Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

houston20 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

houston20 wrote:Honestly david west is wrong about the knicks not hiring black coaches when knicks have hired more black coaches and black front office management position in the last 20 years then the whole nfl has. Lets look at facts the knicks have hired lot of black coaches 7 over last 20 years don cheaney, lenny wilkens, isiah thomas, herb williams, mike woodson, derrick fisher, and david fizdale. On the hire of black front office jobs the knicks have given black people are isiah thomas, steve mills, scott perry, craig robinson, walt perrimion, alan houston, and world wide wes. Former knick players working in the organization who are black larry johnson, john starks, john wallace, latrell sprewell, walt frazier off and on kurt thomas, allan houston, works sometimes with the organization marcus camby. David west and the media need to get there facts right especially espn because the knicks have hired more black people then any other organization in the nba or any other major sports league nfl, baseball, hockey, ect in last 20 years. Lets be fair nobody in the nba is screaming for isiah thomas, steve mills, david fizdale, or derrick fisher to get another nba job because there black.

Believe West was speaking of a league problem. The Knicks being the latest example. Guess you dont remember how Wilkins and Chaney were treated by the Knicks.

They were hired right cheaney and wilkins didn't have to take the job either. I understand there is lot crap deal with nyc because there expectation to be great its not for everybody. We can't say the knicks haven't been fair in the hiring black coaches give them interviews and jobs more then other sport in last 20 years. The nfl has problem hiring black coaches but we can say with the knicks they have hired lot of black coaches some didn't do well but were given a chance to coach. Why hasn't nba team or management screamed to get isiah thomas, steve mills, derrick fisher, or david fizdale another coaching job or front office job its because they sucked at there job nothing to do with race.

Its one thing to sing Thibs praises, its another to pretend like there isnt a reason Thibs is on his 3rd stop in 5 years. Not being able to trust his bench, is a big reason why.

I don't think that's fair because you can basically say that about every unemployed former head coach currently available. Jason Kidd would've been at his 3rd stop in 6 years.

There's a reason everybody is available. A perfect coach would already have a job. I think I would prefer going with a coach with a proven track record of winning and trust that he can adjust versus going with another young, relatively inexperienced coach that you hope is the next big thing. There's a reason nobody wants to touch Mark Jackson. Ty Lue is probably looked upon like Mike Brown, all of his success is tied to Lebron James. Some of the other younger African American candidates are completely unproven.

I think given our options, Thibs was probably the least risky direction we could go.

Not about being a perfect coach. Its about getting full control over the roster, and making the same mistakes. I want to hear that this stop will be different. Not a lot to ask.

Well, is it unfair to at least give the guy a press conference to explain his plan? Not that it really matters, Fizdale sounded pretty convincing during his press conference.

Hasnt been officially hired yet. Im saying what I want to hear at the first press conference.

Go New York go!

GustavBahler wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:With the Knicks hiring history making this a racial thing trivializes situations that truly need addressing. Secondly, it just wouldn't be the Knicks fan base without a goodly portion peeing their pants before the dude (an experienced winning coach) even coaches one game for us.

Go New York go!

LOL, my Knicks underoos are dry, thanks. Think its more of a case of some desperate fans soiling themselves over any coach with a winning record. Someone had baked beans!

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:With the Knicks hiring history making this a racial thing trivializes situations that truly need addressing. Secondly, it just wouldn't be the Knicks fan base without a goodly portion peeing their pants before the dude (an experienced winning coach) even coaches one game for us.

Go New York go!

LOL, my Knicks underoos are dry, thanks. Think its more of a case of some desperate fans soiling themselves over any coach with a winning record. Someone had baked beans!

Of everyone who coached at least 300 games, Thibs has the 16th highest winning percentage all-time. So it's not like he's just one game over .500.

You're right. Just some friendly trash talk. My point remains that we shouldnt get too wrapped up in past performance, especially if the best days were a couple of stops ago.

Tyrone Lue has a ring, and won a lot of games as coach, but there is a reason why those wins are a double edged sword, when it comes to his record. Lue had Goat(b) on his team, can that be replicated elsewhere? Nope.

One reason Thibs won all those regular season games was relying heavily on starters. Put his teams at a disadvantage in the playoffs. Do I want to see Thibs replicate his gameplan in NY? Nope.

