Chandler wrote:Sobering thought:

Nola which had Jrue and Randle and AD won 33 games. Do we really think we'll win more than that? We won the right to a crappier draft pick -- that's about it

time to clean house

Our FO was supposed to make the team a destination: instead we're cheering no toxic signings and they're all tradeable. (Of course anyone could have just signed them but didn't; our logic is someone would prefer to trade than buy as if this is a big thing...) (BTW I am glad we didn't sign KD or KI just noting the fallacy). Last year Casey, Budenholzer and Clifford were available; we scored Fizzle whose best asset at this point may be his wife

Our charismatic Coach alienated KP (who certainly deserves blame as well), demoralized Frank, and got Mud's shooting % up (anyone hearing anything other than crickets about Mud); our prized lottery pick looked studly in Summer League but once coach go a hold of him he turned into a lost soul, chucking shots and losing his man on D.

Our passing got worse, our defense got worse. Anyone remember Mill's words at his opening press conference saying how the team was going to pass to get a better shot, play D. Mills never sent that memo to CS apparently

This year will be different though -- just wait until the secret plan is unveiled

Chandler wrote:Sobering thought:

Nola which had Jrue and Randle and AD won 33 games. Do we really think we'll win more than that? We won the right to a crappier draft pick -- that's about it

time to clean house

Our FO was supposed to make the team a destination: instead we're cheering no toxic signings and they're all tradeable. (Of course anyone could have just signed them but didn't; our logic is someone would prefer to trade than buy as if this is a big thing...) (BTW I am glad we didn't sign KD or KI just noting the fallacy). Last year Casey, Budenholzer and Clifford were available; we scored Fizzle whose best asset at this point may be his wife

Our charismatic Coach alienated KP (who certainly deserves blame as well), demoralized Frank, and got Mud's shooting % up (anyone hearing anything other than crickets about Mud); our prized lottery pick looked studly in Summer League but once coach go a hold of him he turned into a lost soul, chucking shots and losing his man on D.

Our passing got worse, our defense got worse. Anyone remember Mill's words at his opening press conference saying how the team was going to pass to get a better shot, play D. Mills never sent that memo to CS apparently

This year will be different though -- just wait until the secret plan is unveiled

I need a drink. Man you hit the nail on the head. Most won’t agree with you but they try and find good in every move the Knicks make even when it’s blatantly the worst move. They need a new coach badly preferably and Ex NBA player that know the real ropes of NBA basketball. This team needs to concentrate on player development. The only way for FAs to consider NY as a destination is to make sure your young players become star players and stir the NBA pot. Unfortunately Mr. I want LeBron to walk through the door is not going to get it done.

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:Sobering thought:

Nola which had Jrue and Randle and AD won 33 games. Do we really think we'll win more than that? We won the right to a crappier draft pick -- that's about it

time to clean house

Our FO was supposed to make the team a destination: instead we're cheering no toxic signings and they're all tradeable. (Of course anyone could have just signed them but didn't; our logic is someone would prefer to trade than buy as if this is a big thing...) (BTW I am glad we didn't sign KD or KI just noting the fallacy). Last year Casey, Budenholzer and Clifford were available; we scored Fizzle whose best asset at this point may be his wife

Our charismatic Coach alienated KP (who certainly deserves blame as well), demoralized Frank, and got Mud's shooting % up (anyone hearing anything other than crickets about Mud); our prized lottery pick looked studly in Summer League but once coach go a hold of him he turned into a lost soul, chucking shots and losing his man on D.

Our passing got worse, our defense got worse. Anyone remember Mill's words at his opening press conference saying how the team was going to pass to get a better shot, play D. Mills never sent that memo to CS apparently

This year will be different though -- just wait until the secret plan is unveiled

thats not sobering thought.

Where Jrue/AD healthy last year? Their season was a disaster. AD quit and was hurt. JRue was hurt. They made trades. I mean take a look at what they did last year.

