BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Personally, I'd start by giviving the Kings a call. If they were willing to give up their lightly protected 2021 1st round pick for Julius Randle, I'd be more than happy to oblige. Does Julius Randle and Austin Rivers for Marvin Bagley, Nemana Bjelica, Jabari Parker and their 2021 first round pick work for both sides?

I mentioned this in another thread, but I'd be more than happy to take back the Danilo Gallinari for a favorable package from the Hawks. If they were willing to give me a premium first or some combination of protected picks, pick swaps and/or their youth I'd oblige as well.

Not for this side! We just got an all star and we are trading him for inferior players? Cant get my head around that one. We dont need another first. We need all stars. Julius took 6 years to get here.

If you want to do a money deal using cap space I bet Kelly Oubre or Wiggins could be had from GS

One guy I would actually pay high to get would be Grant from Detroit.

We don't have an allstar. We have a guy that made an all-star team, which are two different things. The former is a perennial, consummate talent; the latter is circumstantial.

Just to be clear though: I'm a fan of Randle and the improvement he's made. But at the end of the day, we're a barely .500 team (with only a +0.5 differential) despite playing one of the softer schedules in the league and having everything break our way this season. So, let's not pretend we've caught lightening in a bottle because what we are is not sustainable and can't be scaled. Even more concerning is the fact that Randle is set to become incredibly expensive after next season when he becomes a free agent. History shows that marginal teams, with marginal talent like we have can badly screw themselves by making long-term commitments to players that don't deserve them.

This team reminds me a lot of that 2016-2017 Miami Heat team that was largely composed of other teams' castoffs like Dion Waiters, Hasan Whiteside and James Johnson; as well as homegrown talent set to be wildly overpaid like Tyler Johnson and Justise Winslow. That team almost immediately became a dumpster fire after they secured long-term deals and may have very well cost the Heat a chance at a title at present. All it took to get Chris Paul last offseason was some combination of salary cap relief and a draft pick, neither of which the Heat had because of the commitments they already made to those players. To the extent the Heat are now title contenders, is owed almost entirely to brilliant draft decisions (Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro and possibly Precious Achiwua) and player development (Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn). That is the recipe for success and why I feel like we need to get back as many draft picks as possible for players like Julius Randle, Reggie Bullock, Mitch Robinson and even Frank Ntilikina (who I'm still a fan of).

The reason I don't like the trade is that you're taking on a bunch of trash while getting one draft pick. I think you need multiple firsts just to pick up the phone. Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone is untradable. Just need the right package.

Fair enough. I'd have no interest in keeping Bagley and co. I only proposed them because they are expendable talents that allow us to match salaries without screwing up our cap sheet next season. How much more in draft compensation could we get back for moving Randle though?

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Personally, I'd start by giviving the Kings a call. If they were willing to give up their lightly protected 2021 1st round pick for Julius Randle, I'd be more than happy to oblige. Does Julius Randle and Austin Rivers for Marvin Bagley, Nemana Bjelica, Jabari Parker and their 2021 first round pick work for both sides?

I mentioned this in another thread, but I'd be more than happy to take back the Danilo Gallinari for a favorable package from the Hawks. If they were willing to give me a premium first or some combination of protected picks, pick swaps and/or their youth I'd oblige as well.

Not for this side! We just got an all star and we are trading him for inferior players? Cant get my head around that one. We dont need another first. We need all stars. Julius took 6 years to get here.

If you want to do a money deal using cap space I bet Kelly Oubre or Wiggins could be had from GS

One guy I would actually pay high to get would be Grant from Detroit.

We don't have an allstar. We have a guy that made an all-star team, which are two different things. The former is a perennial, consummate talent; the latter is circumstantial.

Just to be clear though: I'm a fan of Randle and the improvement he's made. But at the end of the day, we're a barely .500 team (with only a +0.5 differential) despite playing one of the softer schedules in the league and having everything break our way this season. So, let's not pretend we've caught lightening in a bottle because what we are is not sustainable and can't be scaled. Even more concerning is the fact that Randle is set to become incredibly expensive after next season when he becomes a free agent. History shows that marginal teams, with marginal talent like we have can badly screw themselves by making long-term commitments to players that don't deserve them.

