TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Pick 6-7 Aaron Nesmith Sg
Pick 17-25 Saddiq Bey F

I can see the reasoning for Nesmith and Bey, the likely problem will be that Nesmith will probably go in the 10-14 range and Bey will go in the 12-16 range. To move from 27 to Bey's likely range will be expensive. The Knicks could try to trade back from #6, but then there's the issue of a team with a good fit in that range that will want to trade up.

The Knicks could try to "split" the no#6 pick, fall back and fall back again and try to grab them both, but we are talking coordinating with at least 3-6 teams to make that happen. Teams are only going to want to move draft position if they can dump money as a side bonus to it, this means more teams will need to get involved.

Point being, the Knicks can get one of those guys, but odds are against getting them both. Question becomes who do you like better because odds on, NY won't be able to double dip here.

I really do like the picks. We need to invest in shooters. Nesmith could be the next buddy hield. I am big on Haliburton because he does a lot of the things that translate. Shooting, playmaking, and great positional size for defensive upside. As a late first round or early second round pick i'm targeting Bane, Pritchard, and Tyrell Terry; all guys who lack upside but can develop into great outside shooting rotation players/bench pieces.

2. Desmond Bane 6-6. 6-5 no shoes? SG/SF 41 percent from 3 on (high volume)Good team defender. Decent man to man iso defender. Pure shooter. high bb iq. Strong. Will not get bullied down low. Floor spacer for RJ and Mitch or backup SF/SG? (Joe Harris) you guys are trying to pay him 16 million this off season when we can get him now for 2 million. He can be joe Harris in 5 years.

3. Tyler bey 6-7 Great defender. Runs the floor. Lob threat. Almost 40 percent from 3 on low volume .Quick twitch muscle. Will he be able to be a 3D c/s player? (Send to g league to find some offense at first)

Salary cap: enough to get a van fleet or Christian wood this year or Galinari

Next year: (try to get big ticket free agent)

2021 draft - draft best player available or possibly our future(star)PG

Guys I wouldn’t mind them picking

Vassell
Toppin
Aaron Nesmith
Bey
Jaden Smith
Paul reed
Cassius Stanley
Josh green
Nwora
Isaiah joe
Jay scrub
Diakite

(Not a fan of any of the early round pOint guards)

Their flaws don’t mesh well with the (construct)of the team.

Can they improve their flaws and we miss out on a All star? Sure... but this draft is about role players to help us win a championship.

We need(pieces with defined roles) sure things.

we cannot afford to take a shot on a (bust) who were (supposed) to develop a skill set.

((( we have the cap space to get 2 all star players to include with our core pieces))

Notable players

Kira

Grant Riller

Haliburton

Killian Hayes

Tyrell Terry

Patrick Williams

Tyrese maxey

xblvdels3 wrote:1. Deni Avdija 6-8. no shoes. SF/PF as he ages and adds weight/muscle. Good team defender. 2nd option facilitator. Projecting 35-42 percent from 3. Plays on/off ball. High b-ball IQ. attacks basket. Works extremely hard and puts the extra work in to improve!! Passionate about winning!! He chose to finish the season in his country to attempt to win championship!
(Tony kukoch) (galinary) he will cost us 25 million 5 years from now when you want him. Or we can get him now cheap and he will be a future (piece) which equals a championship.

2. Desmond Bane 6-6. 6-5 no shoes? SG/SF 41 percent from 3 on (high volume)Good team defender. Decent man to man iso defender. Pure shooter. high bb iq. Strong. Will not get bullied down low. Floor spacer for RJ and Mitch or backup SF/SG? (Joe Harris) you guys are trying to pay him 16 million this off season when we can get him now for 2 million. He can be joe Harris in 5 years.

3. Tyler bey 6-7 Great defender. Runs the floor. Lob threat. Almost 40 percent from 3 on low volume .Quick twitch muscle. Will he be able to be a 3D c/s player? (Send to g league to find some offense at first)

Salary cap: enough to get a van fleet or Christian wood this year or Galinari

Next year: (try to get big ticket free agent)

2021 draft - draft best player available or possibly our future(star)PG

Guys I wouldn’t mind them picking

Vassell
Toppin
Aaron Nesmith
Bey
Jaden Smith
Paul reed
Cassius Stanley
Josh green
Nwora
Isaiah joe
Jay scrub
Diakite

(Not a fan of any of the early round pOint guards)

Their flaws don’t mesh well with the (construct)of the team.

Can they improve their flaws and we miss out on a All star? Sure... but this draft is about role players to help us win a championship.

We need(pieces with defined roles) sure things.

we cannot afford to take a shot on a (bust) who were (supposed) to develop a skill set.

((( we have the cap space to get 2 all star players to include with our core pieces))

Notable players

Kira

Grant Riller

Haliburton

Killian Hayes

Tyrell Terry

Patrick Williams

Tyrese maxey

Good assessment! I agree with most of it. I'm totally against signing guys like Joe Harris to long term deals when we can get similar shooters in the draft like Vasell, Bey or even Bane late in the draft on rookie deals. I'm not a fan of signing Van Vleet to a long term deal, either. He's done well in his role as the 3rd or 4th piece playing beside Lowry who burdens most of the pg duties. His role here will change drastically, and I dont think he moves the needle much if at all.

