Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I see more instant offense than I see floor general. Would rather the FO try to get Lonzo in the offseason.

That's what most of us see because that's the role Thibs and put him in. When everyone is healthy, Quick will get 12-16 mins off the bench to be an instant aprk off the bench. If you notice, when he's in with the second unit, the playbook shrinks and its a steady diet of PNR's. When Quick does get a rare opportunity to get extended mins with the starters, the playbook opens up and not only does he score but he is very unselfish and moves the ball. We saw it against the Hawks when he played the last 4 mins when he penetrated and found RJ for an open 3 to put the game away....We saw it against Chicago when Elf got benched in the 4th..we saw it yesterday.

All I'm saying is, lets give Quick a chance to fail at running the offense before we assume he can't.

I could agree on that. It would be cleared up if he could start against the nets.

We would learn more.

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I see more instant offense than I see floor general. Would rather the FO try to get Lonzo in the offseason.

Do you need a floor general with Point Forward Randle out there, or do you need shooting to open the floor for RJ and Randle?

Agreed...Quick's ability to space the floor makes more sense if we are running the offense through Randle anyway. As I said earlier, there was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Dortz, OKC's best perimeter defender was guarding Quick, not RJ. Quick's presence opens up the game everyone.

Im sure you've both noticed that teams are starting to double Randle more often. He will likely see a lot more of this stategy going forward. You're asking Randle to be the primary scorer, run the offense, deal with being the focus of the defense, while near the top of the league in minutes.

Might as well ask him to do your taxes while your at it, ha ha.

Kidding aside, I like the idea of Randle being able to run the offense at times, when needed. Against giving him the job for the duration.

Ball can make use of our bigs on offense better than
Randle. Lonzo will get him the ball in spots where he has to work less. Doesnt have to expend as much energy to get a good look.

Quickley off the ball, like Randle, gives us a serious scoring punch. Lonzo would give us a playoff quality defender. A floor general who can distribute the ball, make his teammates job easier. While being a legit 3 point threat, as well as a threat at the rim. Lonzo's size and ability to guard elite PGs cant be understated.

Agree

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I see more instant offense than I see floor general. Would rather the FO try to get Lonzo in the offseason.

Do you need a floor general with Point Forward Randle out there, or do you need shooting to open the floor for RJ and Randle?

Agreed...Quick's ability to space the floor makes more sense if we are running the offense through Randle anyway. As I said earlier, there was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Dortz, OKC's best perimeter defender was guarding Quick, not RJ. Quick's presence opens up the game everyone.

Im sure you've both noticed that teams are starting to double Randle more often. He will likely see a lot more of this stategy going forward. You're asking Randle to be the primary scorer, run the offense, deal with being the focus of the defense, while near the top of the league in minutes.

Might as well ask him to do your taxes while your at it, ha ha.

Kidding aside, I like the idea of Randle being able to run the offense at times, when needed. Against giving him the job for the duration.

Ball can make use of our bigs on offense better than
Randle. Lonzo will get him the ball in spots where he has to work less. Doesnt have to expend as much energy to get a good look.

Quickley off the ball, like Randle, gives us a serious scoring punch. Lonzo would give us a playoff quality defender. A floor general who can distribute the ball, make his teammates job easier. While being a legit 3 point threat, as well as a threat at the rim. Lonzo's size and ability to guard elite PGs cant be understated.

I am not asking Randle to do anything; that's a question for Thibs as he has placed Randle in that role. Even when Payton is on the floor, a non-shooter, the offense mainly runs through Randle. Would love to take some of the playmaking responsibilities from Randle as he can still be a bit turnover prone at times. My main point about Quickley is to give him opportunity to show that can or cannot run the offense before we pigeon-hole a 21-year-old rookie as only being an instant offense spark off the bench. I think he's capable of more as he's shown flashes but we will never know for sure unless he's given an extended look.

I don't disagree about Lonzo. I like him as a player, always have since he was at UCLA. He has tremendous vision, is an elite passer and good rebounder for a guard and has improved as a shooter. In order to get the best out of Lonzo and really utilize his skill-set, he needs to play in an up-tempo style offense, he needs players that will run the floor and can finish and in a half court setting, lots of player movement off the ball. We are a methodical, low-pace team. not sure if that will change will Lonzo.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I see more instant offense than I see floor general. Would rather the FO try to get Lonzo in the offseason.

