Panos wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:I love Frank... but I think we should start with simple question first posted. What did Frank do to Thibs?

Well he hasnt had a good game in a month. His best was shooting 5-7 vs. SAS in a 26 point blowout (Frank was -20). The other reasonable game was 4-9 good for 13 points vs. Orlando.

Franks last 8 games he shot
0-3, -5
0-1, -7
0-5, +5
0-4, +4
4-9, -2
1-3, -2
0-0, 0 (10 mins vs. Was)
0-2, -8

So what Frank "did" to THibs was mis most all of his shots and not help the Knicks wins.

Frank would prolly be great on BRK where he could play 20-30 minutes a night and never have to handle or shoot the ball playing next to guys like Harden/Kyrie. Cant do that on the Knicks. Need to be able to help out a little on offense

The author, founder and CEO of Frankie Haters Can Suck It has spoken. Here endeth the lesson. Frankie would be great at basketball if he only had to touch a basketball when stealing it or blocking it. Another chapter in not having had great experiences as a fan base with French basketballers. I'm looking at your Vinsanity tat, Fred Weis.

Frank is now the last bastion of hope and praise for that small contingent of PhilJax lovers. I honestly hope wherever he does end up (please God, not Brooklyn), he gets DPOY. Although I'm hoping his latest shooting exhibitions make him untradable and he somehow, someway, ends up doing that here.

Based on no facts whatsoever, my gut says the Knicks will resign him on a minimum contract.

Well, he did outplay both Pinson and Harper, that's at least one fact! Frankie Lives!

This is the new NBA there are no set plays everything is free flow and it’s the league for aggressive players. Even Dennis Rodman wouldn’t have a spot Or struggle to keep it in today’s NBA and he brought a lot to the table. Rebounds hustle and defense.

I hate to say it as the biggest supporter of Frank I am disappointed in his mindset and lack of aggression in his game. Frank simply isn’t good enough to have the game come to him, he has to go get what he wants. If he doesn’t want it then ride the pine like he is doing.

Philc1 wrote:
Meanwhile Rose and Payton can’t put the ball in the ocean and their defense sucks. But those bricks are so delightful

Come on, at some point you've got to let go of the bias. Most of those who really hoped Frank would make it (count me in) have acknowledged that it's not happening. It's disappointing but in the grand scheme of things, he'll still have all the tools to build a really good life for himself and his family -he's been making what? 5 millions a year? Who's making that in their lifetime?- which already is an incredibly great success story given where he came from.

Maybe he'll have another chance with an NBA team looking for someone with a defend first only mindset (I've mentioned the Hawks before, Young is an absolute turnstile in defense and has a really high offensive usage that Frank wouldn't threaten)

fishmike wrote:Phil likes Frank, and watching Frank unable to beat out someone like Elf is hard.. its REALLY hard.

I do like Frank. I am french and was drawn to this forum when he was drafted, I really loved his life story and I wanted to keep track of his career. One can hardly be more biased than that! Alas, there is a boundary between being optimistic and stubborn and I'm afraid it takes crossing it to still believe in Frank as an NBA player.

You compare him with the closest thing : Theo Maledon, french like him, rookie in the NBA coming from Eurobasket, about the same debut age, same position, also playing for a tanking team (OKC) : the guy has already had 23, 24 and 33 points career games. He's also had extremely poor ones where he shot like 1-12, 1-7. Is he going to be a long term NBA player I couldn't say, but you'd think Frank would have something similar to show for himself after almost 4 years in the league.

Thats my official Nalodian position. When its time to move forward and bring in new talent then we do that.
Thibs has benched Frank and started him. His future is not of a PG. We have seen NFL take a guy and change his position and give him time to deveolope. Maybe frank is not so good with this or maybe is. The notion that he fired Leon and he is benching him in some revenge mode speaks to the immaturity of some fans because we have no idea what the deal was. Maybe Leon was not giving him attention or wanted him to give up being a PG as it was a better path. Maybe Frank rejected that? I don’t know. Maybe Leon loves this kid and was perfectly fine with him leaving his stable of players. Maybe he thought he’d be better represented by another and that in fact helps Leons cred that he is that kind of agent!!!! We don’t know. I leave these concepts open for discussion not my opinion.

I’m guessing Thibs thought playing Burks at PG was a better option for the team as we struggle offensively and frank does not solve that. Also he trusts DRose.
IT does not take a genius level to think with an expiring contract and at the end of the bench his future is not long with us.
That a team would rather wait for free agency rather than trade for him is logical if they see him as a potential player for them.
Or he is going back to Europe where his game is more suited and appreciated.
IQ limited minutes I see as him not really being a PG or struggling with the speed at which he has to play it. The league has taken notice on his game and its gotten a bit harder for him. Rookie stuff. I’m still very high on him but the “Guarantee allstar” hype might be a bit off to the future if it in fact happens. Thibs seems to have a litmus test. If you meet it you play more minutes. If not you coming out. Creates a sense of urgency in players.

fwk00 wrote:Truth of the matter is that Frank is very much like Julius Randle in that the fans have a pre-conceived love or hate relationship with him as a player.