This team reminds me a lot of that 2016-2017 Miami Heat team that was largely composed of other teams' castoffs like Dion Waiters, Hasan Whiteside and James Johnson; as well as homegrown talent set to be wildly overpaid like Tyler Johnson and Justise Winslow. That team almost immediately became a dumpster fire after they secured long-term deals and may have very well cost the Heat a chance at a title at present. All it took to get Chris Paul last offseason was some combination of salary cap relief and a draft pick, neither of which the Heat had because of the commitments they already made to those players. To the extent the Heat are now title contenders, is owed almost entirely to brilliant draft decisions (Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro and possibly Precious Achiwua) and player development (Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn). That is the recipe for success and why I feel like we need to get back as many draft picks as possible for players like Julius Randle, Reggie Bullock, Mitch Robinson and even Frank Ntilikina (who I'm still a fan of).

The reason I don't like the trade is that you're taking on a bunch of trash while getting one draft pick. I think you need multiple firsts just to pick up the phone. Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone is untradable. Just need the right package.

Fair enough. I'd have no interest in keeping Bagley and co. I only proposed them because they are expendable talents that allow us to match salaries without screwing up our cap sheet next season. How much more in draft compensation could we get back for moving Randle though?

I'd say at least three picks. I'm using Holiday as barometer. I'm keeping in mind the fact that Jewlz has done this for one year. Even still, he's playing like a top 20 player. I want to add, I'm not really motivated to move him. But I completely understand the other side of the argument.

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Personally, I'd start by giviving the Kings a call. If they were willing to give up their lightly protected 2021 1st round pick for Julius Randle, I'd be more than happy to oblige. Does Julius Randle and Austin Rivers for Marvin Bagley, Nemana Bjelica, Jabari Parker and their 2021 first round pick work for both sides?

I mentioned this in another thread, but I'd be more than happy to take back the Danilo Gallinari for a favorable package from the Hawks. If they were willing to give me a premium first or some combination of protected picks, pick swaps and/or their youth I'd oblige as well.

Not for this side! We just got an all star and we are trading him for inferior players? Cant get my head around that one. We dont need another first. We need all stars. Julius took 6 years to get here.

If you want to do a money deal using cap space I bet Kelly Oubre or Wiggins could be had from GS

One guy I would actually pay high to get would be Grant from Detroit.

We don't have an allstar. We have a guy that made an all-star team, which are two different things. The former is a perennial, consummate talent; the latter is circumstantial.

Just to be clear though: I'm a fan of Randle and the improvement he's made. But at the end of the day, we're a barely .500 team (with only a +0.5 differential) despite playing one of the softer schedules in the league and having everything break our way this season. So, let's not pretend we've caught lightening in a bottle because what we are is not sustainable and can't be scaled. Even more concerning is the fact that Randle is set to become incredibly expensive after next season when he becomes a free agent. History shows that marginal teams, with marginal talent like we have can badly screw themselves by making long-term commitments to players that don't deserve them.

This team reminds me a lot of that 2016-2017 Miami Heat team that was largely composed of other teams' castoffs like Dion Waiters, Hasan Whiteside and James Johnson; as well as homegrown talent set to be wildly overpaid like Tyler Johnson and Justise Winslow. That team almost immediately became a dumpster fire after they secured long-term deals and may have very well cost the Heat a chance at a title at present. All it took to get Chris Paul last offseason was some combination of salary cap relief and a draft pick, neither of which the Heat had because of the commitments they already made to those players. To the extent the Heat are now title contenders, is owed almost entirely to brilliant draft decisions (Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro and possibly Precious Achiwua) and player development (Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn). That is the recipe for success and why I feel like we need to get back as many draft picks as possible for players like Julius Randle, Reggie Bullock, Mitch Robinson and even Frank Ntilikina (who I'm still a fan of).

