Jmpasq wrote:This doesnt bode well for us keeping Noel and or Mitch.

“They are going to give Allen $100 million or more in a contract extension. Having both wasn’t going to work,” he wrote, referring to the Cavs having both Allen and Andre Drummond on the roster. “Trading for Allen (another bargain price) was a good idea long term, but made life rough for J.B. Bickerstaff due to how Drummond reacted.”

We need to go cheap at center so we can keep a stable of wings. 20 million for the position is to much

Signing Jarrett Allen for 100 mil is why a team like the Cavs will never be good again.

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:1) Valid point that they do not need to “force” the issue and make bad signings. I think your spreadsheet clearly demonstrates that it isn’t a complete “use it or lose it” to the extent the Knicks don’t spend freely this offseason.

2) Could you explain the $3.4mm for Robinson? Is that his cap hold?

3) Maintaining the core on 1 year contracts would bring Rose and Bullock to Bird Rights and would make the others early birds. Worth considering what those cap holds are.

4) One aspect of cap management being given up is the ability to use exceptions (MLE, drafted player as prime examples). I think of cap management as both cap space and potential salary. If you accept that salary and skill are generally more correlated than not - the ability to exceed the cap and add more salary should add better talent depth. Theoretically, you could have quite a bit more salary than you list in 20/23 if the Knicks were to find good salary adds this year and utilize the exceptions in 22/23.

In theory, the Knicks would be in a better position to make deadline trades by adding value players and not just “facilitating” this year. Goal should be to maximize roster talent every year. I don’t really believe in the “waiting” game any longer.

Well it is about what you can get in trades and who you can sign in the FA market. Who do you like this year that will propel you over what is available next year?

If all players currently set to be available next season are still available next season, there is no doubt at all that Kawhi Leonard is the only player remotely in that class. That said, this year's FA class was supposed to be the greatest class of all time and well...look at it now. I don't feel confident that the projected class and the actual class will remain the same.

Alternate argument is not who is better than that class, but who will add value to the team this year. Rather than simply facilitating other teams getting better -- are there players we can add through cap space, trade or otherwise to create franchise value?

I like Ball and Powell and think both would add franchise value. Ball is clearly an RFA and will cost assets. Have to make sure that it makes sense. Powell is undersized to a degree but still I think he fits well in the 10man if we are buying into the idea of minutes not quarters. Pretty sure both will retain value on the trade market if it made sense after Dec 10. In fact, having tradeable assets as of 12/10 should be a priority as many of the 2022 FA class may be available then with Bird rights.

Pelicans up by 3 with 7.8 seconds on clock, NY calls timeout. Pelicans coach HAD to tell them to allow any type of 2 point shot, maybe foul a player waaaayyyy before the shot.

There is exactly ZERO reason Ball should move an inch in Rose's direction. Cost them the game. What is going through his head?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/1395144737179410433

gradyandrew wrote:It's all about getting KAT and DLo to come to NY with Randle, RJ, and Quickley. knicks need about 30 million in salary to add to Mitchell, Knox, and Obi's contracts to swing a midseason trade for DLo and KAT.
Knicks should keep Rose and Bullocks cap holds and resign them at 24/2 and 14/2 deals, respectively. It's a low ball figure for Bullock, but I think he takes it because of a surplus of FAs, lack of team's with space, and low career earnings to date.

I'd also like Burks and Noel to come back. Since We don't have any rights, probably renounce their cap holds, and then sign as FA's for 16/2 deals. Frank is in the same boat. Since his QO at 8 million exceeds his value, just renounce then negotiate.

What do you think Minny would want for those 2 guys?

martin wrote:

What do you think Minny would want for those 2 guys?

EwingsGlass' steps 1-9 are my first answer.

I think Minny's first concern is to cut salary. Next season they are at 130 million. I think individually DLo's contract exceeds his value, he's not a 30 million dollar player. So the question is more what is fair value for KAT. For that the standard formula is lower level star, prospect, picks. For The first, We should look to Free Agency. Lonzo Ball at 20 million per for 3 seasons would be perfect to flip. I think a package of Ball, Mitchell, Knox, and Obi gets the Knicks pretty close. That total salary still isn't enough; We need 48 million (60 million ÷ 1.25).