Did Fizdale visit KP in EU? Fizdale was the guy who alientated KP? Really?

I think so. Reasonable minds may differ.

It goes back to that episode where Fizz didn't know what condition KP was in and KP posted himself sprinting. I think that bugged KP to no end. I suspect he was thinking, either the coach was too busy talking and clueless, or he's making this injury sound even bigger than it is -- either way a negative. Let's be honest, there were many, many times where KP (in the earlier days) came across as very thoughtful and articulate and team oriented. I don't think he all of a sudden became stupid. I do think he got immensely frustrated with the lack of direction, and suffered further from having an idiotic brother. I think last year there was a breaking point; he flipped out thinking the team went from bad to worse and there was more talking than coaching or playing the game the right way (even if losing)

And to your point, Fizz absolutely did the right thing in visiting KP. He deserves credit for that. And I also think Fizz truly wanted the relationship to succeed. But he also has some serious consistency issues: like screaming at Frank for missing a PnR assignment, but not only tolerating horrendous D from Mud and KK and Zo but encouraging them to chuck to their hearts content. I suspect KP got tired of hearing the team preach one thing and do another.

Also, it's not like this is the first time this has happened, so let's not act too surprised. Fizz had this issue with Gasol, and Enes complained too about inconsistent messages (I take enes with a large grain of salt)

At the moment we have mostly the Knicks' side of the story. I don't think they are lying so much as they are probably slanting things and perhaps keeping other inconvenient issues out of the story. I also suspect there is more dirt on KP than is widely spread (like recent comments about excessive drinking)

Regardless, even if you think it was all KP's fault, I still think there is more than enough evidence to clean house. The only hesitation is it will just add to the narrative of how dysfunctional the organization is. We'll instead tolerate another horrendous season as if that is the better choice

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:Sobering thought:

Nola which had Jrue and Randle and AD won 33 games. Do we really think we'll win more than that? We won the right to a crappier draft pick -- that's about it

time to clean house

Our FO was supposed to make the team a destination: instead we're cheering no toxic signings and they're all tradeable. (Of course anyone could have just signed them but didn't; our logic is someone would prefer to trade than buy as if this is a big thing...) (BTW I am glad we didn't sign KD or KI just noting the fallacy). Last year Casey, Budenholzer and Clifford were available; we scored Fizzle whose best asset at this point may be his wife

Our charismatic Coach alienated KP (who certainly deserves blame as well), demoralized Frank, and got Mud's shooting % up (anyone hearing anything other than crickets about Mud); our prized lottery pick looked studly in Summer League but once coach go a hold of him he turned into a lost soul, chucking shots and losing his man on D.

Our passing got worse, our defense got worse. Anyone remember Mill's words at his opening press conference saying how the team was going to pass to get a better shot, play D. Mills never sent that memo to CS apparently

This year will be different though -- just wait until the secret plan is unveiled

thats not sobering thought.

Where Jrue/AD healthy last year? Their season was a disaster. AD quit and was hurt. JRue was hurt. They made trades. I mean take a look at what they did last year.

Did Fizdale visit KP in EU? Fizdale was the guy who alientated KP? Really?

I think so. Reasonable minds may differ.

It goes back to that episode where Fizz didn't know what condition KP was in and KP posted himself sprinting. I think that bugged KP to no end. I suspect he was thinking, either the coach was too busy talking and clueless, or he's making this injury sound even bigger than it is -- either way a negative. Let's be honest, there were many, many times where KP (in the earlier days) came across as very thoughtful and articulate and team oriented. I don't think he all of a sudden became stupid. I do think he got immensely frustrated with the lack of direction, and suffered further from having an idiotic brother. I think last year there was a breaking point; he flipped out thinking the team went from bad to worse and there was more talking than coaching or playing the game the right way (even if losing)

And to your point, Fizz absolutely did the right thing in visiting KP. He deserves credit for that. And I also think Fizz truly wanted the relationship to succeed. But he also has some serious consistency issues: like screaming at Frank for missing a PnR assignment, but not only tolerating horrendous D from Mud and KK and Zo but encouraging them to chuck to their hearts content. I suspect KP got tired of hearing the team preach one thing and do another.

