knicks1248 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

We've been sucking for the past 18 years. Giving away our draft picks and gave away the whole team for Melo. There is no future with these players. Randle is a poor version of Melo.

We are on pace to have a 3rd 17 win season in like 4 yrs under this FO.

74 mill in cap space, and you can't even build a 500 team.

Fizales is like 69 games under 500, pacing himself for 1 win out of every 7 to 10 games.

Perry is a well below avg GM who hasn't made a single trade to get us better only worse.

How does a president, a GM, and a coach HOLD THEMSELVES Accountable.

How did Phili hold themselves accountable? They won 18, 19 and 10 games and you repeatedly use them as a model of a "winning team" with "accountability."

Can you comment on the process that got them there? You are literally getting the same thing and cant stomach 5 minutes of it. How's about 5 years of it? Whatcha got?

Jmpasq wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:Look we have some nice role players, and a potential star in Barrett 2 years down the road. There’s a plethora of great PG’s coming out of the draft. We have had 3 really bad years, this is what a rebuild looks like.

The only thing I can’t stand is the lack of hustle we need a proven winner as a coach. Someone who can teach these kids, I don’t care if we loose as long as we give 110% and know we left it all out on the floor... if you don’t you don’t play period.

We are getting out worked on a nightly basis last night when we went up in the first quarter, the raptors just out hustled us they actually gave a S HIt. That team is a well oiled machine, thanks to great coaching... they lost there best player were without there best player in lowery... just look at there bench a bunch of nobody’s. Yes they have a star in pascal, a washed up center in gasol, and a potential 6th man of the year in van vleet.

Everyone on our team isn’t even giving 70 % except for frank and Gibson. That is unacceptable, and that falls solely on the entire coaching staff.

Is this team good no and I don’t even expect a great coach to get this team a winning record... is this team better then 4 wins tied for the worst record in the league, yes absolutely.

Management needs to fire fiz and the staff to show the players we are not going to accept half Assing... we are bringing in a proven winner as a coach and you as players are next on the block if you don’t give 110%

Right now we could put out a g league squad and have a better chance of winning at least they will hustle.

Right now this team is on easy street with no accountability basically going through the motions to collect a paycheck. It’s unacceptable.

Keepers
Barrett
Frank
Knox
Gibson
Robinson
Iggy
Zo

The rest can go

We need to keep building through the draft eventually we are going to strike gold. We should be looking to gather as many first round picks as possible.

Steps to success

fire fiz and entire staff

Bring in a proven winner that holds players accountable and can build a winning culture.

Trade the high priced role players for picks

Maybe open up cap space for a star but don’t count on it.

Next year this team could look like

Pg: top five pick, frank, Payton
Sg: Barrett, zo and dot
Sf: Knox,first round pick from Randal,iggy
Pf: first round pick from Morris, free agent signing
C: Robinson, Gibson

We should also see if someone is willing to give us a first for dsjr

And next year still a lottery team but with another top 5 pick and Dallas pick

Pg: 2020 top pick, Frank, Payton
Sg: Barrett, zo, dot
Sf:2021 top 5 pick, knox, 2020 first round
Pf:2020first, Dallas pick
C: Robinson,Gibson

Hopefully with some of the lottery talent can attract a star throw the Greek freak in that squad and we are contenders. the rebuild is finished by 2021 and we contend for the next 10 years.

That is what a rebuild looks like everyone buckle in and enjoy the circus it’s gonna be a bumpy ride.

the porzingis trade is a disaster that pick will be in the low 20's. If they traded him when Phil wanted to we would of gotten lottery picks. Probably could of got Doncic instead of Knox as the team would of tanked from Game 1 instead of game 50. The franchise is always 3 moves behind

Back to the Knicks. As much as I like RJ Barrett - after seeing him more, he kind of reminds me of Jim Jackson. I worry a bit about his upside. He already has NBA size and strength. His clear gap is his shooting. You see it in his FT% that he's a work in progress. I worry that his shot will never develop - players that can shoot at an early age may soon get much higher preference in the draft than all-around players/athletes. Maybe his range goes out to a reliable 18-20ft (which would have made him a darned good player from 1980-2010), but no one wants players taking those shots anymore.