A draft of Avdija, Bane and Bey is not a bad one. I'm still formulating an opinion on Avdija but I wouldn't be mad if we draft him depending on where we fall in the draft and who still on the board.

C Robinson/Randle/Gibson(resign for cheap)
F Anthony/Knox/Giles(cheap pickup)Wooten(2way)
G/F Holiday/Bullock/Brazdeikis
G/F Barrett/Ntilikina/Bane
G VanVleet/Haliburton/Pritchard/Harper(2way)

Significantly better shooting with good mixture of youth and vet leadership.

Nalod wrote:Keep forgetting about Bullock! Good stop gap player. Like to see him start a season healthy.
I have no issue with Skinny Melo other than the generic age and he taking minutes from a player we are developing.
IT seems he has his head on straight but the fact is he is doing well because he is the third option with two studs in the back court in POrtland. Here he becomes our no. 1 option?
With a new coaching approach and attempt to instal a culture its not that he is negative, its just that I often think veteran Mentorship is better when its to reinforce an existing culture. Help players understand what the coaches are doing. A floor general like CP3 might be a better fit than a historically volume shooter.
I like Melo, but he is better off on a playoff contender and I would not begrudge him at this stage of his career to chase a ring. Reminds me of Bob McAdoo, his place and reputation are firmly in place. HOF awaits and a ring won’t tarnish the career. Won’t necessarily define his career given he’ll be a role player. He can at lease experience an nba chip!

Melo wouldn't see the minutes to be our #1. I think in my scenario that we sign VanVleet, FVV and Barrett would be 1A and 1B, Randle and Melo would share 3rd option role.

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Keep forgetting about Bullock! Good stop gap player. Like to see him start a season healthy.
I have no issue with Skinny Melo other than the generic age and he taking minutes from a player we are developing.
IT seems he has his head on straight but the fact is he is doing well because he is the third option with two studs in the back court in POrtland. Here he becomes our no. 1 option?
With a new coaching approach and attempt to instal a culture its not that he is negative, its just that I often think veteran Mentorship is better when its to reinforce an existing culture. Help players understand what the coaches are doing. A floor general like CP3 might be a better fit than a historically volume shooter.
I like Melo, but he is better off on a playoff contender and I would not begrudge him at this stage of his career to chase a ring. Reminds me of Bob McAdoo, his place and reputation are firmly in place. HOF awaits and a ring won’t tarnish the career. Won’t necessarily define his career given he’ll be a role player. He can at lease experience an nba chip!

Melo wouldn't see the minutes to be our #1. I think in my scenario that we sign VanVleet, FVV and Barrett would be 1A and 1B, Randle and Melo would share 3rd option role.

Tell that to Melo!!!lol......Sounds good. You really see FVV as a no. 1 option? He is 3rds or 4th on Toronto and thats a big move to be the Alpha. No knock on him BTW, but he is effective because he is not 1 or 2.
I’m ok with Barrett as alpha but there is still a learning curve and patience akin to “tanking”.

Yeah FVV really shouldn't be a #1. It should be Barrett, but the reality is we would likely ride the hot hand of Barrett, FVV, Randle, or Melo. You will get plenty of offense, it just might not have a true #1 option yet. But my hope is Barrett gets there.

You would basically have 4 guys averaging 15-20 ppg with a rotation that includes Mitch as the defensive presence, Holiday and Bullock as 3&D guys, and Haliburton, Knox, and Ntilikina all seeing rotation minutes to develop. Haliburton definitely has some 3&D potential early in his career to have a big impact. And Bane has a chance to break into the rotation at some point with his outside shooting.

martin wrote:I am trying to figure out why FVV is a target, especially considering the economics. Team salary caps will be going down, China, COVID, etc. I think that's a solid assumption. Cap space will be a priory for team for at least 2 years.

So at what price is FVV going to move on from a Toronto team? We would have to outbid them. I don't think FVV is worth anywhere near $20M, if he gets $15M from Toronto I'd be surprised.

FVV is a good range shooter. He is not a lead PG. He is undersized and maybe his defense is super solid in a good system and I don't watch enough to know how good his individual defense is.

You aren't paying for upside, he is probably capped there?

I'm trying to think of guards who just signed recent contracts that we could compare.

Eric Gordon, just signed starting at $14M for 4 years. Malcolm Brogdon 4 years at $20M per. Rozier, 3 years $19M (and everyone thought this was an overpay). Eric Bledsoe 4 years starting at $15.5M. Marcus Smart (a year prior) starting around $12M for 4 years.

FVV at $20M is not good economics for his role.

You don't really have to outbid Toronto necessarily, he's a UFA. He may want his own challenge after already winning. He's a younger guard just entering his prime that can shoot and defend. He's not a true lead guard, but we want Barrett to take on some lead playmaking duties, so it makes sense. FVV probably won't be a star, but i like the skillset and it's perfect for our team that is currently built around Barrett and Mitch. I'd prefer to pay a little above market to finally solve our PG issue and have it be a player who fits. He's a much better player than all of the ones you listed. He's comparable to Brogdon but a little better. Maybe you're just underrating him a little bit, idk. If you would prefer a rookie starting or another stopgap that's fine, but FVV is likely a target this fall.

