newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I like Randle as person, and his work ethic, but he's a bad fit for this team if we're building around RJ and Mitch. Doubt you can get anything of value back, so the options seem to be trade him for expiring deals, or trade him for a 2 year deal that matches his (means you lose out on the non-guaranteed salary cap space you would have got by keeping him, but means you might get a better player back or a player that fits better/frees up the PF spot for a shooter).

Any realistic suggestions?

I really struggle to think of a team that might take him for anything other than a switch of contracts (so if they had a 2 year deal, they might trade if for Randle because only $6mil of his second year is guaranteed. Straight up, here are the options:

Randles deal: $18.9mil 20-21, $19mil 21-22 (only $6mil guaranteed)

Using this:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/sort-average/free-agent-2021/limit-100/

1 year expirings that match Randle (excluding completely unrealistic ones):

Slim pickings! Cavs aren't an option (Thompson or Drummond if they drafted Wiseman) as they have Love (please don't trade Randle for Love!)

OKC: Steven Adams (expiring $25mil)- I only say this because there was that photo of their boardroom or something where they had Randle name on a whiteboard last season- likely that was related to a CP3 trade. Would save them $6mil and they seem to do these reclamation projects (see Schroeder and CP3)

Hornets: Batum $26mil (PJ Washington makes that very unlikely)

That's it! there are no other options (just look at the list on that site). Hornets have the most contracts to shift, but he doesn't fit there at all.

SO that takes us to the 2 year deals:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/sort-average/free-agent-2022/limit-100/

Hornets: Rozier deal (saves them money the 2year), but again, see above

And again that's it. (look at the list)

Teams with cap space- I just don't see which would be a good fit for him. Detroit is the one team desperate for anything but they have Griffin and will re-sign Wood.

Ack, who am I kidding- the only way we get rid of Randle is if we trade him for CP3, which is probably our most likely move now we won't land Ball (and likely can't get a PG in free agency). Unless I've missed something?

I think randke will shine under this coaching staff.

I would trade mitch to move up in the draft.

Hard to pull it off but you are worse than Mills as a decision maker

I actually was listening to KNICKFANTV and they were the ones who mention it, and I thought is was a solid idea for the right pieces.

I'm not saying just trade him and our pick to move up a few slots, but the center position has not had a real impact in these playoffs. Its all about small ball.

Look at the game dude, these playoffs are not the half court low scoring games of the past.

Toronto's Bench scored a 100 points yesterday

Problem with Randle is he isn't going to defend out the perimeter effectively, he isn't going to rim protect, and he had trouble this yr spacing the floor. Randle provides very little to defend against small ball or spacing. The Knicks in order to win have to think about how to effectively install "small ball" and spacing. While effectively building to DEFEND IT at the same time. MDA the pioneer of small ball had players like Marion, Biaw, Raja Bell, PJ Tucker, Covington, Mbah a Moute, Chandler, Capella. Randle is a quality 6th man with a solid PG to play off of and balanced 2nd unit that could provide him spacing and defense.

Mitch provides all the defense necessary. Odds are higher with Mitch developing a spot up 3 point shot than Randle ever developing the defensive ability that Mitch brings to the table. Its also easier to build a team with Mitch than Randle. You can find 3&D forwards to play next to Mitch giving the Gs nice spacing. Finding a 3&D center that can cover for Randle's weaknesses is waaay harder. But on a 2nd unit you could get away with having a center that can just shoot the 3 even if his defensive is average to offer spacing for Randle.

How in the world did you come to the conclusion that Mitch will develop a spot 3 when he has taken just 2 perimeter shots in 2 seasons. Thats like saying Mutumbo, whiteside, Dwight Howard and Gobert will develop a 3 point shot.

Now your sitting here basically saying Thibs (a defensive guru) and his coaching staff can't teach randle better defensive awareness, but they can easily teach Mitch how to drain 3's and mid range shots, something he's never done in his short career....cmon dude.

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I like Randle as person, and his work ethic, but he's a bad fit for this team if we're building around RJ and Mitch. Doubt you can get anything of value back, so the options seem to be trade him for expiring deals, or trade him for a 2 year deal that matches his (means you lose out on the non-guaranteed salary cap space you would have got by keeping him, but means you might get a better player back or a player that fits better/frees up the PF spot for a shooter).

Any realistic suggestions?

I really struggle to think of a team that might take him for anything other than a switch of contracts (so if they had a 2 year deal, they might trade if for Randle because only $6mil of his second year is guaranteed. Straight up, here are the options:

Randles deal: $18.9mil 20-21, $19mil 21-22 (only $6mil guaranteed)

Using this:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/sort-average/free-agent-2021/limit-100/

1 year expirings that match Randle (excluding completely unrealistic ones):

Slim pickings! Cavs aren't an option (Thompson or Drummond if they drafted Wiseman) as they have Love (please don't trade Randle for Love!)