Knicks could also try to trade cap space but it's a worse for the Knicks. Salaries are multiplied by 120% for trade purposes, giving the Knicks just enough leeway to keep the core together. For example:

Step 1, renounce all FA's except Bullock and Rose. Opening 50 million in space.
Step 2, sign two FAs for 30 million
Step 3, sign Noel and Burks for 20 million combined
Step 4, sign Rose and Noel to 2 year deals at 175% of current salary, 12 for Rose 7 for Bullock.
Step 6, use full mle to resign Taj and another trade FA at 5 million
Step 7, trade 35 million in new FAs + Knox, obi, Mitchell for DLo and KAT
Step 8, win championship with Quickley, DLo, RJ, Randle, KAT starting, Rose, Noel, Burks, Bullock off the bench.

gradyandrew wrote:

martin wrote:

What do you think Minny would want for those 2 guys?

EwingsGlass' steps 1-9 are my first answer.

I think Minny's first concern is to cut salary. Next season they are at 130 million. I think individually DLo's contract exceeds his value, he's not a 30 million dollar player. So the question is more what is fair value for KAT. For that the standard formula is lower level star, prospect, picks. For The first, We should look to Free Agency. Lonzo Ball at 20 million per for 3 seasons would be perfect to flip. I think a package of Ball, Mitchell, Knox, and Obi gets the Knicks pretty close. That total salary still isn't enough; We need 48 million (60 million ÷ 1.25).

Knicks could also try to trade cap space but it's a worse for the Knicks. Salaries are multiplied by 120% for trade purposes, giving the Knicks just enough leeway to keep the core together. For example:

Step 1, renounce all FA's except Bullock and Rose. Opening 50 million in space.
Step 2, sign two FAs for 30 million
Step 3, sign Noel and Burks for 20 million combined
Step 4, sign Rose and Noel to 2 year deals at 175% of current salary, 12 for Rose 7 for Bullock.
Step 6, use full mle to resign Taj and another trade FA at 5 million
Step 7, trade 35 million in new FAs + Knox, obi, Mitchell for DLo and KAT
Step 8, win championship with Quickley, DLo, RJ, Randle, KAT starting, Rose, Noel, Burks, Bullock off the bench.

No MLE if you start below the cap.

In seriousness, I have KAT valued at 4 1st rd draft picks and Obi Toppin. Minny gets a 25mm TPE as well.

Russell only has 2 years left on his contract. I think he gets 3 draft picks and probably both Robinson and IQ. Might be able to use 2 first and Detroit’s 2 second rd picks since they are practically 1sts.

I think the point from Martin is that the amount of assets needed to grab both is near devastating.

I think if the Knicks could only get one, I take Russell.

Maybe do Toppin/Knox and 2 firsts.

This assumes the Wolves want to clear his salary after drafting a PG (if GS doesn’t get their pick this year.

Leaves some money to pay Rose, Bullock, Noel, Burks after applying the EarlyBirds as you mention. Use Vet Min to bring back Taj.

Kind of clears out Knox and and Toppin from the rotation where their D hasn’t been up to snuff yet.

Russell/Rose/Vildoza
Barrett/Quickley
Bullock/Burks
Randle/Gibson
Robinson/Noel

Not sure I do this though, if I am the Knicks. Just doesn’t feel 100% right.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:This doesnt bode well for us keeping Noel and or Mitch.

“They are going to give Allen $100 million or more in a contract extension. Having both wasn’t going to work,” he wrote, referring to the Cavs having both Allen and Andre Drummond on the roster. “Trading for Allen (another bargain price) was a good idea long term, but made life rough for J.B. Bickerstaff due to how Drummond reacted.”

We need to go cheap at center so we can keep a stable of wings. 20 million for the position is to much

Signing Jarrett Allen for 100 mil is why a team like the Cavs will never be good again.

Agreed

Seconded. Absolute insanity if they follow through on that.

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:This doesnt bode well for us keeping Noel and or Mitch.

