it’s not clear-cut one way or the other. u can make a valid case either way so choose your poison. personally i think we’ll pay a king’s f’g ransom and it isn‘t worth it. make the best signings with cap space that u can. hold on to barrett, knox, mitch, frank, dsj et al and don’t make the blunder (imo) of flipping a hi-potential deep corp of youth for one player who may or may not stay on the court.

Marv wrote:listen. no one’s suggesting mitch = ad. it’s how much in total u’re giving up.

it’s not clear-cut one way or the other. u can make a valid case either way so choose your poison. personally i think we’ll pay a king’s f’g ransom and it isn‘t worth it. make the best signings with cap space that u can. hold on to barrett, knox, mitch, frank, dsj et al and don’t make the blunder (imo) of flipping a hi-potential deep corp of youth for one player who may or may not stay on the court.

Look, money talks. MRob is a golden contract for a team like NO. Low cost, low risk, high reward - instant fan favorite. The disinformation campaign that NO isn't interested in our players is either a diversion or a NO management that is seriously missing the boat.

Barrett, who complements Williamson, and MR are the cornerstones of an AD trade. Reroute the Dallas picks and add 2 other kids of their choice and its a wrap. They get talent, economy, picks, and cost-control. If the Knicks have to they can take Hill off their books as well saving them even more money.

Boston is going to want to dump Hayward's salary.

LA wants to dump some mediocre rotation players.

Maybe Houston, OKC, Portland, or a mystery suitor will jump in but the Knicks shouldn't pay much more than described. Otherwise cut bait.

Boston? Davis’s father told ESPN in February that he wouldn’t want his son playing for the Celtics, and Paul confirms that he has warned off Boston management.

“They can trade for him, but it’ll be for one year,” Paul says. “I mean: If the Celtics traded for Anthony Davis, we would go there and we would abide by our contractual [obligations] and we would go into free agency in 2020. I’ve stated that to them. But in the event that he decides to walk away and you give away assets? Don’t blame Rich Paul.”

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:I love Knick fans.

Mitchell Robinson is divine and he's perfect right now.

AD is 26 and a top 5 player and a two way player. If Barrett and Robinson are key pieces for AD so be it. While it would hurt to say goodbye to the young talent it would cost us that would quickly be mitigated when you see AD in a Knick uni.

Agreed..We love our players until we dont!

I think AD is coming. I think NO doesnt want to deal w/ Lakers and getting Barrett has real appeal. I also think Knicks are working from a position of strength so we will see how it pans out. AD is unreal. He's 26.

Imagine they trade AD, sign Kawhi/Rubio
PG Rubio
SG Dotson
SF Kawhi
PF AD
C Luke Kornet (yea! I said it!)
Bench: Frank, Trier, Jenkins... whatever

Even if you whiff on Kawhi and put Butler or Middleton in there the Knicks are still looking GREAT. You have a hell of a good team all our future picks to work with.

I think its something Knick fans should start emotionally preparing for. Good chance AD is a Knicks after the draft

Dont believe that team can get out of the East.

we won 15 games last year... We are shooting for finals or bust? Surely the Kawhi version could (admitted unlikely) but the key is a real trajectory. The above leaves us a pretty good starting point and doesnt rob us of all our future assets (in fact we still have all our FRPs + a Dallas pick)

Would take several seasons just to build a team that could make the finals, let alone win. If we are going for 2 stars, it shouldn't' be at the expense of the youth movement. Especially what we are giving up in a top 3 pick.

If we're going to scrap the bulk of the team's current youth movement, it should be to add a third star, if possible. We have a way of getting two stars, cap room.

To me its like selling your nice car to cover a bet, when you have a stack of chips in your pocket. Would like to see Perry spend the cap room first, before possibly giving up the yoots.

yea but you didnt really talk hoops there.

Why would it take several seasons?

And you are NOT "scrapping the team's youth movement" you are consolidating it into one 26 year old youth movement who is a proven star and elite player.

Mitchell Robinson hit 3 jump shots last year. RJ Barrett is just as easily the next Hood or Exum as he is Derozan.

The point is simple... there is only one downside to an AD deal. Literally only one. That downside is the cost prohibits you so much that you put a ceiling on what you can accomplish with AD here.

A package of Knox/DSjr/Mitch/Lance + 2 FRPs (#3 2019 and the next one they choose) is my offer. Thats a load of young talent, a future pick and some cap relief for NO as we take less back.