OKC: Steven Adams (expiring $25mil)- I only say this because there was that photo of their boardroom or something where they had Randle name on a whiteboard last season- likely that was related to a CP3 trade. Would save them $6mil and they seem to do these reclamation projects (see Schroeder and CP3)

Hornets: Batum $26mil (PJ Washington makes that very unlikely)

That's it! there are no other options (just look at the list on that site). Hornets have the most contracts to shift, but he doesn't fit there at all.

SO that takes us to the 2 year deals:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/sort-average/free-agent-2022/limit-100/

Hornets: Rozier deal (saves them money the 2year), but again, see above

And again that's it. (look at the list)

Teams with cap space- I just don't see which would be a good fit for him. Detroit is the one team desperate for anything but they have Griffin and will re-sign Wood.

Ack, who am I kidding- the only way we get rid of Randle is if we trade him for CP3, which is probably our most likely move now we won't land Ball (and likely can't get a PG in free agency). Unless I've missed something?

I think randke will shine under this coaching staff.

I would trade mitch to move up in the draft.

Hard to pull it off but you are worse than Mills as a decision maker

I actually was listening to KNICKFANTV and they were the ones who mention it, and I thought is was a solid idea for the right pieces.

I'm not saying just trade him and our pick to move up a few slots, but the center position has not had a real impact in these playoffs. Its all about small ball.

Look at the game dude, these playoffs are not the half court low scoring games of the past.

Toronto's Bench scored a 100 points yesterday

Problem with Randle is he isn't going to defend out the perimeter effectively, he isn't going to rim protect, and he had trouble this yr spacing the floor. Randle provides very little to defend against small ball or spacing. The Knicks in order to win have to think about how to effectively install "small ball" and spacing. While effectively building to DEFEND IT at the same time. MDA the pioneer of small ball had players like Marion, Biaw, Raja Bell, PJ Tucker, Covington, Mbah a Moute, Chandler, Capella. Randle is a quality 6th man with a solid PG to play off of and balanced 2nd unit that could provide him spacing and defense.

Mitch provides all the defense necessary. Odds are higher with Mitch developing a spot up 3 point shot than Randle ever developing the defensive ability that Mitch brings to the table. Its also easier to build a team with Mitch than Randle. You can find 3&D forwards to play next to Mitch giving the Gs nice spacing. Finding a 3&D center that can cover for Randle's weaknesses is waaay harder. But on a 2nd unit you could get away with having a center that can just shoot the 3 even if his defensive is average to offer spacing for Randle.

How in the world did you come to the conclusion that Mitch will develop a spot 3 when he has taken just 2 perimeter shots in 2 seasons. Thats like saying Mutumbo, whiteside, Dwight Howard and Gobert will develop a 3 point shot.

Now your sitting here basically saying Thibs (a defensive guru) and his coaching staff can't teach randle better defensive awareness, but they can easily teach Mitch how to drain 3's and mid range shots, something he's never done in his short career....cmon dude.

Its not, because Mitch has played 1.5 seasons of NBA while the guys you named played many more yrs than that. Randle doesn't have the lateral quickness, timing, length or athleticism to guard perimeter or rim protect effectively. The tools necessary for Mitch to shoot a spot up 3 vs the tools needed for Randle to provide the defense that Mitch is capable of isn't comparable.

For Thibs to work a defensive scheme for Randle work in goes against the small ball principals your preaching. The defensive Scheme that Thibs would need to implement would be to slow down the pace and clog the paint from penetration. While having strong lengthy perimeter defenders smothering the shooters that the clogged paint forces teams to become ala Memphis with Gasol & Randolph. But your not going to get small ball Randle with increased pace and expect Thibs become a magician turning Randle into a plus defender while being on an island.

Its also took Julius Randle 3 yrs to attempt up to one 3 a game. 4 yrs if you count college, and would have been 5 yrs if he didn't get injured his rookie yr. Now he attempts 3-4. There are many other bigs that gradually increased their 3 point attempts over time.

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I like Randle as person, and his work ethic, but he's a bad fit for this team if we're building around RJ and Mitch. Doubt you can get anything of value back, so the options seem to be trade him for expiring deals, or trade him for a 2 year deal that matches his (means you lose out on the non-guaranteed salary cap space you would have got by keeping him, but means you might get a better player back or a player that fits better/frees up the PF spot for a shooter).

Any realistic suggestions?

I really struggle to think of a team that might take him for anything other than a switch of contracts (so if they had a 2 year deal, they might trade if for Randle because only $6mil of his second year is guaranteed. Straight up, here are the options:

Randles deal: $18.9mil 20-21, $19mil 21-22 (only $6mil guaranteed)

Using this:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/sort-average/free-agent-2021/limit-100/

1 year expirings that match Randle (excluding completely unrealistic ones):

Slim pickings! Cavs aren't an option (Thompson or Drummond if they drafted Wiseman) as they have Love (please don't trade Randle for Love!)

OKC: Steven Adams (expiring $25mil)- I only say this because there was that photo of their boardroom or something where they had Randle name on a whiteboard last season- likely that was related to a CP3 trade. Would save them $6mil and they seem to do these reclamation projects (see Schroeder and CP3)

Hornets: Batum $26mil (PJ Washington makes that very unlikely)

That's it! there are no other options (just look at the list on that site). Hornets have the most contracts to shift, but he doesn't fit there at all.