Do you need a floor general with Point Forward Randle out there, or do you need shooting to open the floor for RJ and Randle?

Agreed...Quick's ability to space the floor makes more sense if we are running the offense through Randle anyway. As I said earlier, there was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Dortz, OKC's best perimeter defender was guarding Quick, not RJ. Quick's presence opens up the game everyone.

Im sure you've both noticed that teams are starting to double Randle more often. He will likely see a lot more of this stategy going forward. You're asking Randle to be the primary scorer, run the offense, deal with being the focus of the defense, while near the top of the league in minutes.

Might as well ask him to do your taxes while your at it, ha ha.

Kidding aside, I like the idea of Randle being able to run the offense at times, when needed. Against giving him the job for the duration.

Ball can make use of our bigs on offense better than
Randle. Lonzo will get him the ball in spots where he has to work less. Doesnt have to expend as much energy to get a good look.

Quickley off the ball, like Randle, gives us a serious scoring punch. Lonzo would give us a playoff quality defender. A floor general who can distribute the ball, make his teammates job easier. While being a legit 3 point threat, as well as a threat at the rim. Lonzo's size and ability to guard elite PGs cant be understated.

I'm not against the idea of Lonzo. In addition to all the skills he adds, he also does a good job of pushing the pace. What I am leary of is his ability to create his own shot in the half court. I like him, but not at the contract he's likely getting. We'll see.

ramtour420 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I see more instant offense than I see floor general. Would rather the FO try to get Lonzo in the offseason.

Do you need a floor general with Point Forward Randle out there, or do you need shooting to open the floor for RJ and Randle?

Agreed...Quick's ability to space the floor makes more sense if we are running the offense through Randle anyway. As I said earlier, there was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Dortz, OKC's best perimeter defender was guarding Quick, not RJ. Quick's presence opens up the game everyone.

Im sure you've both noticed that teams are starting to double Randle more often. He will likely see a lot more of this stategy going forward. You're asking Randle to be the primary scorer, run the offense, deal with being the focus of the defense, while near the top of the league in minutes.

Might as well ask him to do your taxes while your at it, ha ha.

Kidding aside, I like the idea of Randle being able to run the offense at times, when needed. Against giving him the job for the duration.

Ball can make use of our bigs on offense better than
Randle. Lonzo will get him the ball in spots where he has to work less. Doesnt have to expend as much energy to get a good look.

Quickley off the ball, like Randle, gives us a serious scoring punch. Lonzo would give us a playoff quality defender. A floor general who can distribute the ball, make his teammates job easier. While being a legit 3 point threat, as well as a threat at the rim. Lonzo's size and ability to guard elite PGs cant be understated.

I'm not against the idea of Lonzo. In addition to all the skills he adds, he also does a good job of pushing the pace. What I am leary of is his ability to create his own shot in the half court. I like him, but not at the contract he's likely getting. We'll see.

Don't want him to create his own shot. He is not Kyrie nor Beal. I want him to create shots for others. I want easy points for Mitch, Obi and Randle. I want 10 more assists per game. If he can Knock down the 3 off of a kick out that's a wrap.

That's the thing. How can you expect someone to create shots for others in the half court when they can't create for themselves?

Uptown wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I see more instant offense than I see floor general. Would rather the FO try to get Lonzo in the offseason.

That's what most of us see because that's the role Thibs and put him in. When everyone is healthy, Quick will get 12-16 mins off the bench to be an instant aprk off the bench. If you notice, when he's in with the second unit, the playbook shrinks and its a steady diet of PNR's. When Quick does get a rare opportunity to get extended mins with the starters, the playbook opens up and not only does he score but he is very unselfish and moves the ball. We saw it against the Hawks when he played the last 4 mins when he penetrated and found RJ for an open 3 to put the game away....We saw it against Chicago when Elf got benched in the 4th..we saw it yesterday.

All I'm saying is, lets give Quick a chance to fail at running the offense before we assume he can't.

I could agree on that. It would be cleared up if he could start against the nets.

We would learn more.

LOL....It will take way more than one game to clear up anything...

Of course 😅 lol

BigDaddyG wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I see more instant offense than I see floor general. Would rather the FO try to get Lonzo in the offseason.