“They are going to give Allen $100 million or more in a contract extension. Having both wasn’t going to work,” he wrote, referring to the Cavs having both Allen and Andre Drummond on the roster. “Trading for Allen (another bargain price) was a good idea long term, but made life rough for J.B. Bickerstaff due to how Drummond reacted.”

We need to go cheap at center so we can keep a stable of wings. 20 million for the position is to much

Signing Jarrett Allen for 100 mil is why a team like the Cavs will never be good again.

Agreed

Seconded. Absolute insanity if they follow through on that.

Of course its crazy but it will are chances of keeping them

This guy just Fck himself

Dan Feldman
Thu, May 20, 2021, 7:30 AM·1 min read

Victor Oladipo reportedly rejected a contract extension that would’ve started at $25 million with the Pacers. Traded to the Rockets, he then rejected a two-year, $45,202,500 extension from Houston. In fact, Oladipo said the Rockets – who made their largest-allowable offer – presented the deal as, “We know you’re not going to accept it, but we still want you to understand that we want you here.”

That money will be difficult for Oladipo to recoup now.

Traded to the Heat, Oladipo underwent surgery on his right quad tendon. That’s the same injury that sidelined him more than a year with Indiana.

Brian Windhorst of ESPN:

They haven’t announced it, but there’s a good chance Oladipo is going to miss all of next season.

What a bummer. Shortly after Oladipo established himself as a star, injuries have completely derailed his career.

Even if Oladipo will miss next season, a team could sign the 29-year-old to a multi-year deal in hope of having a bargain later. But, even when on the court, Oladipo hasn’t played well in two years.

Oladipo will likely face some depressing choices in free agency this summer.

Panos wrote:We do all realize that Minnesota currently has Kat and DLo and they suck, right? Why would we empty the cupboards for them?

Seriously they are one of the worst teams in the league. They will destroy are team defense. Id rather keep Bullock and Burkes over Russell. Another combo guard is the last thing we need. We need an elite wing and a legitimate starting PG. Maybe a center if Myles Turner became available.

knicks1248 wrote:It's avoiding moves like this that has me very encourage by this FO..

This guy just Fck himself

Dan Feldman
Thu, May 20, 2021, 7:30 AM·1 min read

Victor Oladipo reportedly rejected a contract extension that would’ve started at $25 million with the Pacers. Traded to the Rockets, he then rejected a two-year, $45,202,500 extension from Houston. In fact, Oladipo said the Rockets – who made their largest-allowable offer – presented the deal as, “We know you’re not going to accept it, but we still want you to understand that we want you here.”

That money will be difficult for Oladipo to recoup now.

Traded to the Heat, Oladipo underwent surgery on his right quad tendon. That’s the same injury that sidelined him more than a year with Indiana.

Brian Windhorst of ESPN:

They haven’t announced it, but there’s a good chance Oladipo is going to miss all of next season.

What a bummer. Shortly after Oladipo established himself as a star, injuries have completely derailed his career.

Even if Oladipo will miss next season, a team could sign the 29-year-old to a multi-year deal in hope of having a bargain later. But, even when on the court, Oladipo hasn’t played well in two years.

Oladipo will likely face some depressing choices in free agency this summer.

Beyond media conjecture and fan chatter, how serious were knicks ever really in on Dipo? It was always worth something to discuss. Remember, even if a team is serious it works both ways to know who is in play. As in who the knicks were willing to offer. Often deals are build from other deals.

Jarret Allen: It matters if the 100mm deal is 4 or 5 years. 20mm per is not crazy as he is established.
Mitch has a broken foot. He can do an extension now or take the risk of another. I don’t know why this is not talked about more. He is mentioned as if there is no issue. What bone and what is the prognosis for the long term. No big deal, then thats the answer. But none of us can ascertain his value without this knowledge. Allen is a proven healthy kid that became teh defensive anchor leading his team to a playoff birth. Mitch has yet to write that story. Yes, still young with upside. But a broken foot. The hand was a contact injury. The foot broke under stress of his body.
Shyt happens. Compound a fracture with a bad contract never helps. Some bones fuse better than others. Tell me its no big deal and I’m good.