fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Vmart wrote:All you have to do is see that KP is gone and he was by far the best thing this organization had since Ewing. Don’t think Perry isn’t agenda driven. He isn’t looking at talent all he is thinking is he isn’t my pick.

Bull****...

I think everyone is getting their shot. This is all about Frank. I dont see anybody complaining about Allen or some of the other guys... this is all a out Frank. He's taken another step but he's probably a while season away from being an nba player. On a team like Detroit he would shine though because they have established veterans that he can fill the blanks on. The Knicks don't have that.

To Me Frank is a g league player right now... he could go on to be called back up after the new year but he's just not there....

Dsj just needs to get in shape. Elfrid is who he is but should wake up by opening night. Were good at point guard... Barrett and Trier are our 2 guards, period!

Fuck all the dumb ****... Frank is highly expendable. The knicks need help elsewhere.... and truthfully, it's not fair to keep Frank buried on our bench. If you dont like the idea the go become a Detroit fan... you are clearly not a Knicks fan. It should be what's best for the team not any individual player...

Check the sig

G-league players don’t play World Cup and shut Kenna Walkers of the world down. Once again just another I need him to be a scorer BS post. With you guys you want players who can drop 20 point and let out 25 point and call that a successful player. How that work out with Melo, Marbury if a player doesn’t bring it defensively than it not a successful player for winning.

How you guys underestimate the need for defense amazes me.

No BS about needing more scoring from a player who has scored relatively little in his career. In a sport, a league, that puts a premium on scoring. This isnt Soccer. Frank has been at the very bottom of the league in that category. If he wasnt, Frank would be in high demand as a rotation player.

Dennis Rodman played mostly D, one of the best in that dept. But he also scooped up rebounds, put backs, tip ins, etc. His game was mostly defense, but he also did the blue collar stuff to put points on the board. Frank needs that kind of mentality on offense. Doesnt have to be a highlight reel type PG. Does have to do more of the little things on offense.

I find the context of "career" being applied to Frankie as humorous. Frankie is, what, 2 years into the NBA a league whose statistical average for point guard development to be FIVE years. In those terms, he's way ahead of the learning curve AND maybe half way though the breaking in period. Calling that a career is a stretch.

And why [from a previous post] is Frankie the 'G' league player? Is this team *too good* for Frankie? Seriously?

Seems to me, he should be playing - starting/not starting doesn't matter.The whole point of this season needs to be learning to win together.

There is this magical thinking going on that DSJ *IS* the immediate gratification scorer who will keep offensive minded fans from wetting their pants if all the PG does is facilitate winning without scoring a boatload of points.

Maybe he is and I understand the FO's reluctance to admit otherwise - but I'm just not seeing it. Nor does DSJ bring the defensive presence almost all of our other guards do.

Its obvious the turkey vultures are swooping in on Fizdale. If I were him, I wouldn't waste a minute trying to prove DSJ was worth trading for - play to win. Period.

Make valid points in term of giving young players a shot. But you can't say in one sentence that 2 years is nothing in regards to labeling Frank then go on to label DSJR in the same regard. Specially when Smith has had very good first two years in spite, as you said quite well, of playing a position that requires more years to master. Not to mention Smith has done it with two different teams within those first two years.

Agree that we should be giving our draft picks a shot to learn and improve. However, think we have to also gauge if those young players have improved their weaknesses. Not saying its time to give up on Frank but shooting 28% and 11% from the 3, in pre season, makes it hard to think he will be able to overcome what will keep him out of a line up. Same holds true for Smith. If he does not improve his outside shooting, he may find teams may be forced to move on. Despite their relative potential.

Well, fairly or not, we make judgments about our youngins. I would simply point out that Frankie was playing on tanking teams and also has international experience.

IMO, "moving on" is unnecessary churn. We can afford to wait out all of our guys. No reason at all to be hasty.

Agreed.

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Vmart wrote:All you have to do is see that KP is gone and he was by far the best thing this organization had since Ewing. Don’t think Perry isn’t agenda driven. He isn’t looking at talent all he is thinking is he isn’t my pick.

Bull****...

I think everyone is getting their shot. This is all about Frank. I dont see anybody complaining about Allen or some of the other guys... this is all a out Frank. He's taken another step but he's probably a while season away from being an nba player. On a team like Detroit he would shine though because they have established veterans that he can fill the blanks on. The Knicks don't have that.

To Me Frank is a g league player right now... he could go on to be called back up after the new year but he's just not there....