The leaves me with
AD
Frank/Dotson/Trier/Jenkins/Garret
about $60mm in cap space
All our future FRPs + 2 from Dallas -1 from AD trade.

I mean how is that not exactly where you want to be?

Now I think NO would be stupid not to take pick #4, Kuzma, Ingram, Ball+ whatever vs. the Knick package but politics play a role.

Not talking hoops? If you want me to be more precise. Will take years to build a good team around those players. The team you have left for these stars is garbage. Would make it easier for defenses to key on them, knowing the rest of the team wont do caca. One player isnt a youth movement, its an anomaly.

It will take years to put a contending team around those two max players. Our young players will get better, those retreads you are pinning our championship hopes on will only get older. We have enough room for two stars. Davis isnt the last star who will be available. Gutting the team for him when we dont have to is what every past Knicks GM would have done. Desperation move.

How many years? Who are you giving up that says "I just cant part with this player/asset if I want to build a champion"

Watching these finals if AD was on the floor he would be one of the best 2 players on the court. If you want to argue KD/Kawhi who in the NBA is better to build a team around? Giannis? After that?

This isnt Melo.

This is KG.

You are talking about a chance to get the most coveted asset and the hardest to acquire. So far your argument against it isnt compelling so far.

Spot on with your analysis...Most Knick fans tend to overrate our home grown talent, I'm not one of them. Outside of Mitchell who still has to improve miraculous on the offensive end, it doesn't look like we are trading any allstar level talent.

None of the guys we are trading, at this point in their careers, are better than the youth we gave up for Melo, and AD is much better than Melo. And Younger!!! Melo was an offensive allstar, AD is an all time player on both ends of the court! Did you watch him in last years playoffs when they knocked off Portland? AD averaged 30 per!!! And he entered the draft as a defensive player!

Again, I like Barrett and think he has the potential to be a really good player in this league, but none of the guys we would be trading have the potential to be anywhere near as good as AD. With AD, we will still have a young team and in your proposed deal, we still have a ton of money under the cap!! I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

No way were the players we sent for Melo was more talented than what they're asking for AD. Wow. Gallo was hurt before he was even drafted, has spent most of his career missing a massive amount if games. Chandler was talented, but more than happy to be a role player. We overvalue our picks, we also undervalue them as well.

Which one of our young players, Today, is better than Gallo (16pts and 4rbs at the time of the trade) when we traded him for Melo? Gallo wasn't great by any means, but at the time he was a much better player than Knox. Robinson has great potential, but he ain't better than Gallo at this point. I remember Knick fans going ballistic when we traded away the massive potential of Mozgov. How did that potential pan out?

Speaking of injury, DSJ was tore his acl before he was drafted too. Missed time due to back issues. You keep talking about fearing AD will go down with an injury, well, what about DSJ?! Robinson has a more slight build than AD! Is he more likely to get injured than AD? Robinson missed a lot of time due to a foot injury as well. Is he injury prone too? Frank missed damn-near half the season due to injury.

I get that you are hesitant to trade some of our youth for AD, especially considering what happened to this franchise with the Melo trade. But this dude is on another level than Melo, he's 26, and the youth we would be shipping out don't appear to be game changers. If we don't pull the trigger, and miss out on AD, 2 yrs down the road, we will be compiling assets in search of another AD which more than likely, wont be available.

When all time great players become available, and they WANT to come to your team, you move heaven and earth to make it happen. I know its not apart of the plan Perry and Mills laid forth last summer, but who plans that a disgruntled all time talent is all of sudden going to force his way off of the franchise! Fortunately, we were somewhat prepared with cap space and some young players. If we get AD, we still have money to attract FA's.

Gallo was injury prone, to say the least. More of a risk than DSJr. He has an extra tendon in his knee that gives him a recuperative ability that Gallo doesnt have. Believe Mitch has a much better feel for the game than Mosgov, almost martial arts like. Believe Knox/DSJr/Mitch/Barrett, are talented enough to make the all star game down the road. Doesnt mean they will get there of course, but my eye test tells me that the talent is there. Only way I want to trade these players is if know we're getting three stars back after all is said and done.

DAvid Lee made an all star game. Your over evaluate the talent on the Knicks and grossly underestimate AD. That is really the bottom line and the basis of your whole view point.

