GustavBahler wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Miller is a rookie....Thibs is a vet.....Inever liked JVG when he was coaching the knicks. Offense was boring. Thibs at least has coached recently and has adjusted to today's basketball. Plus his roots on defense doesnt go away. Hes one of the best defensive minded coaches out there, next to JVG.Right now, it doesnt matter what moves we make, until we develop an identity. Thibs will help lead that cultural change, and attract other two way defensive minded players like Morris.
Agree with this. Understand the love for Miller but also feel Knick fans are enamored with underdog blue color guys. Not a bad thing but unrealistic. IMO, just getting a decent guy to coach the team, Miller, leaves out the most important factor needed for the Knicks right now. Lets face it, NO ONE wants to come here. Except to get overpaid. Thibs has a much better rep, league wide, then Miller. He changes the perspective for many fee agents. Rose knows that. He knows that we need to be able to attract the elite players in the league. Dolan also knows that. Reason why he hired Rose. NO way Miller sticks. Like the guy but he is a better fit for teams looking to slowly develop young players. And feel Dolan is tired of doing that and now looking to get some big names and win. Always liked Thibs so either way, happy to hear he may be the next coach.
Wanting Miller to stay isnt about sentiment. He's doing a good job with a lottery team. The players seem to respect and play hard for him. Is good with Xs and Os, big on details. Miller worked his way up the organization.
Not so sure Thibs has a great rep outside of Ex-Bulls who he famously ran into the ground, with multiple players ending up in the hospital. KAT might be a Diva, but he is part of the younger NBA generation that Thibs apparently had trouble connecting with. Thibs is an old school coach, not confident he can connect with players who arent willing to be ridden as hard as his vets were in Chicago.
As a Knicks fan, if Thibs was introduced, there would be some questions Id like to see answered
What lessons have you learned from your last coaching gig? Do you believe in load mgmt for vets? Will anything be different from your last stop?
I dont see this move attracting elite players. They will see another coach on the Knicks coaching carousel.
Think you are debating a point no one is disagreeing with. No one is saying Miller has been a bad coach. Or that he does not have a chance. Like Miller. What I am saying is that if you look at the writing on the wall and what has been the issue for the Knicks the last few years is the inability to attract elite players. Why do you think Dolan hired Rose? His developmental skills? Why do you think he hired a new PR company? He was not happy with the Knicks value? Rose was brought in here to attract elite players and try to win NOW. If you think Miller fits that objective, you will be quickly disappointed. If there is someone else besides Thibs that can attract players as well, that may be the hire. But again, always liked Thibs.
You're arguing a point I havent made. Said repeatedly that Id be fine if Rose went out and found an elite coach, or someone in the college ranks who had the potential to be one. Instead Im hearing that its a good idea to replace a coach who has made more out of less, with a coach who made less out of more, his last stop. And to compound things, over someone who worked his way up the org.
Did not say anything is a good idea? Just telling you what the obvious signs are pointing to. Btw, You just made the same point that you claim your not making. That this has something to do with Miller's ability or potential and Thibs lack there of. Which btw is solely your opinion and a separate discussion as Thibs has a much better reputation and longer NBA experience. No matter how many times people bring up the Wolves tenure or the ole "he ran the Bulls to the ground" rant. One of which is a weak argument considering the Wolves have done very little since he left.
Point again was that the Knicks need elite players and that Rose was hired to attract those players. Rational would dictate that his next move will be to hire a higher profile coach to help attract them.. Thibs meets that criteria. Do not agree that Miller or someone in the college ranks does.
Gee, didnt realize your opinion wasnt an opinion. Thibs was given the power to build a team that didnt go far. A team whose stars he alienated. With his calling card, defense, at the bottom of the league. Thats more than opinion.
As well as the fact that Bulls players ended up in the hospital from being on the court too long. Those werent contact injuries.
We're supposed to ignore all that, why? Because Thibs was an asst. in NY eons ago? If they're going to replace Miller, the bar should be higher.
I agree with that...bar could be higher. And yes Thibs has some negatives in his NBA coaching experience.
But do you really want a coach with no scares, to coach a team filled with media sharks, and a non- NYer who doesn't understand the culture of NY basketball.
or
A coach that knows the culture, and actually has NBA coaching experience with lessons to learn from.
I look at it this way, both coaches Miller and Thibs, are not long term, but they have potential. And Miller shouldn't be fired or let go. I actually like him and the players like him, so he should stick around.
But this is a new Marketing team.....Mills is gone......Dolan is back in full control.....I think Dolan did his best at this rebuilding thing (hint: Knicks do not have a long history at rebuilding from the bottom up). And with his luck, the knicks are still the most valuable franchise, during all those years of bad basketball. But championships is not why the knicks are valuable. It's the star power that comes with entertaining high profile fans at MSG. Dolan needs superstars to sell tickets. So if he can't get NBA superstars, he hired the agent of those superstars.
The good news is, having Rose, doesn't appear to mean we stop rebuilding the roster. But at some point soon, Dolan will turn all these assets into star players....you can see it coming with every lost. Rose has that type of pull amongst players (see Miami banana boat championships whom I was told was part of), to orchestrate multiple moves to get 2 or 3 top players to come to MSG. Meanwhile, let the kids try and prove themselves, while being coached by an old school NY type defensive minded coach, with scares but also enough experience to be known by players and others in the NBA. And the key is he wants to be here. VS Phil Jackson, for example, didn't....until the money was too high.
Miller or Thibs.....Is it really worth a discussion. Neither would move the needle....But I can see the arguement to add Thibs.....Maybe the smart move is to add him as an assistant. See what Miller does for the rest of the season, then make a decision then. There's no rush for the FO....Since Thibs is not a top tier coach thats available, but hes another stop gap, and potential culture change agent, due to his defensive perception as a coach. The roster is still a mess, and thats where the change must happen!
Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland.
The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!