Damn Nard, you might actually be psychologically damaged by the Knicks. Let me start by saying that I get your point. That said, you are being too hard on the Knicks. And you are overvaluing draft picks. We do have an “all star”. We don’t have a superstar. Your definition is closer to superstar than “all star”. It’s not circumstantial. It’s recognition. Randle is an All Star player.

Next, trading him for a 1st does nothing for us. We are inundated with youth. More so, his work ethic is leading the charge on this team. I’d be more likely to take some of our wealth of picks and trade them for veteran and/or all star players rather than accept picks back.

Mitch Robinson is off limits for one more year based primarily on contract alone. Being able to fill the 5 for 1.9mm next year is a bonanza for capologists. Having Quickley fill the 6th man for another 1.9 is a double bonus round bonanza. We are looking at close to 72mm of cap space before moving young players around.

They have 3 starting lineup spots and the 6th man filled for 34mm.

I would consolidate our picks to move up in the draft. I would trade picks and youth to get youthful talent. But I wouldn’t reset.

Don’t give up on the playoffs and tank. We are sitting in 5th and have hung with some pretty tough teams in the first half.

jskinny35 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Personally, I'd start by giviving the Kings a call. If they were willing to give up their lightly protected 2021 1st round pick for Julius Randle, I'd be more than happy to oblige. Does Julius Randle and Austin Rivers for Marvin Bagley, Nemana Bjelica, Jabari Parker and their 2021 first round pick work for both sides?

I mentioned this in another thread, but I'd be more than happy to take back the Danilo Gallinari for a favorable package from the Hawks. If they were willing to give me a premium first or some combination of protected picks, pick swaps and/or their youth I'd oblige as well.

Not for this side! We just got an all star and we are trading him for inferior players? Cant get my head around that one. We dont need another first. We need all stars. Julius took 6 years to get here.

If you want to do a money deal using cap space I bet Kelly Oubre or Wiggins could be had from GS

One guy I would actually pay high to get would be Grant from Detroit.

We don't have an allstar. We have a guy that made an all-star team, which are two different things. The former is a perennial, consummate talent; the latter is circumstantial.

Just to be clear though: I'm a fan of Randle and the improvement he's made. But at the end of the day, we're a barely .500 team (with only a +0.5 differential) despite playing one of the softer schedules in the league and having everything break our way this season. So, let's not pretend we've caught lightening in a bottle because what we are is not sustainable and can't be scaled. Even more concerning is the fact that Randle is set to become incredibly expensive after next season when he becomes a free agent. History shows that marginal teams, with marginal talent like we have can badly screw themselves by making long-term commitments to players that don't deserve them.

This team reminds me a lot of that 2016-2017 Miami Heat team that was largely composed of other teams' castoffs like Dion Waiters, Hasan Whiteside and James Johnson; as well as homegrown talent set to be wildly overpaid like Tyler Johnson and Justise Winslow. That team almost immediately became a dumpster fire after they secured long-term deals and may have very well cost the Heat a chance at a title at present. All it took to get Chris Paul last offseason was some combination of salary cap relief and a draft pick, neither of which the Heat had because of the commitments they already made to those players. To the extent the Heat are now title contenders, is owed almost entirely to brilliant draft decisions (Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro and possibly Precious Achiwua) and player development (Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn). That is the recipe for success and why I feel like we need to get back as many draft picks as possible for players like Julius Randle, Reggie Bullock, Mitch Robinson and even Frank Ntilikina (who I'm still a fan of).

Agree 100% - while Randle deserves credit to getting us back to being respectable - he's not a long-term investment at the money he would command when a FA. If you know this a year before it happens - you sell high if you can. You roll the dice on a draft pick turning into the 1A option as we already have a 1B in RJ. Knicks are likely desperate to not be bad any longer but they need to see where the ceiling is with this roster.

Particularly if you have the opportunity to nab a lottery pick in a draft being billed as one of the best ever. I won't pretend to be some expert in evaluating college-level talent but even I can see how tantalizing some of these players are. Jonathan Kuminga and Jalen Green are both guys that could be available with a Sacramento Kings pick and are looking like box office players, IMO. Imagine if we had the ability to pair them both together!

