TLover wrote:Would like to see Barrett run the point with Quickly as a co-point/shooting guard.

This is what you are going to see alot of this year. Rivers will probably start at the 2 as well. Rivers is a good team defender and decent shooter.

Jimbo5 wrote:I hope we stick with a point guard rotation of Frank, Quickley and DSJ. I would like for Frank to be able to secure the starting point guard position but i see him spending time at the shooting Guard spot together with quickley at the point with DSJ becoming the 3rd string point guard of the team unless his shooting drastically improves as well.

pretty much whats going to happen, RJ will run some point too

TPercy wrote:Don't want to see RJ running anything until that handle + right hand tightens up.

I agree. I want to see him become a much bigger scoring threat this season. That is his strength. His passing is good but that should never be fully relief on.

Nalod wrote:Westbrook hung 27 and seven last season.
He is not coming WITH PICKS as a dump. I can’t tell you his value nor do I think he is right for this team but I can’t see at age 31 this guy being treaded like he is cooked.

Ditto. I think that’s a pipe-dream for people that want him on the Knicks. He hasn’t really shown signs of physically slowing down either, even though that’s bound to happen.

The price for him is going to be really high just as it was high when the Rockets got him. The Rockets have every right to put a high price tag on him. If Westy doesn’t like it then too bad. He is under contract. The league needs to take control here a little anyway even though I tend to side with the players.

And the Knicks should have never had an eye on him in the first place. He never made sense and neither does Harden.

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Westbrook hung 27 and seven last season.
He is not coming WITH PICKS as a dump. I can’t tell you his value nor do I think he is right for this team but I can’t see at age 31 this guy being treaded like he is cooked.

Ditto. I think that’s a pipe-dream for people that want him on the Knicks. He hasn’t really shown signs of physically slowing down either, even though that’s bound to happen.

The price for him is going to be really high just as it was high when the Rockets got him. The Rockets have every right to put a high price tag on him. If Westy doesn’t like it then too bad. He is under contract. The league needs to take control here a little anyway even though I tend to side with the players.

And the Knicks should have never had an eye on him in the first place. He never made sense and neither does Harden.

OKC and the Rockets were asking for draft picks plus Mitchell Robinson. F that.

Just build through the draft.

foosballnick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Westbrook hung 27 and seven last season.
He is not coming WITH PICKS as a dump. I can’t tell you his value nor do I think he is right for this team but I can’t see at age 31 this guy being treaded like he is cooked.

Ditto. I think that’s a pipe-dream for people that want him on the Knicks. He hasn’t really shown signs of physically slowing down either, even though that’s bound to happen.

The price for him is going to be really high just as it was high when the Rockets got him. The Rockets have every right to put a high price tag on him. If Westy doesn’t like it then too bad. He is under contract. The league needs to take control here a little anyway even though I tend to side with the players.

And the Knicks should have never had an eye on him in the first place. He never made sense and neither does Harden.

Then who makes sense, Because young stars like (booker, Mitchell, Murry, Kat, Jackson) are not coming here via trade or FA.

The idea of putting a veteran ALL star is to help build the confidence of your youth, the culture, winning habits.

As long as you think the right way to develop is to get guys around the same age, we are going to be a very bad team, because thats not the way stars are born.

A loss to most players under 24 is another day in the clubs after the loss, a loss to a vet result in the gym/film room after the loss..

Leon Rose-led Knicks will be rewarded for rare patience in rebuilding effort
The Knicks are finally acting like a typical rebuilding team

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/leon-rose-led-knicks-will-be-rewarded-for-rare-patience-in-rebuilding-effort/

By Sam Quinn
Dec 1, 2020 at 9:48 am ET

New Knicks regimes can usually be judged by how quickly it takes them to make a bad decision. Over the past two decades and change, almost every new front office has tried to put its stamp on the team immediately to disastrous results. Scott Layden gave Latrell Sprewell a five-year max contract extension less than three months into his tenure. Isiah Thomas only needed two weeks to trade away his team's future for Stephon Marbury. Steve Mills broke both of their records by torpedoing his tenure before it even began. He signed Tim Hardaway Jr. to a four-year, $72 million deal while David Griffin was en route to New York to interview for the team's presidency, effectively scaring him off of the job and opening the door for Mills to claim it.

Other regimes have started more promisingly but succumbed to the same temptations. Phil Jackson re-signed Carmelo Anthony at his peak and drafted Kristaps Porzingis before showing his true colors by burning his cap space on Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee and Derrick Rose. Donnie Walsh spent two years meticulously carving out cap space, and the result was the best stretch of Knicks basketball this century: three consecutive playoff berths and a series win. But he resigned, and replacement, Glen Grunwald, immediately wasted his amnesty clause on Chauncey Billups to sign Tyson Chandler when it could have later been used to create the flexibility to add Chris Paul.

The common thread is impatience. Things go wrong in New York when the Knicks hit fast forward, seeking out or retaining big-name players when doing so didn't make sense in the organization's present context. For months, the Leon Rose administration appeared destined to make the same mistakes. The Knicks were linked to Chris Paul ... and Russell Westbrook ... and Victor Oladipo ... and Gordon Hayward. How close they came to connecting on such an ill-advised home run swing is unknowable, but also irrelevant. Even if they were interested, they set a price and stuck to it. Restraint is a step toward patience.