Also, it's not like this is the first time this has happened, so let's not act too surprised. Fizz had this issue with Gasol, and Enes complained too about inconsistent messages (I take enes with a large grain of salt)

At the moment we have mostly the Knicks' side of the story. I don't think they are lying so much as they are probably slanting things and perhaps keeping other inconvenient issues out of the story. I also suspect there is more dirt on KP than is widely spread (like recent comments about excessive drinking)

Regardless, even if you think it was all KP's fault, I still think there is more than enough evidence to clean house. The only hesitation is it will just add to the narrative of how dysfunctional the organization is. We'll instead tolerate another horrendous season as if that is the better choice

According to Steven A. KP went to Mills and Perry and requested to have a meeting with Dolan. Mills and Perry fearing that KP wasn’t going to give a rave review about the state of the team they decided to make the move and trade KP. Fearing for their jobs. Technically KP didn’t want out he wanted to meet with Dolan which rubbed Perry and Mills wrong.

Knicksfan wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:Sobering thought:

Nola which had Jrue and Randle and AD won 33 games. Do we really think we'll win more than that? We won the right to a crappier draft pick -- that's about it

time to clean house

Our FO was supposed to make the team a destination: instead we're cheering no toxic signings and they're all tradeable. (Of course anyone could have just signed them but didn't; our logic is someone would prefer to trade than buy as if this is a big thing...) (BTW I am glad we didn't sign KD or KI just noting the fallacy). Last year Casey, Budenholzer and Clifford were available; we scored Fizzle whose best asset at this point may be his wife

Our charismatic Coach alienated KP (who certainly deserves blame as well), demoralized Frank, and got Mud's shooting % up (anyone hearing anything other than crickets about Mud); our prized lottery pick looked studly in Summer League but once coach go a hold of him he turned into a lost soul, chucking shots and losing his man on D.

Our passing got worse, our defense got worse. Anyone remember Mill's words at his opening press conference saying how the team was going to pass to get a better shot, play D. Mills never sent that memo to CS apparently

This year will be different though -- just wait until the secret plan is unveiled

thats not sobering thought.

Where Jrue/AD healthy last year? Their season was a disaster. AD quit and was hurt. JRue was hurt. They made trades. I mean take a look at what they did last year.

Did Fizdale visit KP in EU? Fizdale was the guy who alientated KP? Really?

I think so. Reasonable minds may differ.

It goes back to that episode where Fizz didn't know what condition KP was in and KP posted himself sprinting. I think that bugged KP to no end. I suspect he was thinking, either the coach was too busy talking and clueless, or he's making this injury sound even bigger than it is -- either way a negative. Let's be honest, there were many, many times where KP (in the earlier days) came across as very thoughtful and articulate and team oriented. I don't think he all of a sudden became stupid. I do think he got immensely frustrated with the lack of direction, and suffered further from having an idiotic brother. I think last year there was a breaking point; he flipped out thinking the team went from bad to worse and there was more talking than coaching or playing the game the right way (even if losing)

And to your point, Fizz absolutely did the right thing in visiting KP. He deserves credit for that. And I also think Fizz truly wanted the relationship to succeed. But he also has some serious consistency issues: like screaming at Frank for missing a PnR assignment, but not only tolerating horrendous D from Mud and KK and Zo but encouraging them to chuck to their hearts content. I suspect KP got tired of hearing the team preach one thing and do another.