In spite of my concerns, I'll say this: I've never had more faith in a front office (since 1999) than I do this one. We're finally functioning like a normal franchise, so kudos to Leon Rose and co. Outside of that Toppin pick, I've been pleased with all of their acquisitions and player development. I just hope they make the right decision in this context because it'll be crucial to the direction of this franchise moving forward. You can't build a foundation on quicksand, after all.

EwingsGlass wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Personally, I'd start by giviving the Kings a call. If they were willing to give up their lightly protected 2021 1st round pick for Julius Randle, I'd be more than happy to oblige. Does Julius Randle and Austin Rivers for Marvin Bagley, Nemana Bjelica, Jabari Parker and their 2021 first round pick work for both sides?

I mentioned this in another thread, but I'd be more than happy to take back the Danilo Gallinari for a favorable package from the Hawks. If they were willing to give me a premium first or some combination of protected picks, pick swaps and/or their youth I'd oblige as well.

Not for this side! We just got an all star and we are trading him for inferior players? Cant get my head around that one. We dont need another first. We need all stars. Julius took 6 years to get here.

If you want to do a money deal using cap space I bet Kelly Oubre or Wiggins could be had from GS

One guy I would actually pay high to get would be Grant from Detroit.

We don't have an allstar. We have a guy that made an all-star team, which are two different things. The former is a perennial, consummate talent; the latter is circumstantial.

Just to be clear though: I'm a fan of Randle and the improvement he's made. But at the end of the day, we're a barely .500 team (with only a +0.5 differential) despite playing one of the softer schedules in the league and having everything break our way this season. So, let's not pretend we've caught lightening in a bottle because what we are is not sustainable and can't be scaled. Even more concerning is the fact that Randle is set to become incredibly expensive after next season when he becomes a free agent. History shows that marginal teams, with marginal talent like we have can badly screw themselves by making long-term commitments to players that don't deserve them.

This team reminds me a lot of that 2016-2017 Miami Heat team that was largely composed of other teams' castoffs like Dion Waiters, Hasan Whiteside and James Johnson; as well as homegrown talent set to be wildly overpaid like Tyler Johnson and Justise Winslow. That team almost immediately became a dumpster fire after they secured long-term deals and may have very well cost the Heat a chance at a title at present. All it took to get Chris Paul last offseason was some combination of salary cap relief and a draft pick, neither of which the Heat had because of the commitments they already made to those players. To the extent the Heat are now title contenders, is owed almost entirely to brilliant draft decisions (Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro and possibly Precious Achiwua) and player development (Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn). That is the recipe for success and why I feel like we need to get back as many draft picks as possible for players like Julius Randle, Reggie Bullock, Mitch Robinson and even Frank Ntilikina (who I'm still a fan of).

Damn Nard, you might actually be psychologically damaged by the Knicks. Let me start by saying that I get your point. That said, you are being too hard on the Knicks. And you are overvaluing draft picks. We do have an “all star”. We don’t have a superstar. Your definition is closer to superstar than “all star”. It’s not circumstantial. It’s recognition. Randle is an All Star player.

Next, trading him for a 1st does nothing for us. We are inundated with youth. More so, his work ethic is leading the charge on this team. I’d be more likely to take some of our wealth of picks and trade them for veteran and/or all star players rather than accept picks back.

Mitch Robinson is off limits for one more year based primarily on contract alone. Being able to fill the 5 for 1.9mm next year is a bonanza for capologists. Having Quickley fill the 6th man for another 1.9 is a double bonus round bonanza. We are looking at close to 72mm of cap space before moving young players around.

They have 3 starting lineup spots and the 6th man filled for 34mm.

I would consolidate our picks to move up in the draft. I would trade picks and youth to get youthful talent. But I wouldn’t reset.

Don’t give up on the playoffs and tank. We are sitting in 5th and have hung with some pretty tough teams in the first half.

I definitely think my time as a Knick fan has made me jaded but still sober-minded. We've created a nice little narrative early on this season but I think it won't last.

(1) We've played one of the easiest schedules to date. Moving forward, we'll have the 5th toughest schedule based upon Strength of Schedule. That means we are more likely to be exposed against better, more adept opponents.