And patience is what the Knicks needed this offseason. That has nothing to do with their previous foibles. In fact, it's the opposite. The Knicks, as presently constructed, are a rebuilding team. The sensible approach to having a rebuilding Knicks team is to act like a rebuilding team instead of acting like the Knicks. The former somewhat consistently yields winning basketball. The latter inevitably leads to disaster.

There was no scenario in which the addition of a Hayward or a Westbrook would have launched the Knicks into short-term championship contention. Given Atlanta's improvements, it probably wouldn't have gotten them into the Eastern Conference's top eight either. But it would have clogged their cap sheet, deprived their youngsters of badly needed developmental touches and artificially created unwarranted expectations. A team led by Westbrook, RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson shouldn't make the playoffs, but good luck convincing James Dolan of that.

They are the sort of moves a team makes when it views merely reaching the postseason as a worthwhile goal. Eventually it might become one, but as a stepping stone rather than a destination. The ultimate objective in New York will always be championships, and a playoff pursuit would have proven counterproductive on that front with the loaded 2021 NBA Draft looming. A star in his 30s might be ill-advised for this roster, but a teenaged one is a different story. Atlanta, Charlotte and Detroit all made big win-now splashes. The path to the bottom, save a surprisingly inactive Cleveland team, is unobstructed. The reward for patience is another top young talent.

But the 2020-21 season was all about developing the incumbents. Barrett and Robinson were miscast on a power forward-centric roster last season. This year's roster hasn't exactly been upgraded. Free-agent additions Nerlens Noel and Austin Rivers don't exactly improve New York's spacing. Ball-hog extraordinaire Julius Randle remains in place. The Knicks probably could have made better immediate use of their cap space. But they didn't exactly make life harder on Barrett and Robinson either. Robinson should become a full-time starter for the first time in his career. If Obi Toppin joins him in the frontcourt, the Knicks will at least have a modicum of shooting. Fellow rookie Immanuel Quickley brings some off the bench as well. Spacing is easy enough to find even at this stage of free agency when teams are willing to compromise for it. Defensive sacrifices aren't as painful to teams without immediate ambitions.

Rose's regime appears to be the first in recent Knicks history without them, or at least the will to surrender such fantasies when faced with reality. That will is going to be tested. Slow starts tend to produce calls for fast action. Westbrook and Oladipo rumors aren't going anywhere so long as their situations remain unsettled. Buckle up if any of Rose's former CAA clients become available. There's a long way to go here.

But for the first time in two decades, the Knicks seem at least open to acknowledging that. They aren't acting desperately. They aren't skipping steps. They're acting like any other rebuilding team. They're giving their young players opportunities instead of trying to cherry-pick mercenaries from other teams. They're spending their cap space on assets instead of veterans (three second-round picks just for facilitating an Ed Davis trade!)

They've put off this regime's first great mistake. That mistake will come eventually. Even Pat Riley and Masai Ujiri have misses. But Knicks history is unkind to executives who make those mistakes early. Rose hasn't, and even if most of the hard work still remains, it's a barrier most of his predecessors failed to clear. It's the first step toward eventually turning the Knicks into a real winner.

Great read!!! Thanks for posting!

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Westbrook hung 27 and seven last season.
He is not coming WITH PICKS as a dump. I can’t tell you his value nor do I think he is right for this team but I can’t see at age 31 this guy being treaded like he is cooked.

Ditto. I think that’s a pipe-dream for people that want him on the Knicks. He hasn’t really shown signs of physically slowing down either, even though that’s bound to happen.

The price for him is going to be really high just as it was high when the Rockets got him. The Rockets have every right to put a high price tag on him. If Westy doesn’t like it then too bad. He is under contract. The league needs to take control here a little anyway even though I tend to side with the players.

And the Knicks should have never had an eye on him in the first place. He never made sense and neither does Harden.

Then who makes sense, Because young stars like (booker, Mitchell, Murry, Kat, Jackson) are not coming here via trade or FA.

The idea of putting a veteran ALL star is to help build the confidence of your youth, the culture, winning habits.

As long as you think the right way to develop is to get guys around the same age, we are going to be a very bad team, because thats not the way stars are born.

A loss to most players under 24 is another day in the clubs after the loss, a loss to a vet result in the gym/film room after the loss..

Leon Rose-led Knicks will be rewarded for rare patience in rebuilding effort
The Knicks are finally acting like a typical rebuilding team

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/leon-rose-led-knicks-will-be-rewarded-for-rare-patience-in-rebuilding-effort/

By Sam Quinn
Dec 1, 2020 at 9:48 am ET

New Knicks regimes can usually be judged by how quickly it takes them to make a bad decision. Over the past two decades and change, almost every new front office has tried to put its stamp on the team immediately to disastrous results. Scott Layden gave Latrell Sprewell a five-year max contract extension less than three months into his tenure. Isiah Thomas only needed two weeks to trade away his team's future for Stephon Marbury. Steve Mills broke both of their records by torpedoing his tenure before it even began. He signed Tim Hardaway Jr. to a four-year, $72 million deal while David Griffin was en route to New York to interview for the team's presidency, effectively scaring him off of the job and opening the door for Mills to claim it.

