesota pick if it passes to GS. Including Mitch Robinson, Wiseman and picks could make sense for both sides. GS gets TPEs and vet players. Knicks get a core squad going forward.

I think Barrett is the more likely center of the team moving forward. Loved Randle at his best. Love his hard work. I was certain he was a dead man walking into the season. But I think the FO will want to make time for Obi to prove themselves right.

Point is, there are infinite possibilities that don’t require re-signing the same team this offseason. The Knicks made the most of what could have been a tank season. I think they focus on a younger core unless blockbusters avail themselves.

All very interesting though. What if the Minnesota picks falls to #6?

Randle might get traded. But the Knicks didn't run this offense through Randle just to build up his value. They ran the offense through Randle because he's by far the best player on this team. And Obi isn't dictating **** here. And yes, Randle and Obi can in fact co-exist. Lest we forget Allan Houston and Spree. Jordan and Pippen. Frazier and Monroe.

EwingsGlass wrote:
My gut is that Randle will actually be traded this offseason. Can’t tell you where or how for certain. Feels like they fattened him up for the kill (proverbially speaking). Padded his stats a bit with a heliocentric offensive model. If I had to guess, it’s to GS for Wiggins and the Minnesota pick if it passes to GS. Including Mitch Robinson, Wiseman and picks could make sense for both sides. GS gets TPEs and vet players. Knicks get a core squad going forward.

Would be a stupid move for GS. Why give up a promising young talent in a generational draft for a player they do not really need right now, even a star one like Randle? Conversely, is Wiggins not just an overpaid stat padder? With a poor relationship with Thibs to boot. Hard to see such a trade benefitting either team, so not a smart move for the Knicks either they feel really strongly what Randle's season was a total fluke.

jskinny35 wrote:Been saying this one for a while - the Warriors are "all in" as they plan to ride Steph, Klay and Draymond out until they rebuild in a few years. While I agree they should hold onto Wiseman the talk here (live in Bay Area) is that as good as Wiseman will become - they want a playoff veteran to better complement their core as they have a limited time window. The W's views of Wiggins (and Oubre) have fluctuated all season long as both have played very well at times - and also struggled mightily at times. I really believe the W's want to find a veteran vs taking another high draft choice.

First of all, the Warriors won championships with a Dray-Klay-Steph core, so they do not really need to make an "all in" move to be a contender next season. Second, Randle is a great player, second all-NBA, but not an "all in" move. KD is an all-in move. Harden is an all-in move. Kawhi is an all-in move. Randle is a very marginal improvement for them. Not worth a lottery pick for the Warriors. They are much better off counting on continued improvement by Wiseman, plus contributions from two lottery rookies, who would not only supplement a strong contender core, but also start a gradual transition towards a longer-term future beyond Dray-Klay-Steph. Without having to go through a sucky rebuild period.

knicks1248 wrote:Talking about trading randle is just because there's nothing else going on.

There's no logical reason to trade Randle unless it involves Doncic or Zion, and then your still left with one star, so it would be a complete lateral moves.

The draft is not as good as some think it is, lets just be happy that we are not in the lottery and are in the 2nd phase of building a contender

Realistically, where would you rank Randle in the league? Top 10? Top 20? Top 30? I agree that you need to really think hard about trading Randle, but they're slot of packages I'd consider if they were on the table and they're not necessarily lateral moves. Randle made All NBA this year, but there are number of players who didn't make the team that I'd rather have. The draft is the draft. All the players still in the playoffs this year were drafted, including Gallinari who we picked many moons ago.