(2) We've been massively advantaged by being one of the few teams to miss the bubble last season. That means we had almost 10 months to rest, whereas other teams had a month or so before returning to the grind. I suspect that is a reason why we've been able to avoid significant injury, save Mitchell Robinson- which hasn't had an impact yet due to how recent it's been.

(3) We haven't had to deal with a COVID outbreak unlike a number of other teams. Even after being cleared/"healthy" it still has long-lasting consequences that affect players. Just listen to Jayson Tatum and the impact its had on his conditioning....and then take a look at how badly the Celtics are floundering. That could've been us!

And in spite of all these major advantages, the Knicks are only barely .500 with a +0.5 differential. It only takes one losing streak (3 games minimum) to drop from our current 5th seed to the 12th seed. If that were to happen, just imagine the amount of leverage we'd lose with trades!

The safer bet, IMO, is to sell high while we still do have that leverage. I think we're on the precipice of being badly exposed and that it's best to strike while the iron is hot. Coming into this season, no one thought we'd be competitive and rightly so...because our roster is a mismatch of marginal talents. 538's projections had us as the 3rd worst team in the East this season. We've been lucky to bet those projections but will start regressing toward that mean.

Better to get as many draft picks as we can to continue the rebuild. As much as we have youth, they have not shown to be integral to our rebuild. We still desperately need a franchise-caliber talent; like the Pelicans have with Zion, the Grizzlies have with Ja Morant and the Mavs have with Luka. The only way you get those types of players is through free agency and the draft. Free agency won't be an option, so draft it is!

Now we finally have a little bit of extra money (being just above 500) so some logic says to keep saying/accruing small and incrementally (trade/dump the Bullocks, Paytons and Rivers for 2nd rounders). The old Knicks regime would take all this and gamble with a much riskier signing that would be catastrophic if it didn't work out (and it usually never did).

The main difference is we currently have a commodity that won't pay off it's value down the road - we should know that. Randle is very good but will command a lot of money (more than his worth) soon. There are lots of teams that have potentially high draft picks which could be like trading a dime for the chance at one of the following (2 dimes, 2 quarters, $1 dollar). If we could package Randle for a chance at a top 5 pick - it would be a low risk in that at worse case you would likely end up with another dime. Odds in this upcoming top 5 suggest you're more likely to get a quarter (Ja, Zion) or a $1 (Lebron) caliber player. This idea of adding an Oladipo (who can't shoot well from outside) may help us get to the playoffs but seems short-sighted.

If we keep Randle and then resign him at the amount he will likely command - we'll end up having to trade him or others down the road if we do have the opportunity to sign/trade for a 1A player. And who are these 4 or 5 players that would fit what we would need (eg not be too old, salary is somewhat commensurate to talent, didn't win elsewhere but wants to play here)...

Booker it's possible I can see in a year or so (after Paul starts to slide) that could possibly force his way out and come to NY.
Giannis - no chance here after his brother was supposedly treated poorly.
Lebron - only if he sustains a career-ending injury and we draft his son when LJ turns 42.
AD - injured now and won't bail on Lakers for 2 more years.
Nets trio - pass!
Lavine - he could possibly be in play if Chi continues to struggle

Yes it's possible Randle could be traded back for a hypothetical All-star talented player - but with a young team and all these picks - think the timelines would be far off and landing one of these top 5-6 players this year would also give us more financial flexibility going forward. We're investing with free money and should use it to not swing for the fences - but line our pockets so we have more options down the road. RJ and Mitch are young btw. Toppin and IQ also useful young players. We're treading water for the next 2-3 years when we could sink a little now and be in an even more solid/stable position in the near future. Everyone says this is the draft to be in - maybe not terrible if we gather more assets and can use the draft capital to get into the top 5 this year. Thibs will still have us playing hard so it's not tanking

NardDogNation wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Personally, I'd start by giviving the Kings a call. If they were willing to give up their lightly protected 2021 1st round pick for Julius Randle, I'd be more than happy to oblige. Does Julius Randle and Austin Rivers for Marvin Bagley, Nemana Bjelica, Jabari Parker and their 2021 first round pick work for both sides?