Other regimes have started more promisingly but succumbed to the same temptations. Phil Jackson re-signed Carmelo Anthony at his peak and drafted Kristaps Porzingis before showing his true colors by burning his cap space on Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee and Derrick Rose. Donnie Walsh spent two years meticulously carving out cap space, and the result was the best stretch of Knicks basketball this century: three consecutive playoff berths and a series win. But he resigned, and replacement, Glen Grunwald, immediately wasted his amnesty clause on Chauncey Billups to sign Tyson Chandler when it could have later been used to create the flexibility to add Chris Paul.

The common thread is impatience. Things go wrong in New York when the Knicks hit fast forward, seeking out or retaining big-name players when doing so didn't make sense in the organization's present context. For months, the Leon Rose administration appeared destined to make the same mistakes. The Knicks were linked to Chris Paul ... and Russell Westbrook ... and Victor Oladipo ... and Gordon Hayward. How close they came to connecting on such an ill-advised home run swing is unknowable, but also irrelevant. Even if they were interested, they set a price and stuck to it. Restraint is a step toward patience.

And patience is what the Knicks needed this offseason. That has nothing to do with their previous foibles. In fact, it's the opposite. The Knicks, as presently constructed, are a rebuilding team. The sensible approach to having a rebuilding Knicks team is to act like a rebuilding team instead of acting like the Knicks. The former somewhat consistently yields winning basketball. The latter inevitably leads to disaster.

There was no scenario in which the addition of a Hayward or a Westbrook would have launched the Knicks into short-term championship contention. Given Atlanta's improvements, it probably wouldn't have gotten them into the Eastern Conference's top eight either. But it would have clogged their cap sheet, deprived their youngsters of badly needed developmental touches and artificially created unwarranted expectations. A team led by Westbrook, RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson shouldn't make the playoffs, but good luck convincing James Dolan of that.

They are the sort of moves a team makes when it views merely reaching the postseason as a worthwhile goal. Eventually it might become one, but as a stepping stone rather than a destination. The ultimate objective in New York will always be championships, and a playoff pursuit would have proven counterproductive on that front with the loaded 2021 NBA Draft looming. A star in his 30s might be ill-advised for this roster, but a teenaged one is a different story. Atlanta, Charlotte and Detroit all made big win-now splashes. The path to the bottom, save a surprisingly inactive Cleveland team, is unobstructed. The reward for patience is another top young talent.

But the 2020-21 season was all about developing the incumbents. Barrett and Robinson were miscast on a power forward-centric roster last season. This year's roster hasn't exactly been upgraded. Free-agent additions Nerlens Noel and Austin Rivers don't exactly improve New York's spacing. Ball-hog extraordinaire Julius Randle remains in place. The Knicks probably could have made better immediate use of their cap space. But they didn't exactly make life harder on Barrett and Robinson either. Robinson should become a full-time starter for the first time in his career. If Obi Toppin joins him in the frontcourt, the Knicks will at least have a modicum of shooting. Fellow rookie Immanuel Quickley brings some off the bench as well. Spacing is easy enough to find even at this stage of free agency when teams are willing to compromise for it. Defensive sacrifices aren't as painful to teams without immediate ambitions.

Rose's regime appears to be the first in recent Knicks history without them, or at least the will to surrender such fantasies when faced with reality. That will is going to be tested. Slow starts tend to produce calls for fast action. Westbrook and Oladipo rumors aren't going anywhere so long as their situations remain unsettled. Buckle up if any of Rose's former CAA clients become available. There's a long way to go here.

But for the first time in two decades, the Knicks seem at least open to acknowledging that. They aren't acting desperately. They aren't skipping steps. They're acting like any other rebuilding team. They're giving their young players opportunities instead of trying to cherry-pick mercenaries from other teams. They're spending their cap space on assets instead of veterans (three second-round picks just for facilitating an Ed Davis trade!)

They've put off this regime's first great mistake. That mistake will come eventually. Even Pat Riley and Masai Ujiri have misses. But Knicks history is unkind to executives who make those mistakes early. Rose hasn't, and even if most of the hard work still remains, it's a barrier most of his predecessors failed to clear. It's the first step toward eventually turning the Knicks into a real winner.

Great read!!! Thanks for posting!

Was a very good article. Surprised that Perry's role in avoiding the pitfalls of past GMs, was obscured. Being smart with cap space, not getting taken in deals, started with Perry.

Should get some credit.

Good point...Right before the trade deadline, there were rumors that represented two separate ideals. On one hand, we were willing to trade draft picks and absorb bloated contracts of D'Angelo Russell and other rumored players. These were the type of short sighted moves Perry and Mills said we were done making. On the other hand, we were going to stick to plan and be smart about the cap by trading one or two of our assets (Morris and others that were on one year deals) to collect draft picks. In the end, Mills was fired, Perry remained and the path we took was to collect assets as opposed to trading them away. It's clear that Mills was the one the deviated from the plan while Perry stood firm. This is why Perry is still standing. He does deserve credit for that. Hopefully, we can continue to be smart...

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Westbrook hung 27 and seven last season.
He is not coming WITH PICKS as a dump. I can’t tell you his value nor do I think he is right for this team but I can’t see at age 31 this guy being treaded like he is cooked.

Ditto. I think that’s a pipe-dream for people that want him on the Knicks. He hasn’t really shown signs of physically slowing down either, even though that’s bound to happen.

The price for him is going to be really high just as it was high when the Rockets got him. The Rockets have every right to put a high price tag on him. If Westy doesn’t like it then too bad. He is under contract. The league needs to take control here a little anyway even though I tend to side with the players.