Also, it's not like this is the first time this has happened, so let's not act too surprised. Fizz had this issue with Gasol, and Enes complained too about inconsistent messages (I take enes with a large grain of salt)

At the moment we have mostly the Knicks' side of the story. I don't think they are lying so much as they are probably slanting things and perhaps keeping other inconvenient issues out of the story. I also suspect there is more dirt on KP than is widely spread (like recent comments about excessive drinking)

Regardless, even if you think it was all KP's fault, I still think there is more than enough evidence to clean house. The only hesitation is it will just add to the narrative of how dysfunctional the organization is. We'll instead tolerate another horrendous season as if that is the better choice

According to Steven A. KP went to Mills and Perry and requested to have a meeting with Dolan. Mills and Perry fearing that KP wasn’t going to give a rave review about the state of the team they decided to make the move and trade KP. Fearing for their jobs. Technically KP didn’t want out he wanted to meet with Dolan which rubbed Perry and Mills wrong.

Isn't this SPECULATION, though?

It is for sure but it's also certain most of what we are hearing is from Knicks point of view

Who knows, maybe KP had delusions of LBJ-grandeur wanting a new GM and CS. Oops played that hand wrong. You just got your ass traded to Dallas. You'll be the only Lavian in a 100 miles!

Sports Illustrated had a story the other day insinuating the Knicks were behind a KP smear campaign. I wouldn't put that past Dolan (I do not think the FO would do that)

Vmart wrote:

Chandler wrote:Sobering thought:

Nola which had Jrue and Randle and AD won 33 games. Do we really think we'll win more than that? We won the right to a crappier draft pick -- that's about it

time to clean house

Our FO was supposed to make the team a destination: instead we're cheering no toxic signings and they're all tradeable. (Of course anyone could have just signed them but didn't; our logic is someone would prefer to trade than buy as if this is a big thing...) (BTW I am glad we didn't sign KD or KI just noting the fallacy). Last year Casey, Budenholzer and Clifford were available; we scored Fizzle whose best asset at this point may be his wife

Our charismatic Coach alienated KP (who certainly deserves blame as well), demoralized Frank, and got Mud's shooting % up (anyone hearing anything other than crickets about Mud); our prized lottery pick looked studly in Summer League but once coach go a hold of him he turned into a lost soul, chucking shots and losing his man on D.

Our passing got worse, our defense got worse. Anyone remember Mill's words at his opening press conference saying how the team was going to pass to get a better shot, play D. Mills never sent that memo to CS apparently

This year will be different though -- just wait until the secret plan is unveiled

I need a drink. Man you hit the nail on the head. Most won’t agree with you but they try and find good in every move the Knicks make even when it’s blatantly the worst move. They need a new coach badly preferably and Ex NBA player that know the real ropes of NBA basketball. This team needs to concentrate on player development. The only way for FAs to consider NY as a destination is to make sure your young players become star players and stir the NBA pot. Unfortunately Mr. I want LeBron to walk through the door is not going to get it done.

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Chandler wrote:Sobering thought:

Nola which had Jrue and Randle and AD won 33 games. Do we really think we'll win more than that? We won the right to a crappier draft pick -- that's about it

time to clean house

Our FO was supposed to make the team a destination: instead we're cheering no toxic signings and they're all tradeable. (Of course anyone could have just signed them but didn't; our logic is someone would prefer to trade than buy as if this is a big thing...) (BTW I am glad we didn't sign KD or KI just noting the fallacy). Last year Casey, Budenholzer and Clifford were available; we scored Fizzle whose best asset at this point may be his wife

Our charismatic Coach alienated KP (who certainly deserves blame as well), demoralized Frank, and got Mud's shooting % up (anyone hearing anything other than crickets about Mud); our prized lottery pick looked studly in Summer League but once coach go a hold of him he turned into a lost soul, chucking shots and losing his man on D.