Do you need a floor general with Point Forward Randle out there, or do you need shooting to open the floor for RJ and Randle?

Agreed...Quick's ability to space the floor makes more sense if we are running the offense through Randle anyway. As I said earlier, there was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Dortz, OKC's best perimeter defender was guarding Quick, not RJ. Quick's presence opens up the game everyone.

Im sure you've both noticed that teams are starting to double Randle more often. He will likely see a lot more of this stategy going forward. You're asking Randle to be the primary scorer, run the offense, deal with being the focus of the defense, while near the top of the league in minutes.

Might as well ask him to do your taxes while your at it, ha ha.

Kidding aside, I like the idea of Randle being able to run the offense at times, when needed. Against giving him the job for the duration.

Ball can make use of our bigs on offense better than
Randle. Lonzo will get him the ball in spots where he has to work less. Doesnt have to expend as much energy to get a good look.

Quickley off the ball, like Randle, gives us a serious scoring punch. Lonzo would give us a playoff quality defender. A floor general who can distribute the ball, make his teammates job easier. While being a legit 3 point threat, as well as a threat at the rim. Lonzo's size and ability to guard elite PGs cant be understated.

I'm not against the idea of Lonzo. In addition to all the skills he adds, he also does a good job of pushing the pace. What I am leary of is his ability to create his own shot in the half court. I like him, but not at the contract he's likely getting. We'll see.

Don't want him to create his own shot. He is not Kyrie nor Beal. I want him to create shots for others. I want easy points for Mitch, Obi and Randle. I want 10 more assists per game. If he can Knock down the 3 off of a kick out that's a wrap.

That's the thing. How can you expect someone to create shots for others in the half court when they can't create for themselves?

Interesting point. So name these 10 pgs in the league who can give us this while also being able to have good size defend facilitate and shoot? Then how do we go about signing them? Are they old and over their prime?

I’ve been looking at this years draft class. There aren’t 3 players who has ball complete package ability.

Let’s sign jrue holiday lol

Conley

Kryrie

Morant

Lowlry

Scroeder

The way the team will be constructed we will have an elite skill at each position. Our first unit won’t have any problems putting points on the board by 2023.

Next step is to build a great bench through the draft.

Randle PF (all star)
Barret SF (future all star)
Robinson C ( by 27 he will be a top 7 center)
Signed player (all star)
Ball pg (top 15 pg)

Bench

PF Toppin?
Sf
C
Sg
Pg/sg Iq

Conclusion

We need to draft

1. Wing who can shoot (sniper)

2. Wing who can get their own bucket

3. Backup center

xblvdels3 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I see more instant offense than I see floor general. Would rather the FO try to get Lonzo in the offseason.

Do you need a floor general with Point Forward Randle out there, or do you need shooting to open the floor for RJ and Randle?

Agreed...Quick's ability to space the floor makes more sense if we are running the offense through Randle anyway. As I said earlier, there was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Dortz, OKC's best perimeter defender was guarding Quick, not RJ. Quick's presence opens up the game everyone.

Im sure you've both noticed that teams are starting to double Randle more often. He will likely see a lot more of this stategy going forward. You're asking Randle to be the primary scorer, run the offense, deal with being the focus of the defense, while near the top of the league in minutes.

Might as well ask him to do your taxes while your at it, ha ha.

Kidding aside, I like the idea of Randle being able to run the offense at times, when needed. Against giving him the job for the duration.

Ball can make use of our bigs on offense better than
Randle. Lonzo will get him the ball in spots where he has to work less. Doesnt have to expend as much energy to get a good look.

Quickley off the ball, like Randle, gives us a serious scoring punch. Lonzo would give us a playoff quality defender. A floor general who can distribute the ball, make his teammates job easier. While being a legit 3 point threat, as well as a threat at the rim. Lonzo's size and ability to guard elite PGs cant be understated.

I'm not against the idea of Lonzo. In addition to all the skills he adds, he also does a good job of pushing the pace. What I am leary of is his ability to create his own shot in the half court. I like him, but not at the contract he's likely getting. We'll see.

Don't want him to create his own shot. He is not Kyrie nor Beal. I want him to create shots for others. I want easy points for Mitch, Obi and Randle. I want 10 more assists per game. If he can Knock down the 3 off of a kick out that's a wrap.