And the Knicks should have never had an eye on him in the first place. He never made sense and neither does Harden.

Then who makes sense, Because young stars like (booker, Mitchell, Murry, Kat, Jackson) are not coming here via trade or FA.

The idea of putting a veteran ALL star is to help build the confidence of your youth, the culture, winning habits.

As long as you think the right way to develop is to get guys around the same age, we are going to be a very bad team, because thats not the way stars are born.

A loss to most players under 24 is another day in the clubs after the loss, a loss to a vet result in the gym/film room after the loss..

Leon Rose-led Knicks will be rewarded for rare patience in rebuilding effort
The Knicks are finally acting like a typical rebuilding team

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/leon-rose-led-knicks-will-be-rewarded-for-rare-patience-in-rebuilding-effort/

By Sam Quinn
Dec 1, 2020 at 9:48 am ET

New Knicks regimes can usually be judged by how quickly it takes them to make a bad decision. Over the past two decades and change, almost every new front office has tried to put its stamp on the team immediately to disastrous results. Scott Layden gave Latrell Sprewell a five-year max contract extension less than three months into his tenure. Isiah Thomas only needed two weeks to trade away his team's future for Stephon Marbury. Steve Mills broke both of their records by torpedoing his tenure before it even began. He signed Tim Hardaway Jr. to a four-year, $72 million deal while David Griffin was en route to New York to interview for the team's presidency, effectively scaring him off of the job and opening the door for Mills to claim it.

Other regimes have started more promisingly but succumbed to the same temptations. Phil Jackson re-signed Carmelo Anthony at his peak and drafted Kristaps Porzingis before showing his true colors by burning his cap space on Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee and Derrick Rose. Donnie Walsh spent two years meticulously carving out cap space, and the result was the best stretch of Knicks basketball this century: three consecutive playoff berths and a series win. But he resigned, and replacement, Glen Grunwald, immediately wasted his amnesty clause on Chauncey Billups to sign Tyson Chandler when it could have later been used to create the flexibility to add Chris Paul.

The common thread is impatience. Things go wrong in New York when the Knicks hit fast forward, seeking out or retaining big-name players when doing so didn't make sense in the organization's present context. For months, the Leon Rose administration appeared destined to make the same mistakes. The Knicks were linked to Chris Paul ... and Russell Westbrook ... and Victor Oladipo ... and Gordon Hayward. How close they came to connecting on such an ill-advised home run swing is unknowable, but also irrelevant. Even if they were interested, they set a price and stuck to it. Restraint is a step toward patience.

And patience is what the Knicks needed this offseason. That has nothing to do with their previous foibles. In fact, it's the opposite. The Knicks, as presently constructed, are a rebuilding team. The sensible approach to having a rebuilding Knicks team is to act like a rebuilding team instead of acting like the Knicks. The former somewhat consistently yields winning basketball. The latter inevitably leads to disaster.

There was no scenario in which the addition of a Hayward or a Westbrook would have launched the Knicks into short-term championship contention. Given Atlanta's improvements, it probably wouldn't have gotten them into the Eastern Conference's top eight either. But it would have clogged their cap sheet, deprived their youngsters of badly needed developmental touches and artificially created unwarranted expectations. A team led by Westbrook, RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson shouldn't make the playoffs, but good luck convincing James Dolan of that.

They are the sort of moves a team makes when it views merely reaching the postseason as a worthwhile goal. Eventually it might become one, but as a stepping stone rather than a destination. The ultimate objective in New York will always be championships, and a playoff pursuit would have proven counterproductive on that front with the loaded 2021 NBA Draft looming. A star in his 30s might be ill-advised for this roster, but a teenaged one is a different story. Atlanta, Charlotte and Detroit all made big win-now splashes. The path to the bottom, save a surprisingly inactive Cleveland team, is unobstructed. The reward for patience is another top young talent.

But the 2020-21 season was all about developing the incumbents. Barrett and Robinson were miscast on a power forward-centric roster last season. This year's roster hasn't exactly been upgraded. Free-agent additions Nerlens Noel and Austin Rivers don't exactly improve New York's spacing. Ball-hog extraordinaire Julius Randle remains in place. The Knicks probably could have made better immediate use of their cap space. But they didn't exactly make life harder on Barrett and Robinson either. Robinson should become a full-time starter for the first time in his career. If Obi Toppin joins him in the frontcourt, the Knicks will at least have a modicum of shooting. Fellow rookie Immanuel Quickley brings some off the bench as well. Spacing is easy enough to find even at this stage of free agency when teams are willing to compromise for it. Defensive sacrifices aren't as painful to teams without immediate ambitions.

Rose's regime appears to be the first in recent Knicks history without them, or at least the will to surrender such fantasies when faced with reality. That will is going to be tested. Slow starts tend to produce calls for fast action. Westbrook and Oladipo rumors aren't going anywhere so long as their situations remain unsettled. Buckle up if any of Rose's former CAA clients become available. There's a long way to go here.

But for the first time in two decades, the Knicks seem at least open to acknowledging that. They aren't acting desperately. They aren't skipping steps. They're acting like any other rebuilding team. They're giving their young players opportunities instead of trying to cherry-pick mercenaries from other teams. They're spending their cap space on assets instead of veterans (three second-round picks just for facilitating an Ed Davis trade!)