Dsj just needs to get in shape. Elfrid is who he is but should wake up by opening night. Were good at point guard... Barrett and Trier are our 2 guards, period!

Fuck all the dumb ****... Frank is highly expendable. The knicks need help elsewhere.... and truthfully, it's not fair to keep Frank buried on our bench. If you dont like the idea the go become a Detroit fan... you are clearly not a Knicks fan. It should be what's best for the team not any individual player...

Check the sig

G-league players don’t play World Cup and shut Kenna Walkers of the world down. Once again just another I need him to be a scorer BS post. With you guys you want players who can drop 20 point and let out 25 point and call that a successful player. How that work out with Melo, Marbury if a player doesn’t bring it defensively than it not a successful player for winning.

How you guys underestimate the need for defense amazes me.

No BS about needing more scoring from a player who has scored relatively little in his career. In a sport, a league, that puts a premium on scoring. This isnt Soccer. Frank has been at the very bottom of the league in that category. If he wasnt, Frank would be in high demand as a rotation player.

Dennis Rodman played mostly D, one of the best in that dept. But he also scooped up rebounds, put backs, tip ins, etc. His game was mostly defense, but he also did the blue collar stuff to put points on the board. Frank needs that kind of mentality on offense. Doesnt have to be a highlight reel type PG. Does have to do more of the little things on offense.

I find the context of "career" being applied to Frankie as humorous. Frankie is, what, 2 years into the NBA a league whose statistical average for point guard development to be FIVE years. In those terms, he's way ahead of the learning curve AND maybe half way though the breaking in period. Calling that a career is a stretch.

And why [from a previous post] is Frankie the 'G' league player? Is this team *too good* for Frankie? Seriously?

Seems to me, he should be playing - starting/not starting doesn't matter.The whole point of this season needs to be learning to win together.

There is this magical thinking going on that DSJ *IS* the immediate gratification scorer who will keep offensive minded fans from wetting their pants if all the PG does is facilitate winning without scoring a boatload of points.

Maybe he is and I understand the FO's reluctance to admit otherwise - but I'm just not seeing it. Nor does DSJ bring the defensive presence almost all of our other guards do.

Its obvious the turkey vultures are swooping in on Fizdale. If I were him, I wouldn't waste a minute trying to prove DSJ was worth trading for - play to win. Period.

Make valid points in term of giving young players a shot. But you can't say in one sentence that 2 years is nothing in regards to labeling Frank then go on to label DSJR in the same regard. Specially when Smith has had very good first two years in spite, as you said quite well, of playing a position that requires more years to master. Not to mention Smith has done it with two different teams within those first two years.

Agree that we should be giving our draft picks a shot to learn and improve. However, think we have to also gauge if those young players have improved their weaknesses. Not saying its time to give up on Frank but shooting 28% and 11% from the 3, in pre season, makes it hard to think he will be able to overcome what will keep him out of a line up. Same holds true for Smith. If he does not improve his outside shooting, he may find teams may be forced to move on. Despite their relative potential.

Well, fairly or not, we make judgments about our youngins. I would simply point out that Frankie was playing on tanking teams and also has international experience.

IMO, "moving on" is unnecessary churn. We can afford to wait out all of our guys. No reason at all to be hasty.

Agreed.

I agree too... I'm not ready to trade ther kid... but he's still not in my rotation.

EnySpree wrote:

Vmart wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Vmart wrote:All you have to do is see that KP is gone and he was by far the best thing this organization had since Ewing. Don’t think Perry isn’t agenda driven. He isn’t looking at talent all he is thinking is he isn’t my pick.

Bull****...

I think everyone is getting their shot. This is all about Frank. I dont see anybody complaining about Allen or some of the other guys... this is all a out Frank. He's taken another step but he's probably a while season away from being an nba player. On a team like Detroit he would shine though because they have established veterans that he can fill the blanks on. The Knicks don't have that.

To Me Frank is a g league player right now... he could go on to be called back up after the new year but he's just not there....

Dsj just needs to get in shape. Elfrid is who he is but should wake up by opening night. Were good at point guard... Barrett and Trier are our 2 guards, period!

Fuck all the dumb ****... Frank is highly expendable. The knicks need help elsewhere.... and truthfully, it's not fair to keep Frank buried on our bench. If you dont like the idea the go become a Detroit fan... you are clearly not a Knicks fan. It should be what's best for the team not any individual player...

