smackeddog wrote:I’ll never understand why people get more offended at people protesting barbaric actions than the barbaric actions themselves. VanVleet has my full support whatever he decides to do.

Fine, do like VanVleet and some of his teammates suggest.

Don't go to work and do your job because you are so offended. See how far that gets you. Stop paying your bills. Because you are so offended. See a traffic light? Why bother stopping. Because you are so offended. See what happens to your life.

I'm not offended at VanVleet's convictions and beliefs. I just think he's a ****ing idiot. And to be fair, some of his teammates as well. And to be further fair, these guys are young. But young isn't an excuse for stupid.

Even if VanVleet and Powell could convince the top 30 NBA players to sit out ( which would actually be the smartest path to this stupid plan), that would change pretty much nothing. The NBA, even with all it's influence and all the shoes brands and the networks can't magically bring a dead guy back to life. They can't magically convict and punish a bunch of cops immediately. VanVleet and Norman are idiots because they have no actual objective. No practical goal in mind. They have no linkage to the person in question. This isn't a current or former Raptor. Not a coach. Not in the NBA system. Not even a guy working in one of the arenas. What would work is if they say, we won't play games until X happens and X is something that can be achieved and the threat actually has the teeth to enforce compliance.

Not playing a game has revenue implications. Not just for rich players or billionaire owners. It trickles down to regular people. People who needs jobs and need money to feed their kids. The bubble helped some people with jobs in the area but there are tons of people in other cities who relied on NBA games for work or for their businesses around the arena that are taking hits now. Just regular people. I don't see how protesting the death of a guy you don't know, whom you can't bring back to life, for a goal that has never been stated, which one doesn't exist and couldn't be enforced though it punishes a lot of regular working stiffs, helps anyone. I would consider doing **** to further punish just some honest working people to be pretty ****ing barbaric.

Not to mention this is ****ing mutiny. There is the integrity of being a professional and the commitments you made to your team.

"I'm so offended I can't go to work"

You want to support a guy who no one would listen to if he didn't win the genetic lottery to be able to run fast and be tall and jump high and jam a piece of rubber into a metal hoop who advocates behavior that the best way to honor the dead is to punish those still in need and those still living.

If VanVleet is too dumb to understand mutiny, leverage and how to actually extort other people, I have no faith he can manage the NY bread and circus routine and be a leader on this team. I could give a **** less why he's mad or which ways his views lean. Not to mention in the modern age, there are a MILLION different ways he and some of his teammates could try to effect change in the social issues they find important without resorting to ****ing mutiny.

The Knicks need guys who are obsessive about winning games. So locked in on winning that they ignore everything else. Guys who want to desperately win aren't spending tons of time on **** that has nothing to do with winning. Do you want the Knicks to sign VanVleet so he can show up, making big dollars, then proceed to blast the media about every social issue that offends him. Do you want to sign a guy to big dollars who is this dumb to jeopardize his own NBA future by talking mutiny?

What if he was a Knick and said, I'm just so ****ing offended today, I'm not going to play tonight. How would you feel then?

Someone put too much cream in my coffee. Now it's not black enough for me! I need to not play the next three games! I know the Knicks gave me millions of dollars a year but my feelings are hurt and **** the fans, **** my teammates, **** the people who work around the league who need these paychecks, **** my integrity since I signed a contract and chose to pursue an NBA career, **** all my former coaches who taught me to be a professional, **** my family since I'm going to get fined and suspended and that will impact them in one way or another, **** everyone because my coffee isn't black enough today!

Fred, what can we do to help you? What specifically do you want to happen so this mutiny doesn't happen?

I don't know! Stop pressuring me! Don't you give a **** about what's going on? Aren't we going to do something about this?

Fred, couldn't you just get a different cup of coffee?

I paid Jimmy Butler 20 dollars for this brew, are you out of your ****ing mind?

https://streamable.com/gmaxgg

Fred VanVleet Scouting Report 2020 - Type of player who sits on the TV and watches the couch. Very mutinous. Maybe he's a pirate?

TheGame wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

TheGame wrote:Van Fleet is not coming here. The Raptors are going to pay him and he loves it there. The only way he leaves is if Raptors don’t offer max but do we really want to be stuck paying Van Fleet $29 million a year for the next four years? I like him if we could get him for $18-$20 mil but he is going to command more. I don’t want to tie up our cap on a player that is really only solid rather than an allstar.

Who's paying that much for FVV..

I don't think Fred will get that, but...we are going to need to flex with an extreme overpay to even get him to take us into consideration.

Brogdon is making $20 mil a year. The Raptors surely will be willing to pay Van Fleet $22-$23 mil, so if we are going to outbid, then you are looking to the $25-$27 mil range. Even if we can get him for less than the max, it still is a lot of salary for a guy who is not an allstar. I like him, but I like him for around $20-$21 mil per year.

smackeddog wrote:Signing Fred and drafting someone like Vassell at least gives you a functional roster to add to over the years (especially if you can get rid of Randle and sign someone like Jerami Grant)

PG- VanVleet / Frank
SG- RJ / Dotson
SF- Vassell / Bullock/ Iggy
PF- Grant / Knox
C- Mitch / Taj

I mean at least you have some spacing and 3 pt shooting to help RJ and Mitch. You have good defenders at every position and off the bench. You have an identity that meshes with Thibs- tough, smart players who play hard. It's nothing earth shattering, but it's different to what we've been doing the last decade, and you can add to it over the coming seasons via the draft.

However Raptors won't let him walk, even if they want cap space in 2021, they'll just sign him to whatever then trade him next offseason.