They've put off this regime's first great mistake. That mistake will come eventually. Even Pat Riley and Masai Ujiri have misses. But Knicks history is unkind to executives who make those mistakes early. Rose hasn't, and even if most of the hard work still remains, it's a barrier most of his predecessors failed to clear. It's the first step toward eventually turning the Knicks into a real winner.

Great read!!! Thanks for posting!

Was a very good article. Surprised that Perry's role in avoiding the pitfalls of past GMs, was obscured. Being smart with cap space, not getting taken in deals, started with Perry.

Should get some credit.

Good point...Right before the trade deadline, there were rumors that represented two separate ideals. On one hand, we were willing to trade draft picks and absorb bloated contracts of D'Angelo Russell and other rumored players. These were the type of short sighted moves Perry and Mills said we were done making. On the other hand, we were going to stick to plan and be smart about the cap by trading one or two of our assets (Morris and others that were on one year deals) to collect draft picks. In the end, Mills was fired, Perry remained and the path we took was to collect assets as opposed to trading them away. It's clear that Mills was the one the deviated from the plan while Perry stood firm. This is why Perry is still standing. He does deserve credit for that. Hopefully, we can continue to be smart...

We have talked many times “panic” and the one constant is Dolan. I don’t prescribe our issues have been the GM’s except for Isiah who was in Dolans head even after he left.
Dolan also sees the team thru “revenue” and while melo might have had issues on the court he was popular and the face of the franchise. I think Phil thought he could at least get us to the playoffs and build out a Triangle culture. Not a bad idea, just could not execute it for reasons well discussed.
It does seem Mills tried to placate Dolan and hold his job. I get that. I give Perry passes because he was not driving the ship then nor does he now. THis franchise is driven by Leon Rose. Does Perry stay. Beyond his contract. I have no idea. Is he measured for how well the development for who remains (if they remain)? Perhaps to some degree. Perry did not hire Fizdales and company coaching and I don’t know how much he is responsible for this current crew.
In the end I don’t really care who does what. Its on the court that matters and moves off it.
Blame and Fault are over rated. At the end of the day someone is accountable so its natural to want heads to roll.
We don’t know the measure for Perry via his job description from Leon. Perry was kept thinking the draft was in June. It was November. We had plenty of time to replace him. Perry is the only hold over from the past regime. Things are different now. MIlls is gone. Dolan invested a lot of money with this new group.
Things are thus far reasonable. Leon is trying to low ball his starphuchs which is ok. Other than that we drafted well and we are giving our yoot one more shot. Thats not “Perry vs. Mills”, thats just logic.

Mills signed THJ.No contracts like that given out after Perry got the job. Coincidence?

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Westbrook hung 27 and seven last season.
He is not coming WITH PICKS as a dump. I can’t tell you his value nor do I think he is right for this team but I can’t see at age 31 this guy being treaded like he is cooked.

Ditto. I think that’s a pipe-dream for people that want him on the Knicks. He hasn’t really shown signs of physically slowing down either, even though that’s bound to happen.

The price for him is going to be really high just as it was high when the Rockets got him. The Rockets have every right to put a high price tag on him. If Westy doesn’t like it then too bad. He is under contract. The league needs to take control here a little anyway even though I tend to side with the players.

And the Knicks should have never had an eye on him in the first place. He never made sense and neither does Harden.

Then who makes sense, Because young stars like (booker, Mitchell, Murry, Kat, Jackson) are not coming here via trade or FA.

The idea of putting a veteran ALL star is to help build the confidence of your youth, the culture, winning habits.

As long as you think the right way to develop is to get guys around the same age, we are going to be a very bad team, because thats not the way stars are born.

A loss to most players under 24 is another day in the clubs after the loss, a loss to a vet result in the gym/film room after the loss..

Leon Rose-led Knicks will be rewarded for rare patience in rebuilding effort
The Knicks are finally acting like a typical rebuilding team

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/leon-rose-led-knicks-will-be-rewarded-for-rare-patience-in-rebuilding-effort/

By Sam Quinn
Dec 1, 2020 at 9:48 am ET

New Knicks regimes can usually be judged by how quickly it takes them to make a bad decision. Over the past two decades and change, almost every new front office has tried to put its stamp on the team immediately to disastrous results. Scott Layden gave Latrell Sprewell a five-year max contract extension less than three months into his tenure. Isiah Thomas only needed two weeks to trade away his team's future for Stephon Marbury. Steve Mills broke both of their records by torpedoing his tenure before it even began. He signed Tim Hardaway Jr. to a four-year, $72 million deal while David Griffin was en route to New York to interview for the team's presidency, effectively scaring him off of the job and opening the door for Mills to claim it.

Other regimes have started more promisingly but succumbed to the same temptations. Phil Jackson re-signed Carmelo Anthony at his peak and drafted Kristaps Porzingis before showing his true colors by burning his cap space on Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee and Derrick Rose. Donnie Walsh spent two years meticulously carving out cap space, and the result was the best stretch of Knicks basketball this century: three consecutive playoff berths and a series win. But he resigned, and replacement, Glen Grunwald, immediately wasted his amnesty clause on Chauncey Billups to sign Tyson Chandler when it could have later been used to create the flexibility to add Chris Paul.