I mentioned this in another thread, but I'd be more than happy to take back the Danilo Gallinari for a favorable package from the Hawks. If they were willing to give me a premium first or some combination of protected picks, pick swaps and/or their youth I'd oblige as well.

Not for this side! We just got an all star and we are trading him for inferior players? Cant get my head around that one. We dont need another first. We need all stars. Julius took 6 years to get here.

If you want to do a money deal using cap space I bet Kelly Oubre or Wiggins could be had from GS

One guy I would actually pay high to get would be Grant from Detroit.

We don't have an allstar. We have a guy that made an all-star team, which are two different things. The former is a perennial, consummate talent; the latter is circumstantial.

Just to be clear though: I'm a fan of Randle and the improvement he's made. But at the end of the day, we're a barely .500 team (with only a +0.5 differential) despite playing one of the softer schedules in the league and having everything break our way this season. So, let's not pretend we've caught lightening in a bottle because what we are is not sustainable and can't be scaled. Even more concerning is the fact that Randle is set to become incredibly expensive after next season when he becomes a free agent. History shows that marginal teams, with marginal talent like we have can badly screw themselves by making long-term commitments to players that don't deserve them.

This team reminds me a lot of that 2016-2017 Miami Heat team that was largely composed of other teams' castoffs like Dion Waiters, Hasan Whiteside and James Johnson; as well as homegrown talent set to be wildly overpaid like Tyler Johnson and Justise Winslow. That team almost immediately became a dumpster fire after they secured long-term deals and may have very well cost the Heat a chance at a title at present. All it took to get Chris Paul last offseason was some combination of salary cap relief and a draft pick, neither of which the Heat had because of the commitments they already made to those players. To the extent the Heat are now title contenders, is owed almost entirely to brilliant draft decisions (Bam Adebayo, Tyler Herro and possibly Precious Achiwua) and player development (Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn). That is the recipe for success and why I feel like we need to get back as many draft picks as possible for players like Julius Randle, Reggie Bullock, Mitch Robinson and even Frank Ntilikina (who I'm still a fan of).

Damn Nard, you might actually be psychologically damaged by the Knicks. Let me start by saying that I get your point. That said, you are being too hard on the Knicks. And you are overvaluing draft picks. We do have an “all star”. We don’t have a superstar. Your definition is closer to superstar than “all star”. It’s not circumstantial. It’s recognition. Randle is an All Star player.

Next, trading him for a 1st does nothing for us. We are inundated with youth. More so, his work ethic is leading the charge on this team. I’d be more likely to take some of our wealth of picks and trade them for veteran and/or all star players rather than accept picks back.

Mitch Robinson is off limits for one more year based primarily on contract alone. Being able to fill the 5 for 1.9mm next year is a bonanza for capologists. Having Quickley fill the 6th man for another 1.9 is a double bonus round bonanza. We are looking at close to 72mm of cap space before moving young players around.

They have 3 starting lineup spots and the 6th man filled for 34mm.

I would consolidate our picks to move up in the draft. I would trade picks and youth to get youthful talent. But I wouldn’t reset.

Don’t give up on the playoffs and tank. We are sitting in 5th and have hung with some pretty tough teams in the first half.

I definitely think my time as a Knick fan has made me jaded but still sober-minded. We've created a nice little narrative early on this season but I think it won't last.

(1) We've played one of the easiest schedules to date. Moving forward, we'll have the 5th toughest schedule based upon Strength of Schedule. That means we are more likely to be exposed against better, more adept opponents.

(2) We've been massively advantaged by being one of the few teams to miss the bubble last season. That means we had almost 10 months to rest, whereas other teams had a month or so before returning to the grind. I suspect that is a reason why we've been able to avoid significant injury, save Mitchell Robinson- which hasn't had an impact yet due to how recent it's been.