If anyone is watching playoffs. If you don’t have 2-3 guys who are capable of 25 points— you can hardly compete. Yiu have to get atleast 115 to compete to win. If 115 does not compute— team isn’t there.

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Signing Fred and drafting someone like Vassell at least gives you a functional roster to add to over the years (especially if you can get rid of Randle and sign someone like Jerami Grant)

PG- VanVleet / Frank
SG- RJ / Dotson
SF- Vassell / Bullock/ Iggy
PF- Grant / Knox
C- Mitch / Taj

I mean at least you have some spacing and 3 pt shooting to help RJ and Mitch. You have good defenders at every position and off the bench. You have an identity that meshes with Thibs- tough, smart players who play hard. It's nothing earth shattering, but it's different to what we've been doing the last decade, and you can add to it over the coming seasons via the draft.

However Raptors won't let him walk, even if they want cap space in 2021, they'll just sign him to whatever then trade him next offseason.

If anyone is watching playoffs. If you don’t have 2-3 guys who are capable of 25 points— you can hardly compete. Yiu have to get atleast 115 to compete to win. If 115 does not compute— team isn’t there.

If you have Barrett, VanVleet and Randle than you should have 3 guys who can score 20 points each per game. Offense shouldn’t be an issue. Mitch, Frank, and Vassell igniting the defense. Randle will eventually get replaced by a more fitting player who can score.

TripleThreat wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I’ll never understand why people get more offended at people protesting barbaric actions than the barbaric actions themselves. VanVleet has my full support whatever he decides to do.

Fine, do like VanVleet and some of his teammates suggest.

Don't go to work and do your job because you are so offended. See how far that gets you. Stop paying your bills. Because you are so offended. See a traffic light? Why bother stopping. Because you are so offended. See what happens to your life.

I'm not offended at VanVleet's convictions and beliefs. I just think he's a ****ing idiot. And to be fair, some of his teammates as well. And to be further fair, these guys are young. But young isn't an excuse for stupid.

Even if VanVleet and Powell could convince the top 30 NBA players to sit out ( which would actually be the smartest path to this stupid plan), that would change pretty much nothing. The NBA, even with all it's influence and all the shoes brands and the networks can't magically bring a dead guy back to life. They can't magically convict and punish a bunch of cops immediately. VanVleet and Norman are idiots because they have no actual objective. No practical goal in mind. They have no linkage to the person in question. This isn't a current or former Raptor. Not a coach. Not in the NBA system. Not even a guy working in one of the arenas. What would work is if they say, we won't play games until X happens and X is something that can be achieved and the threat actually has the teeth to enforce compliance.

Not playing a game has revenue implications. Not just for rich players or billionaire owners. It trickles down to regular people. People who needs jobs and need money to feed their kids. The bubble helped some people with jobs in the area but there are tons of people in other cities who relied on NBA games for work or for their businesses around the arena that are taking hits now. Just regular people. I don't see how protesting the death of a guy you don't know, whom you can't bring back to life, for a goal that has never been stated, which one doesn't exist and couldn't be enforced though it punishes a lot of regular working stiffs, helps anyone. I would consider doing **** to further punish just some honest working people to be pretty ****ing barbaric.

Not to mention this is ****ing mutiny. There is the integrity of being a professional and the commitments you made to your team.

"I'm so offended I can't go to work"

You want to support a guy who no one would listen to if he didn't win the genetic lottery to be able to run fast and be tall and jump high and jam a piece of rubber into a metal hoop who advocates behavior that the best way to honor the dead is to punish those still in need and those still living.

If VanVleet is too dumb to understand mutiny, leverage and how to actually extort other people, I have no faith he can manage the NY bread and circus routine and be a leader on this team. I could give a **** less why he's mad or which ways his views lean. Not to mention in the modern age, there are a MILLION different ways he and some of his teammates could try to effect change in the social issues they find important without resorting to ****ing mutiny.

The Knicks need guys who are obsessive about winning games. So locked in on winning that they ignore everything else. Guys who want to desperately win aren't spending tons of time on **** that has nothing to do with winning. Do you want the Knicks to sign VanVleet so he can show up, making big dollars, then proceed to blast the media about every social issue that offends him. Do you want to sign a guy to big dollars who is this dumb to jeopardize his own NBA future by talking mutiny?

What if he was a Knick and said, I'm just so ****ing offended today, I'm not going to play tonight. How would you feel then?

Someone put too much cream in my coffee. Now it's not black enough for me! I need to not play the next three games! I know the Knicks gave me millions of dollars a year but my feelings are hurt and **** the fans, **** my teammates, **** the people who work around the league who need these paychecks, **** my integrity since I signed a contract and chose to pursue an NBA career, **** all my former coaches who taught me to be a professional, **** my family since I'm going to get fined and suspended and that will impact them in one way or another, **** everyone because my coffee isn't black enough today!

Fred, what can we do to help you? What specifically do you want to happen so this mutiny doesn't happen?

I don't know! Stop pressuring me! Don't you give a **** about what's going on? Aren't we going to do something about this?

Fred, couldn't you just get a different cup of coffee?

I paid Jimmy Butler 20 dollars for this brew, are you out of your ****ing mind?

https://streamable.com/gmaxgg

Fred VanVleet Scouting Report 2020 - Type of player who sits on the TV and watches the couch. Very mutinous. Maybe he's a pirate?

I’ve always liked FVV’s game and for my approval to get him on the roster would come down to cost, basic economics. Talent is not enough on its own, players with the right attitude and who respect this franchise and fans are who we should target.