I go back to Thibs's rep as an old school, tough as nails coach, with little give in him. If you want to see Thibs succeed, where he has fallen short in the past. You want to see him let the league know that he will be putting more of a focus on player's well being, when it comes to how players are used in his system. That he isnt stuck in another era. That Thibs is bringing some of what he's learned from his years of experience, and leaving what hasnt worked in the past.

Otherwise I see the front office having a hard time being able to make an attractive pitch to Elite FAs, beyond $$$.

I am very careful discussing racial topics because it usually just ends up with emotion getting in the way (that goes both ways). However David West is out and out wrong here, especially making such comments about a team that has gone about hiring so many minorities. The Knicks have had several times when the full front office was minorities (Pres. GM. Coach), they have repeatedly shown that color no bearing on who they hire.

I respect the message but saying it is racism just because the guy they happen to have hired is white is irresponsible and ignorant. And I love David West as a player. Someone said it before, it trivializes those instances where true racism and bigotry do rear it's ugly head. You can be against hiring Thibs on a professional level, but given that he was the most proven and most successful and had the most proven track record and probably was the most stable(based on experience) of the realistically available coaches, to push all that aside and verbalize, as David West did, that he was just hired because he was white is ignorant. Couldn't it have been the fact after all the horrible decisions they have made, the Knicks needed the most seemingly stable, most solid track record candidate with possibly the least chance to fail?

But just as a white person getting a job just because they are white is wrong, so is calling to hire any minority just because they are a minority is wrong also.

I was not familiar with alot of the out of town interviewees, so I have an open question to anyone: Did any candidate have any comparable past success/track record to Thibs?

joec32033 wrote:8 of the last 13 Knicks head coaches were black, 7 if you take into account Herb Williams was used twice.

I am very careful discussing racial topics because it usually just ends up with emotion getting in the way (that goes both ways). However David West is out and out wrong here, especially making such comments about a team that has gone about hiring so many minorities. The Knicks have had several times when the full front office was minorities (Pres. GM. Coach), they have repeatedly shown that color no bearing on who they hire.

I respect the message but saying it is racism just because the guy they happen to have hired is white is irresponsible and ignorant. And I love David West as a player. Someone said it before, it trivializes those instances where true racism and bigotry do rear it's ugly head. You can be against hiring Thibs on a professional level, but given that he was the most proven and most successful and had the most proven track record and probably was the most stable(based on experience) of the realistically available coaches, to push all that aside and verbalize, as David West did, that he was just hired because he was white is ignorant. Couldn't it have been the fact after all the horrible decisions they have made, the Knicks needed the most seemingly stable, most solid track record candidate with possibly the least chance to fail?

But just as a white person getting a job just because they are white is wrong, so is calling to hire any minority just because they are a minority is wrong also.

I was not familiar with alot of the out of town interviewees, so I have an open question to anyone: Did any candidate have any comparable past success/track record to Thibs?

Thibs wins, makes players better and makes teams better. The improvements when he takes over and slippage when he leaves cant be denied, it can only be spun... so I present you with this argument: "retread"

Imagine interviewing for a job you have demonstrated every desirable skill for an even have the track record to support those skills, yet you were passed over for someone with no experience but pretty ideas because you were a retread.

Joe I am with you. Thibs may or may not work out but he's an excellent coach who coaches to the strengths of his roster. Its a good hire, despite what the retread posters say

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:8 of the last 13 Knicks head coaches were black, 7 if you take into account Herb Williams was used twice.

I am very careful discussing racial topics because it usually just ends up with emotion getting in the way (that goes both ways). However David West is out and out wrong here, especially making such comments about a team that has gone about hiring so many minorities. The Knicks have had several times when the full front office was minorities (Pres. GM. Coach), they have repeatedly shown that color no bearing on who they hire.

I respect the message but saying it is racism just because the guy they happen to have hired is white is irresponsible and ignorant. And I love David West as a player. Someone said it before, it trivializes those instances where true racism and bigotry do rear it's ugly head. You can be against hiring Thibs on a professional level, but given that he was the most proven and most successful and had the most proven track record and probably was the most stable(based on experience) of the realistically available coaches, to push all that aside and verbalize, as David West did, that he was just hired because he was white is ignorant. Couldn't it have been the fact after all the horrible decisions they have made, the Knicks needed the most seemingly stable, most solid track record candidate with possibly the least chance to fail?