Mitchell Robinson worries me too - he fouls at a faster rate than as a rookie. You see high upside, but are the Knicks the team to help him reach his potential or close to it? I just sense dysfunction and a coach gasping for straws at the moment. It feels like an unstable development environment.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

We've been sucking for the past 18 years. Giving away our draft picks and gave away the whole team for Melo. There is no future with these players. Randle is a poor version of Melo.

We are on pace to have a 3rd 17 win season in like 4 yrs under this FO.

74 mill in cap space, and you can't even build a 500 team.

Fizales is like 69 games under 500, pacing himself for 1 win out of every 7 to 10 games.

Perry is a well below avg GM who hasn't made a single trade to get us better only worse.

How does a president, a GM, and a coach HOLD THEMSELVES Accountable.

76rs did it for 4-5 years, called it "the process" and you love them saying cute things like "Trey Burke was signed by a team looking to win a title"

How did Phili hold themselves accountable? They won 18, 19 and 10 games and you repeatedly use them as a model of a "winning team" with "accountability."

Can you comment on the process that got them there? You are literally getting the same thing and cant stomach 5 minutes of it. How's about 5 years of it? Whatcha got?

It's been 6 yrs since our NEW ERA started.

FISH, you know MAJOR changes are coming, it's inevitable when your this bad for this long..STOPPED DISPUTING THAT like you haven't seen the MOVIE before

The only reason it took philly 4-5 yrs was the injuries to their TWO prized rookies EMBIID and Simmons.

It had nothing to do with BAD coaching and horrible decision making from the F/O, they didn't have to trade their FRANCHISE pieces because they no longer wanted to be part of their BS games.

You act is if we're on the right PATH...lmao!!!!

Sorry.. what happened six years ago that you are lumping this group in with?

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

We've been sucking for the past 18 years. Giving away our draft picks and gave away the whole team for Melo. There is no future with these players. Randle is a poor version of Melo.

We are on pace to have a 3rd 17 win season in like 4 yrs under this FO.

74 mill in cap space, and you can't even build a 500 team.

Fizales is like 69 games under 500, pacing himself for 1 win out of every 7 to 10 games.

Perry is a well below avg GM who hasn't made a single trade to get us better only worse.

How does a president, a GM, and a coach HOLD THEMSELVES Accountable.

76rs did it for 4-5 years, called it "the process" and you love them saying cute things like "Trey Burke was signed by a team looking to win a title"

How did Phili hold themselves accountable? They won 18, 19 and 10 games and you repeatedly use them as a model of a "winning team" with "accountability."

Can you comment on the process that got them there? You are literally getting the same thing and cant stomach 5 minutes of it. How's about 5 years of it? Whatcha got?

It's been 6 yrs since our NEW ERA started.

FISH, you know MAJOR changes are coming, it's inevitable when your this bad for this long..STOPPED DISPUTING THAT like you haven't seen the MOVIE before

The only reason it took philly 4-5 yrs was the injuries to their TWO prized rookies EMBIID and Simmons.

It had nothing to do with BAD coaching and horrible decision making from the F/O, they didn't have to trade their FRANCHISE pieces because they no longer wanted to be part of their BS games.

You act is if we're on the right PATH...lmao!!!!

the point is you cant tell the difference.

Sorry.. what happened six years ago that you are lumping this group in with?

Mills..

Now i can go back and pull out Mills laundry list of things he said would occur under his leadership 6 yrs ago.. He backed ever thing Phil said he would do (except the triangle). Once he became president he said the same exact things he said when phil was brought in, (we are going to continue the course).