Our passing got worse, our defense got worse. Anyone remember Mill's words at his opening press conference saying how the team was going to pass to get a better shot, play D. Mills never sent that memo to CS apparently

This year will be different though -- just wait until the secret plan is unveiled

I need a drink. Man you hit the nail on the head. Most won’t agree with you but they try and find good in every move the Knicks make even when it’s blatantly the worst move. They need a new coach badly preferably and Ex NBA player that know the real ropes of NBA basketball. This team needs to concentrate on player development. The only way for FAs to consider NY as a destination is to make sure your young players become star players and stir the NBA pot. Unfortunately Mr. I want LeBron to walk through the door is not going to get it done.

I am going to push back on the need for a former nba player to be the head guy. Where is this coming from? The coach of the year never played a minute of nba ball. The coach that just won the championship never played a minute of nba ball. Pop, Spo, Quin, Brad etc didn't play in the nba and are some of the best coaches in the league.

The Knicks need to get a known developer of young players. Fizz doesn’t have that record. Mark Jackson has a pretty good record with development. The Knicks need to quickly cut bait with Fizz as his role for which he was hired has been fulfilled in Knicks history.

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Chandler wrote:Sobering thought:

Nola which had Jrue and Randle and AD won 33 games. Do we really think we'll win more than that? We won the right to a crappier draft pick -- that's about it

time to clean house

Our FO was supposed to make the team a destination: instead we're cheering no toxic signings and they're all tradeable. (Of course anyone could have just signed them but didn't; our logic is someone would prefer to trade than buy as if this is a big thing...) (BTW I am glad we didn't sign KD or KI just noting the fallacy). Last year Casey, Budenholzer and Clifford were available; we scored Fizzle whose best asset at this point may be his wife

Our charismatic Coach alienated KP (who certainly deserves blame as well), demoralized Frank, and got Mud's shooting % up (anyone hearing anything other than crickets about Mud); our prized lottery pick looked studly in Summer League but once coach go a hold of him he turned into a lost soul, chucking shots and losing his man on D.

Our passing got worse, our defense got worse. Anyone remember Mill's words at his opening press conference saying how the team was going to pass to get a better shot, play D. Mills never sent that memo to CS apparently

This year will be different though -- just wait until the secret plan is unveiled

I need a drink. Man you hit the nail on the head. Most won’t agree with you but they try and find good in every move the Knicks make even when it’s blatantly the worst move. They need a new coach badly preferably and Ex NBA player that know the real ropes of NBA basketball. This team needs to concentrate on player development. The only way for FAs to consider NY as a destination is to make sure your young players become star players and stir the NBA pot. Unfortunately Mr. I want LeBron to walk through the door is not going to get it done.

I am going to push back on the need for a former nba player to be the head guy. Where is this coming from? The coach of the year never played a minute of nba ball. The coach that just won the championship never played a minute of nba ball. Pop, Spo, Quin, Brad etc didn't play in the nba and are some of the best coaches in the league.

The Knicks need to get a known developer of young players. Fizz doesn’t have that record. Mark Jackson has a pretty good record with development. The Knicks need to quickly cut bait with Fizz as his role for which he was hired has been fulfilled in Knicks history.

So it isn't about his not having been an nba player. Seems like you are trying to find something to hold against him. He needs to prove himself this year. MJax is one of my favorite players. I wanted him to get the Knick job when Walsh hired Dantoni. I don't know if he is the guy anymore if the Knicks move on from Fiz. I do think that he will always be available because no one is hiring him.

I don’t Mind someone who hasn’t played NBA but has experience with young players and teaching them and developing the right habits to be their best. JVG was one of my favorite coaches who didn’t have NBA experience. But I knew JVG was not a developer of young talent. His record is pretty lame for youth development. Fizdale to me is just a bad coach let’s face it there really is nothing he gave you last season to hand you hat on. Poor defense, Offensive game plan well there really was none.

There were numerous articles out that said Fizdale was hired with 2019 in mind. He was hired to draw big free agents well we all saw how that ended up. He was hired to sooth things over with KP well you know how that turned out. Fix dale is on record saying he wants better players, I don’t know if that is good for developing players. To me coach coaches no matter who he has.