Check the sig

G-league players don’t play World Cup and shut Kenna Walkers of the world down. Once again just another I need him to be a scorer BS post. With you guys you want players who can drop 20 point and let out 25 point and call that a successful player. How that work out with Melo, Marbury if a player doesn’t bring it defensively than it not a successful player for winning.

How you guys underestimate the need for defense amazes me.

This isn't football. It's basketball. Frank isn't aggressive enough or consistent enough doing what ge does well and that's play defense...

Nobody mentioned scoring with Frank... but that's the same tired arguement with groupie fans. We need to put the best 5 players out there... we need to rotate in 4-5 more quality guys. I explained what I explained. What does Melo and Marbury have to do with this conversation? Nothing... in the guard rotation Frank is on the outside looking in. I'm ok with a fan thinking Frank should play over another player that's fine... but dont start reaching for a rope to pull you out of an Argument. Frank's issue has been assertiveness. Nobody's taking about offense. Ain't no groupies over here. I'm about the Jersey. I could care less about any of these guys individually. It's about who fits that rotation. Frank is not in my rotation. If he's in yours cool but save that extra stuff

Thank you.
Marbury? What the hell does Marbles have to do with Frankie? In his prime, Marbles was Iverson with dimes who could take over games and WIN. Frankie hasn't shown **** except a propensity for being the youngest player to be rated at the bottom of the league. So we drafted another Frenchman who's not going to make much of splash in the NBA. But hopefully will have more of legacy than getting posterized by prime time Vinsanity. Just probably not here.

Notice the pattern? Phil lovers love Frankie and love KP and hate Melo and love Lin. What does the one player in those four have that the other 3 don't have? MAKING THE PLAYOFFS. EVER.

But that's not important to people who can sit and scream D-FENSE while their favorite players sit around in suits.

jrodmc wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Vmart wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Vmart wrote:All you have to do is see that KP is gone and he was by far the best thing this organization had since Ewing. Don’t think Perry isn’t agenda driven. He isn’t looking at talent all he is thinking is he isn’t my pick.

Bull****...

I think everyone is getting their shot. This is all about Frank. I dont see anybody complaining about Allen or some of the other guys... this is all a out Frank. He's taken another step but he's probably a while season away from being an nba player. On a team like Detroit he would shine though because they have established veterans that he can fill the blanks on. The Knicks don't have that.

To Me Frank is a g league player right now... he could go on to be called back up after the new year but he's just not there....

Dsj just needs to get in shape. Elfrid is who he is but should wake up by opening night. Were good at point guard... Barrett and Trier are our 2 guards, period!

Fuck all the dumb ****... Frank is highly expendable. The knicks need help elsewhere.... and truthfully, it's not fair to keep Frank buried on our bench. If you dont like the idea the go become a Detroit fan... you are clearly not a Knicks fan. It should be what's best for the team not any individual player...

Check the sig

G-league players don’t play World Cup and shut Kenna Walkers of the world down. Once again just another I need him to be a scorer BS post. With you guys you want players who can drop 20 point and let out 25 point and call that a successful player. How that work out with Melo, Marbury if a player doesn’t bring it defensively than it not a successful player for winning.

How you guys underestimate the need for defense amazes me.

This isn't football. It's basketball. Frank isn't aggressive enough or consistent enough doing what ge does well and that's play defense...

Nobody mentioned scoring with Frank... but that's the same tired arguement with groupie fans. We need to put the best 5 players out there... we need to rotate in 4-5 more quality guys. I explained what I explained. What does Melo and Marbury have to do with this conversation? Nothing... in the guard rotation Frank is on the outside looking in. I'm ok with a fan thinking Frank should play over another player that's fine... but dont start reaching for a rope to pull you out of an Argument. Frank's issue has been assertiveness. Nobody's taking about offense. Ain't no groupies over here. I'm about the Jersey. I could care less about any of these guys individually. It's about who fits that rotation. Frank is not in my rotation. If he's in yours cool but save that extra stuff

Thank you.
Marbury? What the hell does Marbles have to do with Frankie? In his prime, Marbles was Iverson with dimes who could take over games and WIN. Frankie hasn't shown **** except a propensity for being the youngest player to be rated at the bottom of the league. So we drafted another Frenchman who's not going to make much of splash in the NBA. But hopefully will have more of legacy than getting posterized by prime time Vinsanity. Just probably not here.