Nobody on the face of this earth believes the knicks are in a good place, with good direction.

we have tanked 5 1/2 straight seasons, that is unheard of in sports (with the exception of the cleveland browns)

I don't know why it's so hard for you to agree that we need an entire new F/O and coaching staff..smh

Knicks stink because they lack talent. SMH that you cant see that. Now what's your plan for getting that talent? (this is where you fall flat in your daily ramblings)

Uptown wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

We've been sucking for the past 18 years. Giving away our draft picks and gave away the whole team for Melo. There is no future with these players. Randle is a poor version of Melo.

We are on pace to have a 3rd 17 win season in like 4 yrs under this FO.

74 mill in cap space, and you can't even build a 500 team.

Fizales is like 69 games under 500, pacing himself for 1 win out of every 7 to 10 games.

Perry is a well below avg GM who hasn't made a single trade to get us better only worse.

How does a president, a GM, and a coach HOLD THEMSELVES Accountable.

76rs did it for 4-5 years, called it "the process" and you love them saying cute things like "Trey Burke was signed by a team looking to win a title"

How did Phili hold themselves accountable? They won 18, 19 and 10 games and you repeatedly use them as a model of a "winning team" with "accountability."

Can you comment on the process that got them there? You are literally getting the same thing and cant stomach 5 minutes of it. How's about 5 years of it? Whatcha got?

It's been 6 yrs since our NEW ERA started.

FISH, you know MAJOR changes are coming, it's inevitable when your this bad for this long..STOPPED DISPUTING THAT like you haven't seen the MOVIE before

The only reason it took philly 4-5 yrs was the injuries to their TWO prized rookies EMBIID and Simmons.

It had nothing to do with BAD coaching and horrible decision making from the F/O, they didn't have to trade their FRANCHISE pieces because they no longer wanted to be part of their BS games.

You act is if we're on the right PATH...lmao!!!!

the point is you cant tell the difference.

Sorry.. what happened six years ago that you are lumping this group in with?

Mills..

Now i can go back and pull out Mills laundry list of things he said would occur under his leadership 6 yrs ago.. He backed ever thing Phil said he would do (except the triangle). Once he became president he said the same exact things he said when phil was brought in, (we are going to continue the course).

Nobody on the face of this earth believes the knicks are in a good place, with good direction.

we have tanked 5 1/2 straight seasons, that is unheard of in sports (with the exception of the cleveland browns)

I don't know why it's so hard for you to agree that we need an entire new F/O and coaching staff..smh

There is a difference in the way Perry has conducted business vs the way phil did his. If you cant see that the philosophy has changed within these six years when Perry replaced phil, you are being ignorant.

franco12 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Sure looks bad. TO be fair, we dumped a lot of salary, KP was damaged goods at the time and we were losing leverage if we waited.
KP is now paired with a rising superstar. Dennis looks bad at the moment. The trade looks awful but I’m to Not sure it really ever looked that great to begin with!
Dolan panicked when Phil had the balls to do what was needed in the face of unpopularity.

at least we cleared salary and used it on signing free agents that moved the needle...the wrong way

I can't blame anyone for taking the Dallas trade when they did. I still expect KP to miss chunks of seasons with injuries. It was probably the best looking deal at the time.

And that is one more reason to fire Fizdale to try to work out what is wrong with DSjr because right now, I'd release him to make room for a G Leager!

I thought the deal was bad then, and feel that more so now, and we're still largely hearing just one side of the story! Stay woke

knicks1248 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

We've been sucking for the past 18 years. Giving away our draft picks and gave away the whole team for Melo. There is no future with these players. Randle is a poor version of Melo.

We are on pace to have a 3rd 17 win season in like 4 yrs under this FO.

74 mill in cap space, and you can't even build a 500 team.

Fizales is like 69 games under 500, pacing himself for 1 win out of every 7 to 10 games.

Perry is a well below avg GM who hasn't made a single trade to get us better only worse.