That's the thing. How can you expect someone to create shots for others in the half court when they can't create for themselves?

Interesting point. So name these 10 pgs in the league who can give us this while also being able to have good size defend facilitate and shoot? Then how do we go about signing them? Are they old and over their prime?

I’ve been looking at this years draft class. There aren’t 3 players who has ball complete package ability.

Let’s sign jrue holiday lol

Conley

Kryrie

Morant

Lowlry

Scroeder

The way the team will be constructed we will have an elite skill at each position. Our first unit won’t have any problems putting points on the board by 2023.

Next step is to build a great bench through the draft.

Randle PF (all star)
Barret SF (future all star)
Robinson C ( by 27 he will be a top 7 center)
Signed player (all star)
Ball pg (top 15 pg)

Bench

PF Toppin?
Sf
C
Sg
Pg/sg Iq

Conclusion

We need to draft

1. Wing who can shoot (sniper)

2. Wing who can get their own bucket

3. Backup center

I'd say Cade and Suggs would be ideal Eric Bledsoe would be good if he were expiring. Conley an a short, two-year deal would be perfect, but he probably isn't leaving Utah. Chris Paul could be an option. Spencer Dinwiddie might be there too. Reggie Jackson might be a cheap alternative.

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I see more instant offense than I see floor general. Would rather the FO try to get Lonzo in the offseason.

Do you need a floor general with Point Forward Randle out there, or do you need shooting to open the floor for RJ and Randle?

Agreed...Quick's ability to space the floor makes more sense if we are running the offense through Randle anyway. As I said earlier, there was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Dortz, OKC's best perimeter defender was guarding Quick, not RJ. Quick's presence opens up the game everyone.

Im sure you've both noticed that teams are starting to double Randle more often. He will likely see a lot more of this stategy going forward. You're asking Randle to be the primary scorer, run the offense, deal with being the focus of the defense, while near the top of the league in minutes.

Might as well ask him to do your taxes while your at it, ha ha.

Kidding aside, I like the idea of Randle being able to run the offense at times, when needed. Against giving him the job for the duration.

Ball can make use of our bigs on offense better than
Randle. Lonzo will get him the ball in spots where he has to work less. Doesnt have to expend as much energy to get a good look.

Quickley off the ball, like Randle, gives us a serious scoring punch. Lonzo would give us a playoff quality defender. A floor general who can distribute the ball, make his teammates job easier. While being a legit 3 point threat, as well as a threat at the rim. Lonzo's size and ability to guard elite PGs cant be understated.

I am not asking Randle to do anything; that's a question for Thibs as he has placed Randle in that role. Even when Payton is on the floor, a non-shooter, the offense mainly runs through Randle. Would love to take some of the playmaking responsibilities from Randle as he can still be a bit turnover prone at times. My main point about Quickley is to give him opportunity to show that can or cannot run the offense before we pigeon-hole a 21-year-old rookie as only being an instant offense spark off the bench. I think he's capable of more as he's shown flashes but we will never know for sure unless he's given an extended look.

I don't disagree about Lonzo. I like him as a player, always have since he was at UCLA. He has tremendous vision, is an elite passer and good rebounder for a guard and has improved as a shooter. In order to get the best out of Lonzo and really utilize his skill-set, he needs to play in an up-tempo style offense, he needs players that will run the floor and can finish and in a half court setting, lots of player movement off the ball. We are a methodical, low-pace team. not sure if that will change will Lonzo.

I remember reading at the start of the season that Thibs wanted to push the tempo. Believe part of the problem is that we dont have a traditional PG who can push the tempo and distribute the ball at a high level. Rose still can do that at times, not a long term solution, as you know.

Payton can be more of a distributor, but not as well, while pushing the tempo. Thibs has made a point (no pun intended) of saying that he likes Payton where he is. Probably because he can push the tempo, while having Randle distribute the ball.

Im guessing that Thibs would prefer a PG who can push the tempo, score, and defend like Payton, while getting his teammates more involved. Lonzo fits the bill. Lonzo can find Obi in transition.

I see how clumsy Obi looks out there at times. Im confident Lonzo has the PG skills to help him take his game to the next level. He's an afterthought in the offense too often. Believe Ball can create space at the point better than Randle can, while making their job easier.

