foosballnick wrote:Wait, 3 lottery busts in a row means that RJ is a bust too?

According to the people who know everything

MS wrote:Let's get over the mistake in the title and realize we have 3 lottery picks that can't crack the ****ing rotation on a 500 team. That's downright embarrassing.

Last years draft was a 3 person draft. Everyone was picking RJ. Knicks were on auto select. We can all agree he's special.

Taj Gibson is outplaying our lottery pick. Just let that sink in.

To be fair. Obi position is PF where our All-Star is playing. Knox looks to be a PF...so same issue. Frank. I love Frank so I am the wrong person to critique him

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Obi was used to feasting on smaller, slower, players, in college. Now, he has to deal with players who just as big, and just as fast, if not faster. All rooks go through this, might be worse for Obi because he cant just turn on the jets, and get by defenders (with his stride) like he did in college. Gave him a massive case of indecision. Watching Toppin play is watching someone who didnt know how to deal with the speed of the NBA game.

Last couple of games Obi took the initiative. Trying to create off the dribble.

I said this about Frank when he was a rook, and it applies to Obi as well. The only way he's going to get past the indecision, is to do what he has the last couple of games. Keep taking it to the rim (within the flow of the offense) not worrying about how ugly the takes are. Most players dont immediately look like veteran players. There are growing pains. Cant get past them, if you dont go through them. Cant do that playing passive.

Obi being more assertive is the first step in becoming a legit NBA player. Its anybody's guess how far he will go. If he can keep building on the minor progress he's made lately, Toppin might turn out to be a good pick. Too early to say either way. Many good NBA players looked like bad picks their rookie season.

So you just ignored when I posted how he preformed in three consecutive games against three power conference schools. This narrative about Obi feasting on inferior talent is just lazy commentary by people who I would bet anything didn't watch a single A-10 game or a single full game Toppin played in or don't even follow college hoops on any level.

And another thing that gets under my skin is this, other than Haliburton who was available at #8 that's remotely lighting it up right now? In fact, other than the top three picks, is there anybody really lighting it up who we're going to be kicking ourselves for not drafting over Toppin? It's also amusing that so many people are claiming they would've drafted Haliburton now. I don't recall him having THAT much support on this board prior to the draft.

Haliburton was the mock draft selection for a while on must sites. The problem is knicks was also in love with obi...from a basketball and ny marketing perspective....plus Haliburton was extremely thin....Its like our Scouts needs to shift from 90 era to this current era of players. Haliburton is actually built for this era....and obi actually fell to the knicks. In all mocks...obi was going to be selected ahead of us....with obi falling... its hard to pass on a NY local....especially when we passed on arrest and realized that huge mistake. They didn't want to make the same mistake.

blkexec wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Obi was used to feasting on smaller, slower, players, in college. Now, he has to deal with players who just as big, and just as fast, if not faster. All rooks go through this, might be worse for Obi because he cant just turn on the jets, and get by defenders (with his stride) like he did in college. Gave him a massive case of indecision. Watching Toppin play is watching someone who didnt know how to deal with the speed of the NBA game.

Last couple of games Obi took the initiative. Trying to create off the dribble.

I said this about Frank when he was a rook, and it applies to Obi as well. The only way he's going to get past the indecision, is to do what he has the last couple of games. Keep taking it to the rim (within the flow of the offense) not worrying about how ugly the takes are. Most players dont immediately look like veteran players. There are growing pains. Cant get past them, if you dont go through them. Cant do that playing passive.

Obi being more assertive is the first step in becoming a legit NBA player. Its anybody's guess how far he will go. If he can keep building on the minor progress he's made lately, Toppin might turn out to be a good pick. Too early to say either way. Many good NBA players looked like bad picks their rookie season.

So you just ignored when I posted how he preformed in three consecutive games against three power conference schools. This narrative about Obi feasting on inferior talent is just lazy commentary by people who I would bet anything didn't watch a single A-10 game or a single full game Toppin played in or don't even follow college hoops on any level.