The criticism, much like that being slung against Ben Simmons in Philly, is all about offense and aggressiveness. The positive aspects of their games are diminished or ignored and the developmental aspect of their game is magnified. He's all of 22 years old and has suffered the expectations of numerous coaches and their eclectic goals.

The point of the conversation is that we, as fans, have had to sit through numerous games in which Peyton, Bullock, and others simply don't have it and it shows in the second and third quarters. This is not about *giving Ntilikina a chance*, its about coaching to game time situations where any change up in the stinking status quo might help.

NOBODY is expecting Frankie to suddenly turn into Lebron James as some of you snark at. But can he give you spot minutes to stop the bleeding or turn the tide? Is *THAT* so unimaginable?

He's a talented guy. Use what you got.

Or maybe more Elf will somehow turn into a scoring machine.

Frankie will be fine. And when he is there will be pissing and moaning. In the meantime, how about winning games? Or at least making them watchable.

How about facts? Frankie's preconception were as the long-armed defensive Euro-stepping kid who would fulPhil Phil's triangular dreams. That went south with groin issue, lack of agressiveness and the inability to put more than a decent span of a season together. But the youth! The long arms! Dominating Euro ball!

Julius Randle? Seriously? Last season he singlehandedly invented the spinover, making people forget Stat's patented dribble off the feet out of bounds move. Now he's an all-star putting up insane numbers at times and we're .500 and vying for the playoffs. Yes, I can see how that's very much like a PG/SG that can't or won't or doesn't shoot.

Comparing Frankie to Ben Simmons? Simmons can score at will, can jump out of the gym, and just lacks any sort of jumper and the brains to be coached into hitting foul shots. Frankie has a few highlight moments guarding Luka and others. He manages about 15 minutes of shooting every three months, if that. What else are the positive aspects of Frankie's game that are being ignored or diminished? Are there triple secret hockey assists that nobody is noticing?

So it's the coaching that's been at the root of Frankie not meeting the inane expectation that he hit a jumper and be aggressive offensively. Poor Frankie. I wonder why IQ doesn't have that same problem with the same coach... Hmmmm...

Winning games? I thought that's what we were doing WITHOUT much of Frankie, by the way.

fwk00 wrote:Truth of the matter is that Frank is very much like Julius Randle in that the fans have a pre-conceived love or hate relationship with him as a player.

The criticism, much like that being slung against Ben Simmons in Philly, is all about offense and aggressiveness. The positive aspects of their games are diminished or ignored and the developmental aspect of their game is magnified. He's all of 22 years old and has suffered the expectations of numerous coaches and their eclectic goals.

The point of the conversation is that we, as fans, have had to sit through numerous games in which Peyton, Bullock, and others simply don't have it and it shows in the second and third quarters. This is not about *giving Ntilikina a chance*, its about coaching to game time situations where any change up in the stinking status quo might help.

NOBODY is expecting Frankie to suddenly turn into Lebron James as some of you snark at. But can he give you spot minutes to stop the bleeding or turn the tide? Is *THAT* so unimaginable?

He's a talented guy. Use what you got.

Or maybe more Elf will somehow turn into a scoring machine.

Frankie will be fine. And when he is there will be pissing and moaning. In the meantime, how about winning games? Or at least making them watchable.

Frank is NOTHING like Randle. On what planet is he even close. Randle averaged respectable numbers every year in the league. He was a guy that was very good in most categories and needed improvement in some. Frank has done very little/nothing since coming into the league. Fans that were against Randle were just plain haters and had no factual reasoning. Maybe because he took time away from another young hopeful in Knox. To be Frank, no pun intended, I do not think there is one Frank hater on this board. Sure there are some that stated early on that he was not worth a lottery pick. But they/We were right. Some said he could not score to save his life. They were right. Most are now just finally saying four years of "I think he can turn it around" is just too much. Like all Knick fans, I wanted the kid to prove me wrong. I think he has improved his shot and can be much better. But as I said in my first post ever about the kid, he just does not have "IT", "It" being that alpha mentality that allows these young kids to be fearless, play with confidence, and want to attack at all times. Things needed to make it in NBA. Especially in NY.

Juliano wrote:

Philc1 wrote:
Meanwhile Rose and Payton can’t put the ball in the ocean and their defense sucks. But those bricks are so delightful

Come on, at some point you've got to let go of the bias. Most of those who really hoped Frank would make it (count me in) have acknowledged that it's not happening. It's disappointing but in the grand scheme of things, he'll still have all the tools to build a really good life for himself and his family -he's been making what? 5 millions a year? Who's making that in their lifetime?- which already is an incredibly great success story given where he came from.

Maybe he'll have another chance with an NBA team looking for someone with a defend first only mindset (I've mentioned the Hawks before, Young is an absolute turnstile in defense and has a really high offensive usage that Frank wouldn't threaten)

Rose shot 1-10 the other night versus the Mavericks. It’s not bias the guy just sucks and that was after Elfrid Payton shat himself the game before against the NBA’s worst team

To say Frank can’t even be in the rotation because of those 2 is comical