The common thread is impatience. Things go wrong in New York when the Knicks hit fast forward, seeking out or retaining big-name players when doing so didn't make sense in the organization's present context. For months, the Leon Rose administration appeared destined to make the same mistakes. The Knicks were linked to Chris Paul ... and Russell Westbrook ... and Victor Oladipo ... and Gordon Hayward. How close they came to connecting on such an ill-advised home run swing is unknowable, but also irrelevant. Even if they were interested, they set a price and stuck to it. Restraint is a step toward patience.

And patience is what the Knicks needed this offseason. That has nothing to do with their previous foibles. In fact, it's the opposite. The Knicks, as presently constructed, are a rebuilding team. The sensible approach to having a rebuilding Knicks team is to act like a rebuilding team instead of acting like the Knicks. The former somewhat consistently yields winning basketball. The latter inevitably leads to disaster.

There was no scenario in which the addition of a Hayward or a Westbrook would have launched the Knicks into short-term championship contention. Given Atlanta's improvements, it probably wouldn't have gotten them into the Eastern Conference's top eight either. But it would have clogged their cap sheet, deprived their youngsters of badly needed developmental touches and artificially created unwarranted expectations. A team led by Westbrook, RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson shouldn't make the playoffs, but good luck convincing James Dolan of that.

They are the sort of moves a team makes when it views merely reaching the postseason as a worthwhile goal. Eventually it might become one, but as a stepping stone rather than a destination. The ultimate objective in New York will always be championships, and a playoff pursuit would have proven counterproductive on that front with the loaded 2021 NBA Draft looming. A star in his 30s might be ill-advised for this roster, but a teenaged one is a different story. Atlanta, Charlotte and Detroit all made big win-now splashes. The path to the bottom, save a surprisingly inactive Cleveland team, is unobstructed. The reward for patience is another top young talent.

But the 2020-21 season was all about developing the incumbents. Barrett and Robinson were miscast on a power forward-centric roster last season. This year's roster hasn't exactly been upgraded. Free-agent additions Nerlens Noel and Austin Rivers don't exactly improve New York's spacing. Ball-hog extraordinaire Julius Randle remains in place. The Knicks probably could have made better immediate use of their cap space. But they didn't exactly make life harder on Barrett and Robinson either. Robinson should become a full-time starter for the first time in his career. If Obi Toppin joins him in the frontcourt, the Knicks will at least have a modicum of shooting. Fellow rookie Immanuel Quickley brings some off the bench as well. Spacing is easy enough to find even at this stage of free agency when teams are willing to compromise for it. Defensive sacrifices aren't as painful to teams without immediate ambitions.

Rose's regime appears to be the first in recent Knicks history without them, or at least the will to surrender such fantasies when faced with reality. That will is going to be tested. Slow starts tend to produce calls for fast action. Westbrook and Oladipo rumors aren't going anywhere so long as their situations remain unsettled. Buckle up if any of Rose's former CAA clients become available. There's a long way to go here.

But for the first time in two decades, the Knicks seem at least open to acknowledging that. They aren't acting desperately. They aren't skipping steps. They're acting like any other rebuilding team. They're giving their young players opportunities instead of trying to cherry-pick mercenaries from other teams. They're spending their cap space on assets instead of veterans (three second-round picks just for facilitating an Ed Davis trade!)

They've put off this regime's first great mistake. That mistake will come eventually. Even Pat Riley and Masai Ujiri have misses. But Knicks history is unkind to executives who make those mistakes early. Rose hasn't, and even if most of the hard work still remains, it's a barrier most of his predecessors failed to clear. It's the first step toward eventually turning the Knicks into a real winner.

Great read!!! Thanks for posting!

Was a very good article. Surprised that Perry's role in avoiding the pitfalls of past GMs, was obscured. Being smart with cap space, not getting taken in deals, started with Perry.

Should get some credit.

Good point...Right before the trade deadline, there were rumors that represented two separate ideals. On one hand, we were willing to trade draft picks and absorb bloated contracts of D'Angelo Russell and other rumored players. These were the type of short sighted moves Perry and Mills said we were done making. On the other hand, we were going to stick to plan and be smart about the cap by trading one or two of our assets (Morris and others that were on one year deals) to collect draft picks. In the end, Mills was fired, Perry remained and the path we took was to collect assets as opposed to trading them away. It's clear that Mills was the one the deviated from the plan while Perry stood firm. This is why Perry is still standing. He does deserve credit for that. Hopefully, we can continue to be smart...

We have talked many times “panic” and the one constant is Dolan. I don’t prescribe our issues have been the GM’s except for Isiah who was in Dolans head even after he left.
Dolan also sees the team thru “revenue” and while melo might have had issues on the court he was popular and the face of the franchise. I think Phil thought he could at least get us to the playoffs and build out a Triangle culture. Not a bad idea, just could not execute it for reasons well discussed.
It does seem Mills tried to placate Dolan and hold his job. I get that. I give Perry passes because he was not driving the ship then nor does he now. THis franchise is driven by Leon Rose. Does Perry stay. Beyond his contract. I have no idea. Is he measured for how well the development for who remains (if they remain)? Perhaps to some degree. Perry did not hire Fizdales and company coaching and I don’t know how much he is responsible for this current crew.
In the end I don’t really care who does what. Its on the court that matters and moves off it.
Blame and Fault are over rated. At the end of the day someone is accountable so its natural to want heads to roll.
We don’t know the measure for Perry via his job description from Leon. Perry was kept thinking the draft was in June. It was November. We had plenty of time to replace him. Perry is the only hold over from the past regime. Things are different now. MIlls is gone. Dolan invested a lot of money with this new group.
Things are thus far reasonable. Leon is trying to low ball his starphuchs which is ok. Other than that we drafted well and we are giving our yoot one more shot. Thats not “Perry vs. Mills”, thats just logic.