But just as a white person getting a job just because they are white is wrong, so is calling to hire any minority just because they are a minority is wrong also.

I was not familiar with alot of the out of town interviewees, so I have an open question to anyone: Did any candidate have any comparable past success/track record to Thibs?

yea well maybe you havent been paying attention thats not viewed as a positive here by the anti Thibs crowd which is basically 3 guys saying the same things over and over in every thread.

Thibs wins, makes players better and makes teams better. The improvements when he takes over and slippage when he leaves cant be denied, it can only be spun... so I present you with this argument: "retread"

Imagine interviewing for a job you have demonstrated every desirable skill for an even have the track record to support those skills, yet you were passed over for someone with no experience but pretty ideas because you were a retread.

Joe I am with you. Thibs may or may not work out but he's an excellent coach who coaches to the strengths of his roster. Its a good hire, despite what the retread posters say

The term retread is overused. To me a retread is a middling coach who may or may not win more than they lose. Who probably won't add any wins to your win column from the previous year, who is coaching a team that it really doesn't matter if they make the playoffs.

On NBA rosters this year, Alvin Gentry, Nate McMillian, Scott Brooks, Monty Williams, Duane Casey (although he was good a year or two in Toronto), Terry Stotts...those guys are "retreads" to me.

Welpee wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:8 of the last 13 Knicks head coaches were black, 7 if you take into account Herb Williams was used twice.

I am very careful discussing racial topics because it usually just ends up with emotion getting in the way (that goes both ways). However David West is out and out wrong here, especially making such comments about a team that has gone about hiring so many minorities. The Knicks have had several times when the full front office was minorities (Pres. GM. Coach), they have repeatedly shown that color no bearing on who they hire.

I respect the message but saying it is racism just because the guy they happen to have hired is white is irresponsible and ignorant. And I love David West as a player. Someone said it before, it trivializes those instances where true racism and bigotry do rear it's ugly head. You can be against hiring Thibs on a professional level, but given that he was the most proven and most successful and had the most proven track record and probably was the most stable(based on experience) of the realistically available coaches, to push all that aside and verbalize, as David West did, that he was just hired because he was white is ignorant. Couldn't it have been the fact after all the horrible decisions they have made, the Knicks needed the most seemingly stable, most solid track record candidate with possibly the least chance to fail?

But just as a white person getting a job just because they are white is wrong, so is calling to hire any minority just because they are a minority is wrong also.

I was not familiar with alot of the out of town interviewees, so I have an open question to anyone: Did any candidate have any comparable past success/track record to Thibs?

yea well maybe you havent been paying attention thats not viewed as a positive here by the anti Thibs crowd which is basically 3 guys saying the same things over and over in every thread.

Thibs wins, makes players better and makes teams better. The improvements when he takes over and slippage when he leaves cant be denied, it can only be spun... so I present you with this argument: "retread"

Imagine interviewing for a job you have demonstrated every desirable skill for an even have the track record to support those skills, yet you were passed over for someone with no experience but pretty ideas because you were a retread.

Joe I am with you. Thibs may or may not work out but he's an excellent coach who coaches to the strengths of his roster. Its a good hire, despite what the retread posters say

The term retread is overused. To me a retread is a middling coach who may or may not win more than they lose. Who probably won't add any wins to your win column from the previous year, who is coaching a team that it really doesn't matter if they make the playoffs.

On NBA rosters this year, Alvin Gentry, Nate McMillian, Scott Brooks, Monty Williams, Duane Casey (although he was good a year or two in Toronto), Terry Stotts...those guys are "retreads" to me.

Not sure I would consider Brooks and Williams retreads, they're only on their 2nd gigs. The rest, definitely, especially Gentry. Not sure why he has been given so many chances.

I feel both of them have been around forever. I know Monty had the tragedy with his wife, but Scott Brooks seems so Fred Hoiberg-esque

Nalod wrote:Retreads are often guys with good track records. They are proven entities.

Yep, D'Antoni would have fit the daft definition of a 'retread'- done very well with the Rockets (if CP3 hadn't got injured) and changed his style to accommodate Harden and Westbrook. According to people on this thread such a thing is IMPOSSIBLE!

joec32033 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

houston20 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:8 of the last 13 Knicks head coaches were black, 7 if you take into account Herb Williams was used twice.