BRIGGS wrote:We need to find our own van fleet not get scketed into paying 20 mm for him.

Easier said than done. But if we can do it, sign me up.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:I am trying to figure out why FVV is a target, especially considering the economics. Team salary caps will be going down, China, COVID, etc. I think that's a solid assumption. Cap space will be a priory for team for at least 2 years.

So at what price is FVV going to move on from a Toronto team? We would have to outbid them. I don't think FVV is worth anywhere near $20M, if he gets $15M from Toronto I'd be surprised.

FVV is a good range shooter. He is not a lead PG. He is undersized and maybe his defense is super solid in a good system and I don't watch enough to know how good his individual defense is.

You aren't paying for upside, he is probably capped there?

I'm trying to think of guards who just signed recent contracts that we could compare.

Eric Gordon, just signed starting at $14M for 4 years. Malcolm Brogdon 4 years at $20M per. Rozier, 3 years $19M (and everyone thought this was an overpay). Eric Bledsoe 4 years starting at $15.5M. Marcus Smart (a year prior) starting around $12M for 4 years.

FVV at $20M is not good economics for his role.

You don't really have to outbid Toronto necessarily, he's a UFA. He may want his own challenge after already winning. He's a younger guard just entering his prime that can shoot and defend. He's not a true lead guard, but we want Barrett to take on some lead playmaking duties, so it makes sense. FVV probably won't be a star, but i like the skillset and it's perfect for our team that is currently built around Barrett and Mitch. I'd prefer to pay a little above market to finally solve our PG issue and have it be a player who fits. He's a much better player than all of the ones you listed. He's comparable to Brogdon but a little better. Maybe you're just underrating him a little bit, idk. If you would prefer a rookie starting or another stopgap that's fine, but FVV is likely a target this fall.

So what do you think Toronto is offering him and what do you think the Knicks need to offer him?

Record-wise, TOR is a top 5 team in the league... and FVV is bored and just wants to go to a bottom team cause...? Lowry gonna retire soon and why wouldn't it be more likely that FVV extends and stays and knows he will be on a top team? I don't know too many players that hop from a top 5 team to a bottom 5 team because of the challenge? Can you maybe name a few?

And absolutely we would have to outbid Toronto, UFA or not. They can pay him more in increases and those add up, and they offer him one of the best front offices and a stable, winning environment. This is not a vacuum.

I don't see Lowry retiring anytime soon. I am wondering if FVV wants to be a lead guard for a team. As far as money i don't have a clue, but a lot of teams are going to be cutting costs this year. I'm just thinking for a best-case scenario perspective. We are in unprecedented times. It may not go down this way of course. I wouldn't really overpay.

? OK that's just kind of a non response. I mean, if you can't even take a shot in the dark, the rest of what you say is just fluff.

Lowry is 34 and will be 35 next season in the last year of his contract (2020-21). Maybe he doesn't retire but do you really think he is the lead PG at 36 for Toronto?

What type of response do you want? I’m not saying I’m giving FVV the max. I’ll consider 20 a year because he’s a young top 50 player who fits like a glove at PG. Toronto probably offers him somewhere around there or a little less. Lowry is 34 and isn’t really slowing down too much and probably can hold that position for at least another 2-3 years. If FVV is happy playing out of position at the 2 than that’s fine. My thought is he may feel he’s ready for a larger playmaking role at his natural position with a team that provides some more exposure (both good and bad.) all these NBA players think they are stars and deserve more attention and responsibility. Maybe he’s like that, or maybe not. I like his game and feel like he can fit well next to Barrett. And I really want to invest in 2way players who can shoot. He just checks off all my boxes.

I would take James Wiseman number 1 and I think he’s ultimately going to go 1 or 2.

But I think our best bet is to find high end shooters— shooters shoot abd it’s a translating skill. These guys shoot w range— this isn’t the old college 3 this is nba.

But sans getting pick 1 I hope the knicks go after woods — it will be a good move. It’s nearly impossible to get a player like him. I don’t see Fred van fleet as a guy who can carry a team. He’s a glue player with clutch genes — but when u have the guys he plays with — makes him look way better.

Zero interest in 32-33 gallinari or trading for K love C paul. Milsap etc..
I want the 24 year old Woods to pair with 22 year old Robinson. With Randle picking up a block of minutes to keep them all fresh.
It will create great spacing. You add in a great slasher like Barrett. Add an iggy who I think can help— a swarm of three point shooters - I mean real good ones who all play D. We have invested a lot of equity in frank— I think we give him a chance. Maybe we draft a HLliburton( but I think he’s gone by 6-7) I think get the best 3 point shooter in the draft(Nesmith)his skills translate more than almost ANY player! He can f shoot!!! Easy beautiful form great nba body—-I mean this is Mike Redd two here!!! How can u go wrong with that???

We have a great great chance to get 7-9 guys together who are 25 or so to keep together for long term growth. Dans getting a shaq that how ya do it!!!