Mills signed THJ.No contracts like that given out after Perry got the job. Coincidence?

Mills handed out this contract as David Griffin was in route to interview for this job. Talk about sabotage. That, along with Mills and (Dolans) ego and inability to relinquish power to Griffin caused him to decline the job.

Jmpasq wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Westbrook hung 27 and seven last season.
He is not coming WITH PICKS as a dump. I can’t tell you his value nor do I think he is right for this team but I can’t see at age 31 this guy being treaded like he is cooked.

Ditto. I think that’s a pipe-dream for people that want him on the Knicks. He hasn’t really shown signs of physically slowing down either, even though that’s bound to happen.

The price for him is going to be really high just as it was high when the Rockets got him. The Rockets have every right to put a high price tag on him. If Westy doesn’t like it then too bad. He is under contract. The league needs to take control here a little anyway even though I tend to side with the players.

And the Knicks should have never had an eye on him in the first place. He never made sense and neither does Harden.

Then who makes sense, Because young stars like (booker, Mitchell, Murry, Kat, Jackson) are not coming here via trade or FA.

The idea of putting a veteran ALL star is to help build the confidence of your youth, the culture, winning habits.

As long as you think the right way to develop is to get guys around the same age, we are going to be a very bad team, because thats not the way stars are born.

A loss to most players under 24 is another day in the clubs after the loss, a loss to a vet result in the gym/film room after the loss..

Leon Rose-led Knicks will be rewarded for rare patience in rebuilding effort
The Knicks are finally acting like a typical rebuilding team

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/leon-rose-led-knicks-will-be-rewarded-for-rare-patience-in-rebuilding-effort/

By Sam Quinn
Dec 1, 2020 at 9:48 am ET

New Knicks regimes can usually be judged by how quickly it takes them to make a bad decision. Over the past two decades and change, almost every new front office has tried to put its stamp on the team immediately to disastrous results. Scott Layden gave Latrell Sprewell a five-year max contract extension less than three months into his tenure. Isiah Thomas only needed two weeks to trade away his team's future for Stephon Marbury. Steve Mills broke both of their records by torpedoing his tenure before it even began. He signed Tim Hardaway Jr. to a four-year, $72 million deal while David Griffin was en route to New York to interview for the team's presidency, effectively scaring him off of the job and opening the door for Mills to claim it.

Other regimes have started more promisingly but succumbed to the same temptations. Phil Jackson re-signed Carmelo Anthony at his peak and drafted Kristaps Porzingis before showing his true colors by burning his cap space on Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee and Derrick Rose. Donnie Walsh spent two years meticulously carving out cap space, and the result was the best stretch of Knicks basketball this century: three consecutive playoff berths and a series win. But he resigned, and replacement, Glen Grunwald, immediately wasted his amnesty clause on Chauncey Billups to sign Tyson Chandler when it could have later been used to create the flexibility to add Chris Paul.

The common thread is impatience. Things go wrong in New York when the Knicks hit fast forward, seeking out or retaining big-name players when doing so didn't make sense in the organization's present context. For months, the Leon Rose administration appeared destined to make the same mistakes. The Knicks were linked to Chris Paul ... and Russell Westbrook ... and Victor Oladipo ... and Gordon Hayward. How close they came to connecting on such an ill-advised home run swing is unknowable, but also irrelevant. Even if they were interested, they set a price and stuck to it. Restraint is a step toward patience.

And patience is what the Knicks needed this offseason. That has nothing to do with their previous foibles. In fact, it's the opposite. The Knicks, as presently constructed, are a rebuilding team. The sensible approach to having a rebuilding Knicks team is to act like a rebuilding team instead of acting like the Knicks. The former somewhat consistently yields winning basketball. The latter inevitably leads to disaster.

There was no scenario in which the addition of a Hayward or a Westbrook would have launched the Knicks into short-term championship contention. Given Atlanta's improvements, it probably wouldn't have gotten them into the Eastern Conference's top eight either. But it would have clogged their cap sheet, deprived their youngsters of badly needed developmental touches and artificially created unwarranted expectations. A team led by Westbrook, RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson shouldn't make the playoffs, but good luck convincing James Dolan of that.

They are the sort of moves a team makes when it views merely reaching the postseason as a worthwhile goal. Eventually it might become one, but as a stepping stone rather than a destination. The ultimate objective in New York will always be championships, and a playoff pursuit would have proven counterproductive on that front with the loaded 2021 NBA Draft looming. A star in his 30s might be ill-advised for this roster, but a teenaged one is a different story. Atlanta, Charlotte and Detroit all made big win-now splashes. The path to the bottom, save a surprisingly inactive Cleveland team, is unobstructed. The reward for patience is another top young talent.