And another thing that gets under my skin is this, other than Haliburton who was available at #8 that's remotely lighting it up right now? In fact, other than the top three picks, is there anybody really lighting it up who we're going to be kicking ourselves for not drafting over Toppin? It's also amusing that so many people are claiming they would've drafted Haliburton now. I don't recall him having THAT much support on this board prior to the draft.

Haliburton was the mock draft selection for a while on must sites. The problem is knicks was also in love with obi...from a basketball and ny marketing perspective....plus Haliburton was extremely thin....Its like our Scouts needs to shift from 90 era to this current era of players. Haliburton is actually built for this era....and obi actually fell to the knicks. In all mocks...obi was going to be selected ahead of us....with obi falling... its hard to pass on a NY local....especially when we passed on arrest and realized that huge mistake. They didn't want to make the same mistake.

Similar to everybody claiming they wanted Mitchell instead of Frank. My recollection was most were clamoring for DSJ at the time.

Philc1 wrote:Been saying it all along, Obi just needs to get in a rhythm and that will only come with increased playing time

How does he find that here? You are going to trade Randle because Obi may develop? Obi's talents won't be maximized by this roster or coach. It makes the whole pick a very puzzling selection. The only thing that makes sense is the Knicks were ready to get rid of Randle. They thought he was maxed out potential wise. Then Randle becomes an All Star and now they are stuck with a bench player who doesn't have a lot of positional versatility. The centers on the roster are both rim runners who can't shoot. So Obi is pushed to the perimeter when that's not his game and he struggles. They're better off with a combo forward like Otto Porter on the bench who can give minutes at SF and PF. Tough spot for the front office

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Been saying it all along, Obi just needs to get in a rhythm and that will only come with increased playing time

How does he find that here? You are going to trade Randle because Obi may develop? Obi's talents won't be maximized by this roster or coach. It makes the whole pick a very puzzling selection. The only thing that makes sense is the Knicks were ready to get rid of Randle. They thought he was maxed out potential wise. Then Randle becomes an All Star and now they are stuck with a bench player who doesn't have a lot of positional versatility. The centers on the roster are both rim runners who can't shoot. So Obi is pushed to the perimeter when that's not his game and he struggles. They're better off with a combo forward like Otto Porter on the bench who can give minutes at SF and PF. Tough spot for the front office

...or that the front office thought Obi was the best talent/prospect available when they picked. You pick the top player on your board regardless of position or need. A lot of teams have been burned doing the opposite. The most famous and glaring example is Portland bypassing Michael Jordan because they already had Jim Paxson and Clyde Drexler.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:This is all time machine stuff, which means projecting ahead as well as reconsidering. But looking back, I think it is very unlikely we would have picked Quickley later if we had chosen Hali or another PG at 8. So a question for me would be would you prefer Obi and IQ or Halliburton and...?

This is a very good point. Especially given that IQ is not all that far behind Hali. Almost the same point average at 2/3 of Hali's playing time. Hali a better 3pt shooter right now and assists-man, but then Sancto probably trusts him more with the ball and runs plays for him.

And we can't know what Halliburton's development would be here. He might be getting Obi's minutes -- or less.

Jmpasq wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Been saying it all along, Obi just needs to get in a rhythm and that will only come with increased playing time

How does he find that here? You are going to trade Randle because Obi may develop? Obi's talents won't be maximized by this roster or coach. It makes the whole pick a very puzzling selection. The only thing that makes sense is the Knicks were ready to get rid of Randle. They thought he was maxed out potential wise. Then Randle becomes an All Star and now they are stuck with a bench player who doesn't have a lot of positional versatility. The centers on the roster are both rim runners who can't shoot. So Obi is pushed to the perimeter when that's not his game and he struggles. They're better off with a combo forward like Otto Porter on the bench who can give minutes at SF and PF. Tough spot for the front office

It took Randle 5 years to develop into what he is now. People here are screaming that Obi is a bust after half a season. The kid obviously has talent and yes I absolutely endorse using Randle as trade bait to get someone like Lonzo or Devin Booker here next offseason

And who were we supposed to draft over Obi? Vassell I wanted but it’s a wash moving forward between he and Obi. Avdija I liked but he has had similar rookie struggles. Halliburton? I’d rather have Quickley.