SO that takes us to the 2 year deals:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/sort-average/free-agent-2022/limit-100/

Hornets: Rozier deal (saves them money the 2year), but again, see above

And again that's it. (look at the list)

Teams with cap space- I just don't see which would be a good fit for him. Detroit is the one team desperate for anything but they have Griffin and will re-sign Wood.

Ack, who am I kidding- the only way we get rid of Randle is if we trade him for CP3, which is probably our most likely move now we won't land Ball (and likely can't get a PG in free agency). Unless I've missed something?

I think randke will shine under this coaching staff.

I would trade mitch to move up in the draft.

Hard to pull it off but you are worse than Mills as a decision maker

I actually was listening to KNICKFANTV and they were the ones who mention it, and I thought is was a solid idea for the right pieces.

I'm not saying just trade him and our pick to move up a few slots, but the center position has not had a real impact in these playoffs. Its all about small ball.

Look at the game dude, these playoffs are not the half court low scoring games of the past.

Toronto's Bench scored a 100 points yesterday

Problem with Randle is he isn't going to defend out the perimeter effectively, he isn't going to rim protect, and he had trouble this yr spacing the floor. Randle provides very little to defend against small ball or spacing. The Knicks in order to win have to think about how to effectively install "small ball" and spacing. While effectively building to DEFEND IT at the same time. MDA the pioneer of small ball had players like Marion, Biaw, Raja Bell, PJ Tucker, Covington, Mbah a Moute, Chandler, Capella. Randle is a quality 6th man with a solid PG to play off of and balanced 2nd unit that could provide him spacing and defense.

Mitch provides all the defense necessary. Odds are higher with Mitch developing a spot up 3 point shot than Randle ever developing the defensive ability that Mitch brings to the table. Its also easier to build a team with Mitch than Randle. You can find 3&D forwards to play next to Mitch giving the Gs nice spacing. Finding a 3&D center that can cover for Randle's weaknesses is waaay harder. But on a 2nd unit you could get away with having a center that can just shoot the 3 even if his defensive is average to offer spacing for Randle.

How in the world did you come to the conclusion that Mitch will develop a spot 3 when he has taken just 2 perimeter shots in 2 seasons. Thats like saying Mutumbo, whiteside, Dwight Howard and Gobert will develop a 3 point shot.

Now your sitting here basically saying Thibs (a defensive guru) and his coaching staff can't teach randle better defensive awareness, but they can easily teach Mitch how to drain 3's and mid range shots, something he's never done in his short career....cmon dude.

Its not, because Mitch has played 1.5 seasons of NBA while the guys you named played many more yrs than that. Randle doesn't have the lateral quickness, timing, length or athleticism to guard perimeter or rim protect effectively. The tools necessary for Mitch to shoot a spot up 3 vs the tools needed for Randle to provide the defense that Mitch is capable of isn't comparable.

For Thibs to work a defensive scheme for Randle work in goes against the small ball principals your preaching. The defensive Scheme that Thibs would need to implement would be to slow down the pace and clog the paint from penetration. While having strong lengthy perimeter defenders smothering the shooters that the clogged paint forces teams to become ala Memphis with Gasol & Randolph. But your not going to get small ball Randle with increased pace and expect Thibs become a magician turning Randle into a plus defender while being on an island.

Its also took Julius Randle 3 yrs to attempt up to one 3 a game. 4 yrs if you count college, and would have been 5 yrs if he didn't get injured his rookie yr. Now he attempts 3-4. There are many other bigs that gradually increased their 3 point attempts over time.

If you go back and look at the knicks cluster fck of spacing, you will see that Mitch trying to guard perimeter players ended up in foul woes, you will also see that when randle was on the floor and anybody guarding Knox, frank, peyton, mitch, RJ or DSJ was allowed to back off those guys to double and crowd randle into a turnover...that has been well documented.

Even if randle is not a great defender (like 80% of NBA players) he does enough good on the other end to over shadow his suspect defense.

We can go on and debate these facts, but I'm still of the belief that this regime will build an entire new team and will keep Randle and RJ, but if the can have an opportunity to trade for a star like booker, mitchell, KAT, simmons, Then both of them maybe gone as well.

You also keep forgetting that they hired Kenny payne, the guy who develop Randle into a high lottery pick

Randle isn’t good enough player to build around. If he became effective as a point/forward like Fizz tried. Where he efficiently shot the 3 and created for others then yes his offense would be worthy of building around. As it stands he is a guy who gets buckets on losing teams. Doesn’t provide enough spacing or defense to help out his teammates. He like you stated before would be more effective off the bench behind other superstars just like Kanter, and old Melo. But I’m not making trades to build around or moving players like Mitch to make freaking Julius Randle work. He isn’t enough of an impact player to be thinking that way.

We should be thinking of finding a nice 3&D forward to pair next to Mitch that can push Randle to the bench if where tryna win.