But the 2020-21 season was all about developing the incumbents. Barrett and Robinson were miscast on a power forward-centric roster last season. This year's roster hasn't exactly been upgraded. Free-agent additions Nerlens Noel and Austin Rivers don't exactly improve New York's spacing. Ball-hog extraordinaire Julius Randle remains in place. The Knicks probably could have made better immediate use of their cap space. But they didn't exactly make life harder on Barrett and Robinson either. Robinson should become a full-time starter for the first time in his career. If Obi Toppin joins him in the frontcourt, the Knicks will at least have a modicum of shooting. Fellow rookie Immanuel Quickley brings some off the bench as well. Spacing is easy enough to find even at this stage of free agency when teams are willing to compromise for it. Defensive sacrifices aren't as painful to teams without immediate ambitions.

Rose's regime appears to be the first in recent Knicks history without them, or at least the will to surrender such fantasies when faced with reality. That will is going to be tested. Slow starts tend to produce calls for fast action. Westbrook and Oladipo rumors aren't going anywhere so long as their situations remain unsettled. Buckle up if any of Rose's former CAA clients become available. There's a long way to go here.

But for the first time in two decades, the Knicks seem at least open to acknowledging that. They aren't acting desperately. They aren't skipping steps. They're acting like any other rebuilding team. They're giving their young players opportunities instead of trying to cherry-pick mercenaries from other teams. They're spending their cap space on assets instead of veterans (three second-round picks just for facilitating an Ed Davis trade!)

They've put off this regime's first great mistake. That mistake will come eventually. Even Pat Riley and Masai Ujiri have misses. But Knicks history is unkind to executives who make those mistakes early. Rose hasn't, and even if most of the hard work still remains, it's a barrier most of his predecessors failed to clear. It's the first step toward eventually turning the Knicks into a real winner.

Great read!!! Thanks for posting!

Was a very good article. Surprised that Perry's role in avoiding the pitfalls of past GMs, was obscured. Being smart with cap space, not getting taken in deals, started with Perry.

Should get some credit.

Good point...Right before the trade deadline, there were rumors that represented two separate ideals. On one hand, we were willing to trade draft picks and absorb bloated contracts of D'Angelo Russell and other rumored players. These were the type of short sighted moves Perry and Mills said we were done making. On the other hand, we were going to stick to plan and be smart about the cap by trading one or two of our assets (Morris and others that were on one year deals) to collect draft picks. In the end, Mills was fired, Perry remained and the path we took was to collect assets as opposed to trading them away. It's clear that Mills was the one the deviated from the plan while Perry stood firm. This is why Perry is still standing. He does deserve credit for that. Hopefully, we can continue to be smart...

We have talked many times “panic” and the one constant is Dolan. I don’t prescribe our issues have been the GM’s except for Isiah who was in Dolans head even after he left.
Dolan also sees the team thru “revenue” and while melo might have had issues on the court he was popular and the face of the franchise. I think Phil thought he could at least get us to the playoffs and build out a Triangle culture. Not a bad idea, just could not execute it for reasons well discussed.
It does seem Mills tried to placate Dolan and hold his job. I get that. I give Perry passes because he was not driving the ship then nor does he now. THis franchise is driven by Leon Rose. Does Perry stay. Beyond his contract. I have no idea. Is he measured for how well the development for who remains (if they remain)? Perhaps to some degree. Perry did not hire Fizdales and company coaching and I don’t know how much he is responsible for this current crew.
In the end I don’t really care who does what. Its on the court that matters and moves off it.
Blame and Fault are over rated. At the end of the day someone is accountable so its natural to want heads to roll.
We don’t know the measure for Perry via his job description from Leon. Perry was kept thinking the draft was in June. It was November. We had plenty of time to replace him. Perry is the only hold over from the past regime. Things are different now. MIlls is gone. Dolan invested a lot of money with this new group.
Things are thus far reasonable. Leon is trying to low ball his starphuchs which is ok. Other than that we drafted well and we are giving our yoot one more shot. Thats not “Perry vs. Mills”, thats just logic.

Mills signed THJ.No contracts like that given out after Perry got the job. Coincidence?

They have the worst roster in the league. Not only that we have done a poor job of drafting and developing talent. Not signing players isn't really the hallmark of a skilled GM. I'm still trying to figure out why he got the job in the first place.

Perry came in as Melo was on his way out. He had a near max deal, an NTC, and a trade kicker. The injuries were piling on as well. Perry also got KP as he was on his way out. He was in the middle of rehabbing from major surgery. Had recently been in a brawl. Faced what turned out to be false rape allegations. KP wanted out, Melo wanted out, before Perry got the job.

Perry also had Noah's contract on the books as well. THJ with his expensive 4 year deal. Timmy played hard, but was missing a lot of games. There was also Lee's contract, at his age.

It never ceases to amaze me, that with these FACTS. Some of you still believe Perry should have turned the Knicks into an instant playoff team in 2 years. That Perry should have received a treasure chest of picks and players, above what he got for two frequently injured stars, and a starter who was missing big parts of the season.

On top of that, Perry was supposed to overcome 20 years of mismanagement, and instantly make the Knicks, one of the most desireable destinations in the league. Should have asked Perry to crap ice cream while you're at it.

Fizdale was one of the most in demand coaches in the league at the time. Didnt work out.

In 2 years with Perry as GM, we have more cap space, more picks, than we've ever had. In 2 seasons.
But thats not enough for some of you. The job should have been finished. FAs should have been pounding on the door of Perry's office, begging to be a Knick.

Perry didnt give out any long term deals, cap killers, quick fixes with long term deals. He did what he should have done. 2 years wasnt fast enough for some of you. Ridiculous