I am very careful discussing racial topics because it usually just ends up with emotion getting in the way (that goes both ways). However David West is out and out wrong here, especially making such comments about a team that has gone about hiring so many minorities. The Knicks have had several times when the full front office was minorities (Pres. GM. Coach), they have repeatedly shown that color no bearing on who they hire.

I respect the message but saying it is racism just because the guy they happen to have hired is white is irresponsible and ignorant. And I love David West as a player. Someone said it before, it trivializes those instances where true racism and bigotry do rear it's ugly head. You can be against hiring Thibs on a professional level, but given that he was the most proven and most successful and had the most proven track record and probably was the most stable(based on experience) of the realistically available coaches, to push all that aside and verbalize, as David West did, that he was just hired because he was white is ignorant. Couldn't it have been the fact after all the horrible decisions they have made, the Knicks needed the most seemingly stable, most solid track record candidate with possibly the least chance to fail?

But just as a white person getting a job just because they are white is wrong, so is calling to hire any minority just because they are a minority is wrong also.

I was not familiar with alot of the out of town interviewees, so I have an open question to anyone: Did any candidate have any comparable past success/track record to Thibs?

yea well maybe you havent been paying attention thats not viewed as a positive here by the anti Thibs crowd which is basically 3 guys saying the same things over and over in every thread.

Thibs wins, makes players better and makes teams better. The improvements when he takes over and slippage when he leaves cant be denied, it can only be spun... so I present you with this argument: "retread"

Imagine interviewing for a job you have demonstrated every desirable skill for an even have the track record to support those skills, yet you were passed over for someone with no experience but pretty ideas because you were a retread.

Joe I am with you. Thibs may or may not work out but he's an excellent coach who coaches to the strengths of his roster. Its a good hire, despite what the retread posters say

I agree with you on your post knicks hiring minority coaches mostly black coaches over last 20 years has been more then any other team. My thing is with people like david west he needs get facts right the knicks have hired more black coaches in 20 year stretch then whole of the nfl, mlb, or nhl has done combined. You know how the nfl needs rooney rule to give black coaches intervies the knicks just hire them more often actually give them chance just in certain cases it hasn't worked out. Look how steve mills and isiah thomas stayed on the knicks for a long period time before getting fired and they got plenty of chances and years they shouldn't have gotten.

Don’t believe West was specifically talking about the Knicks, but in general. But I feel the NBA has been pretty good in terms of diversity in coaching. The baggage that Mark Jackson has been said to have wit him in GS is alarming. Thibs continually failing up is also too strong of a statement. He failed in Minny, but I wouldn’t say he failed in Chi.

With Thibs I do have concerns though. The talent on the Bulls and Wolves teams far exceed the talent on this Knicks team. And we have yet to see Thibs be asked to build up a team at this stage we are currently in. Also don’t like that he is 62 given the makeup of the team.

But he looks like he will be the coach. So like anyone else I will give him the chance to fail or succeed. If he does fail though then I will say it’s not a good look on Rose more than anyone else.

He specifically mentioned them.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/david-west-upset-knicks-reportedly-014245753.html
http://
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.talkbasket.net/96588-david-west-not-happy-with-the-knicks-hiring-tom-thibodeau%3famp

I can't cut figure out how to cut and paste the articles but he targets Tom and the Knicks and specifically intimates that they didn't want to hire a black coach.

His exact tweets.

Man how many times can u fail up as a black head coach....

I feel for the young players who's development will stagnate but they will be blamed for not working hard....

Young players run for the hills...

Literally destroys guys yet gets chance after chance....

How many opportunities has Mark Jackson gotten?

Ty Lue been given another shot at leading a team?

Patrick Ewing got a shot at NBA job yet or I missed that?

Non of these tweets speak on the Knicks specifically having any type of discriminatory hiring practices. Which even if he did elude to that. It wouldn't be backed by anything of substance. As Knicks hired back to back black head coaches in Mike Woodson & Derek Fisher. And hired a black head coach just 2 seasons ago in Fizdale. Between Woodson, Fisher, Hornacek, Fizdale & Thibs. 3 out of the last 5 head coaches who started out the season were black.