(3) We haven't had to deal with a COVID outbreak unlike a number of other teams. Even after being cleared/"healthy" it still has long-lasting consequences that affect players. Just listen to Jayson Tatum and the impact its had on his conditioning....and then take a look at how badly the Celtics are floundering. That could've been us!

And in spite of all these major advantages, the Knicks are only barely .500 with a +0.5 differential. It only takes one losing streak (3 games minimum) to drop from our current 5th seed to the 12th seed. If that were to happen, just imagine the amount of leverage we'd lose with trades!

The safer bet, IMO, is to sell high while we still do have that leverage. I think we're on the precipice of being badly exposed and that it's best to strike while the iron is hot. Coming into this season, no one thought we'd be competitive and rightly so...because our roster is a mismatch of marginal talents. 538's projections had us as the 3rd worst team in the East this season. We've been lucky to bet those projections but will start regressing toward that mean.

Better to get as many draft picks as we can to continue the rebuild. As much as we have youth, they have not shown to be integral to our rebuild. We still desperately need a franchise-caliber talent; like the Pelicans have with Zion, the Grizzlies have with Ja Morant and the Mavs have with Luka. The only way you get those types of players is through free agency and the draft. Free agency won't be an option, so draft it is!

I appreciate the thoughtful responses.

(1) This isn’t entirely true. The Knicks rolled some tough teams and started with a grueling time schedule. They in fact started with the most rest disadvantaged games in the league.

“ The Knicks have a league-high nine rest-disadvantage games (the second game of all nine of their back-to-backs) in the first half of the season.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nba.com/news/analyzing-the-1st-half-of-the-2020-21-season%3famp=1

(2) I don’t understand how not playing youth players is an advantage. The Knicks basically walked into this season with among the least professional games played than any other team in the league. They had a two week pre-season to bring in a new coach, create a new team and learn a new system. Only thing that made this possible was the amount of offseason work these guys did on their own. So, where Harden and Doncic walked into training looking like Donuts, guys like Randle showed up ripped and read my to play. Maybe that conditioning is a side effect of an extended offseason, but it didn’t sound restful.

(3) I’ll agree the Knicks benefited here. But Not abusing Covid protocols isn’t a random benefit. The Nets issues are self inflicted because grown men making millions of dollars can’t miss the club for a couple months. There may be some randomness to this and other teams may improve their performance by following league protocol in the future and keeping their players on the courts.

Thing is, most of the talent on this team is based on team play. I don’t think there is a sell high plan that really rewards the Knicks for what they have. Randle’s defense has been pretty good. Barrett’s also. Draft pick worth is a function of both the player’s skills, the team’s developmental ability and the opportunity. Obi doesn’t have an opportunity to play, so the first two are not really there.

If your logic is that you move Randle cause Toppin is ready and able to take that position, that is one thing. If it’s to trade Randle cause you’d rather roll the dice than keep building, well, that’s just a gambling problem. Any rookie we draft next year will be better off seeing this team play together and working hard than coming into a cold system.

I’m looking for the guy to put next to Randle (an up and coming Jerami Grant type) and a long PG that doesn’t need to be the ball handler (Frank could really be that guy). I want defensive passion and length that closes out the 3pt line. Make Lillard and Curry take half court shots with a hand in their face.

In two or three years when these star-friend teams are aging out, there will be a team of 25-30 year old players with lock down defense, all their draft picks and rocking house that is too loud to play in...

Until then, keep grinding.

newyorknewyork wrote:Do we have Rozier yet?

Burks and the Detroit second? Hahaha MJ will make up with Barkley before he ever signs off on a fair deal with the Knicks.

Nalod wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Do we have Rozier yet?

Burks and the Detroit second? Hahaha MJ will make up with Barkley before he ever signs off on a fair deal with the Knicks.

Why? Did not rape us for years on the court?
Or he upset we got two 2nd round picks for Willie Hernangomez?

I dunno. But at some point, he decided that he'd rather eating Nic Batum's deal then do a trade for lottery pick. I think he still takes all of the JVG banter personally.

The addition of one good role player coud be the difference between making and not making the playoffs. Making the playoffs will go a long way towards attracting stars. So I hope there is a deal out there to be made.