How does a president, a GM, and a coach HOLD THEMSELVES Accountable.

76rs did it for 4-5 years, called it "the process" and you love them saying cute things like "Trey Burke was signed by a team looking to win a title"

How did Phili hold themselves accountable? They won 18, 19 and 10 games and you repeatedly use them as a model of a "winning team" with "accountability."

Can you comment on the process that got them there? You are literally getting the same thing and cant stomach 5 minutes of it. How's about 5 years of it? Whatcha got?

It's been 6 yrs since our NEW ERA started.

FISH, you know MAJOR changes are coming, it's inevitable when your this bad for this long..STOPPED DISPUTING THAT like you haven't seen the MOVIE before

The only reason it took philly 4-5 yrs was the injuries to their TWO prized rookies EMBIID and Simmons.

It had nothing to do with BAD coaching and horrible decision making from the F/O, they didn't have to trade their FRANCHISE pieces because they no longer wanted to be part of their BS games.

You act is if we're on the right PATH...lmao!!!!

the point is you cant tell the difference.

Sorry.. what happened six years ago that you are lumping this group in with?

Mills..

Now i can go back and pull out Mills laundry list of things he said would occur under his leadership 6 yrs ago.. He backed ever thing Phil said he would do (except the triangle). Once he became president he said the same exact things he said when phil was brought in, (we are going to continue the course).

Nobody on the face of this earth believes the knicks are in a good place, with good direction.

we have tanked 5 1/2 straight seasons, that is unheard of in sports (with the exception of the cleveland browns)

I don't know why it's so hard for you to agree that we need an entire new F/O and coaching staff..smh

There is a difference in the way Perry has conducted business vs the way phil did his. If you cant see that the philosophy has changed within these six years when Perry replaced phil, you are being ignorant.

WTF has perry done to make us a BETTER TEAM? Listen to fiz telling him to draft KNOX, telling mills to sign Mario and Payton

That dude is a straight PUPPET, he aint no real GM, get outta here with that..his ass is about to get the boot..his record falls right under FIZDALE... 21-103

How dear you try to defend him..lol

MS wrote:Here is the issue.

The Knicks are the worst franchise in the NBA. We are not, nor have ever been a free agent destination. We heard this the first time around with Lebron, the second time around, then with KD and Kyrie, now with Giannis. This franchise is trash and no one wants to play for this organization. So you need to build a culture through the draft. Let's put that aside.

Reviewing Moves since Phil exited:

1. Steve Mills, rushed to sign THJR, gave Ron Baker a two year deal (instead of Holiday who was traded on a better deal than Ron getting back second round picks). Two signings that didn't need to happen. Grade - D-

2. Buying out Noah. For what reason? Instead of him expiring this year, he counts on our 2021 cap for $6MM (Wasted space, if needed we could have stretched him this offseason) - Grade F

3. Trading KP - (DSJR, had to leave the Mavericks when Luka took his job, sound like a guy mentally equipped to handle NY? no!) Draft picks = Trash, now that Luka is a top 7 nba player) - Grade - D-

4. Offseason moves - 70MM+ on four power forwards and two journeyman guards(Morris and Randle isolation ball stoppers, stunt growth of young guys, 3 of 4 don't fit together.) Smart GMS take on Harkless and Iggy for picks, take assets like Mo Wagner that can shoot and are on rookie deals, take chances on guys like Lamb, etc. cost effective upside tradeable guys! - Grade D +

You trade KP because you have inside sources that guys want to come here and then no one wants to sit down with you in free agency? That in itself is laughable. The player development isn't strong within the organization and our assets are not being maximized. I don't know how four power forwards help frank, knox, mitch and barret?

Everyone can be patient. But, after 20 years of repeat mistakes, bad signings, sloppy GMs, revolving coaches and our slouching mess of an owner, there really isn't a future here.

This sums it up perfectly. There are multiple fireable offenses in there.