Notice the pattern? Phil lovers love Frankie and love KP and hate Melo and love Lin. What does the one player in those four have that the other 3 don't have? MAKING THE PLAYOFFS. EVER.

But that's not important to people who can sit and scream D-FENSE while their favorite players sit around in suits.

You lost me at WIN. The point is everyone just thinks about half the aspect of basketball offense and not the defensive side of the game. DSJ is the Marbury in some eyes, and maybe to me Frank is Ward/Derek Harper in my eyes. Does Frank have to prove himself yes but he can only do so if given an opportunity.

As for Melo. Net negative player that can fill up the basket. Not much else hence he is out of the league.

Vmart wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Vmart wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Vmart wrote:All you have to do is see that KP is gone and he was by far the best thing this organization had since Ewing. Don’t think Perry isn’t agenda driven. He isn’t looking at talent all he is thinking is he isn’t my pick.

Bull****...

I think everyone is getting their shot. This is all about Frank. I dont see anybody complaining about Allen or some of the other guys... this is all a out Frank. He's taken another step but he's probably a while season away from being an nba player. On a team like Detroit he would shine though because they have established veterans that he can fill the blanks on. The Knicks don't have that.

To Me Frank is a g league player right now... he could go on to be called back up after the new year but he's just not there....

Dsj just needs to get in shape. Elfrid is who he is but should wake up by opening night. Were good at point guard... Barrett and Trier are our 2 guards, period!

Fuck all the dumb ****... Frank is highly expendable. The knicks need help elsewhere.... and truthfully, it's not fair to keep Frank buried on our bench. If you dont like the idea the go become a Detroit fan... you are clearly not a Knicks fan. It should be what's best for the team not any individual player...

Check the sig

G-league players don’t play World Cup and shut Kenna Walkers of the world down. Once again just another I need him to be a scorer BS post. With you guys you want players who can drop 20 point and let out 25 point and call that a successful player. How that work out with Melo, Marbury if a player doesn’t bring it defensively than it not a successful player for winning.

How you guys underestimate the need for defense amazes me.

This isn't football. It's basketball. Frank isn't aggressive enough or consistent enough doing what ge does well and that's play defense...

Nobody mentioned scoring with Frank... but that's the same tired arguement with groupie fans. We need to put the best 5 players out there... we need to rotate in 4-5 more quality guys. I explained what I explained. What does Melo and Marbury have to do with this conversation? Nothing... in the guard rotation Frank is on the outside looking in. I'm ok with a fan thinking Frank should play over another player that's fine... but dont start reaching for a rope to pull you out of an Argument. Frank's issue has been assertiveness. Nobody's taking about offense. Ain't no groupies over here. I'm about the Jersey. I could care less about any of these guys individually. It's about who fits that rotation. Frank is not in my rotation. If he's in yours cool but save that extra stuff

Thank you.
Marbury? What the hell does Marbles have to do with Frankie? In his prime, Marbles was Iverson with dimes who could take over games and WIN. Frankie hasn't shown **** except a propensity for being the youngest player to be rated at the bottom of the league. So we drafted another Frenchman who's not going to make much of splash in the NBA. But hopefully will have more of legacy than getting posterized by prime time Vinsanity. Just probably not here.

Notice the pattern? Phil lovers love Frankie and love KP and hate Melo and love Lin. What does the one player in those four have that the other 3 don't have? MAKING THE PLAYOFFS. EVER.

But that's not important to people who can sit and scream D-FENSE while their favorite players sit around in suits.

You lost me at WIN.

Yeah, or PLAYOFFS.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1186333114190180352

Nalod wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1186333114190180352

Hahahaha

houston20 wrote:Frank option picked up could mean the piston wanted his option to be picked up for trade.

Could also mean the Knicks wanted him on team for another year and have the option to decide everything about Frank and DSJr later

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

houston20 wrote:Frank option picked up could mean the piston wanted his option to be picked up for trade.

Could also mean the Knicks wanted him on team for another year and have the option to decide everything about Frank and DSJr later

why make stuff up when there are actual people talking about it?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ianbegley/status/1186343924509696000

We all love to see a turn around summer and it still might happen. For all we know Frank starts, is told "You keep shooting, don't worry and we won't pull you. You hesitate, we pull you". The process might be for frank to be confident as we all want, it has to evolve on the big stage.
Or he is third string. I really don't know. I believe Fiz wanted to see Frank and DSjr as his back court last year. Curious if he still wants to see this. RJ will get his minutes, question is he a 2 or a 3?