Payton does not push the tempo! Dude plays with the pace of a turtle which is one of the many aspects of his game that I do not like. As soon as Lonzo grabs a rebound or receives an outlet pass, his head immediately looks down the court, looking to pass the ball ahead, which is great when you have wings that get out and fill the lane on a fast or secondary break.

With that said, a couple of concerns about Lonzo is the lack of paint touches he gets in a half-court setting, and he is a poor free throw shooter. He's has gotten better this year, though.

Let me rephrase that. You're right Payton doesnt push the tempo, when he's the PG, but he can play uptempo off the ball. Cant find teammates in transition like Lonzo can. What I was trying to say. Thats why Randle took the initiative at the start of the season to push the tempo himself. Thats not to say Payton spends most of the shot clock pounding the rock. He usually wastes no time taking it to the rim. As you've pointed out, sometimes to a fault.

Believe that Thibs likes the pressure Payton puts on defenses, attacking the rim. Likes the pressure he puts on offenses. Ball can multi-task better than Payton or Quickley. He's also a better defender, has the size to put pressure on opposing PGs.

If the Knicks have playoff ambitions in the next few years. It would be best if we had someone running the point with Lonzo's skill set, and experience. Looks like he's on the verge of taking his game to the next level. Believe he can do this in NY as a starting PG. Its a logjam on the Pels.

BigDaddyG wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I see more instant offense than I see floor general. Would rather the FO try to get Lonzo in the offseason.

Do you need a floor general with Point Forward Randle out there, or do you need shooting to open the floor for RJ and Randle?

Agreed...Quick's ability to space the floor makes more sense if we are running the offense through Randle anyway. As I said earlier, there was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Dortz, OKC's best perimeter defender was guarding Quick, not RJ. Quick's presence opens up the game everyone.

Im sure you've both noticed that teams are starting to double Randle more often. He will likely see a lot more of this stategy going forward. You're asking Randle to be the primary scorer, run the offense, deal with being the focus of the defense, while near the top of the league in minutes.

Might as well ask him to do your taxes while your at it, ha ha.

Kidding aside, I like the idea of Randle being able to run the offense at times, when needed. Against giving him the job for the duration.

Ball can make use of our bigs on offense better than
Randle. Lonzo will get him the ball in spots where he has to work less. Doesnt have to expend as much energy to get a good look.

Quickley off the ball, like Randle, gives us a serious scoring punch. Lonzo would give us a playoff quality defender. A floor general who can distribute the ball, make his teammates job easier. While being a legit 3 point threat, as well as a threat at the rim. Lonzo's size and ability to guard elite PGs cant be understated.

I'm not against the idea of Lonzo. In addition to all the skills he adds, he also does a good job of pushing the pace. What I am leary of is his ability to create his own shot in the half court. I like him, but not at the contract he's likely getting. We'll see.

Don't want him to create his own shot. He is not Kyrie nor Beal. I want him to create shots for others. I want easy points for Mitch, Obi and Randle. I want 10 more assists per game. If he can Knock down the 3 off of a kick out that's a wrap.

That's the thing. How can you expect someone to create shots for others in the half court when they can't create for themselves?

In the half court we would be able to run more variants of the same play. The same PnR that allows Quickley and RJ into the paint never ever( almost) results in the pick man receiving the ball while running downhill to the hoop. Imagine Obi slamming that like it's Amare-Nash all over again!! We have Mitch and even Noel would catch more passes if they are slightly better placed. Enter Lonzo.

Lonzo is a great rebounder too. His game is very Jason Kidd like. Except he has found his shot already. He could be another all star for us.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:
I’ll hope for cade or suggs 😁

I read an article today that said Lonzo ball might require 2 number ones.

Getting lucky in the draft is the best outcome while still making the playoffs.

How do you get lucky with Cade or Suggs AND still make the playoffs? Got strategies to cause a total meltdown in Dallas?

With our and the Mavs' 1st rounders being low and all the ravings about the cusp of greatness of Lonzo, I am beginning to crack thinking that flipping both of them for him might not be a bad idea.

I am very down with that. You can add a couple of pieces that are not looking like a long term solution ( Burks, Bullock, Payton.) Awesome trade. Let's try for ECF