Knicks havent had player of AD's caliber since Ewing, but yea... Knox/DSjr/Mitch/Barrett will get us there. That is cool but its emotionally based. I am guessing our FO will feel differently. We will see.

Who said the players I named will alone get us there? That would be you. I said that if we are to trade our young core, it should be to add a third star, to build a big three. Two stars and the young core was what I said would be ideal. Dont know where you pulled that from.

David Lee became a good player, after he left NY, when he decided to finally start playing D. I see 4 players with the talent to be stars. AD is a great player, still not worth what the Pelicans will want.

Im not the one willing to flush some very promising players and a whole lotta first round picks for one player on a one year rental. Thats "emotionally based". The need to drop everything and sign AD whatever the cost. Thats where the Knicks have made their biggest mistakes. Perry has shown he can be patient when he needs to be, its served him well in the past.

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smackeddog wrote:

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fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:I love Knick fans.

Mitchell Robinson is divine and he's perfect right now.

AD is 26 and a top 5 player and a two way player. If Barrett and Robinson are key pieces for AD so be it. While it would hurt to say goodbye to the young talent it would cost us that would quickly be mitigated when you see AD in a Knick uni.

Agreed..We love our players until we dont!

I think AD is coming. I think NO doesnt want to deal w/ Lakers and getting Barrett has real appeal. I also think Knicks are working from a position of strength so we will see how it pans out. AD is unreal. He's 26.

Imagine they trade AD, sign Kawhi/Rubio
PG Rubio
SG Dotson
SF Kawhi
PF AD
C Luke Kornet (yea! I said it!)
Bench: Frank, Trier, Jenkins... whatever

Even if you whiff on Kawhi and put Butler or Middleton in there the Knicks are still looking GREAT. You have a hell of a good team all our future picks to work with.

I think its something Knick fans should start emotionally preparing for. Good chance AD is a Knicks after the draft

Dont believe that team can get out of the East.

we won 15 games last year... We are shooting for finals or bust? Surely the Kawhi version could (admitted unlikely) but the key is a real trajectory. The above leaves us a pretty good starting point and doesnt rob us of all our future assets (in fact we still have all our FRPs + a Dallas pick)

Would take several seasons just to build a team that could make the finals, let alone win. If we are going for 2 stars, it shouldn't' be at the expense of the youth movement. Especially what we are giving up in a top 3 pick.

If we're going to scrap the bulk of the team's current youth movement, it should be to add a third star, if possible. We have a way of getting two stars, cap room.

To me its like selling your nice car to cover a bet, when you have a stack of chips in your pocket. Would like to see Perry spend the cap room first, before possibly giving up the yoots.

yea but you didnt really talk hoops there.

Why would it take several seasons?

And you are NOT "scrapping the team's youth movement" you are consolidating it into one 26 year old youth movement who is a proven star and elite player.

Mitchell Robinson hit 3 jump shots last year. RJ Barrett is just as easily the next Hood or Exum as he is Derozan.

The point is simple... there is only one downside to an AD deal. Literally only one. That downside is the cost prohibits you so much that you put a ceiling on what you can accomplish with AD here.

A package of Knox/DSjr/Mitch/Lance + 2 FRPs (#3 2019 and the next one they choose) is my offer. Thats a load of young talent, a future pick and some cap relief for NO as we take less back.

The leaves me with
AD
Frank/Dotson/Trier/Jenkins/Garret
about $60mm in cap space
All our future FRPs + 2 from Dallas -1 from AD trade.

I mean how is that not exactly where you want to be?

Now I think NO would be stupid not to take pick #4, Kuzma, Ingram, Ball+ whatever vs. the Knick package but politics play a role.

Not talking hoops? If you want me to be more precise. Will take years to build a good team around those players. The team you have left for these stars is garbage. Would make it easier for defenses to key on them, knowing the rest of the team wont do caca. One player isnt a youth movement, its an anomaly.

It will take years to put a contending team around those two max players. Our young players will get better, those retreads you are pinning our championship hopes on will only get older. We have enough room for two stars. Davis isnt the last star who will be available. Gutting the team for him when we dont have to is what every past Knicks GM would have done. Desperation move.

How many years? Who are you giving up that says "I just cant part with this player/asset if I want to build a champion"

Watching these finals if AD was on the floor he would be one of the best 2 players on the court. If you want to argue KD/Kawhi who in the NBA is better to build a team around? Giannis? After that?

This isnt Melo.

This is KG.

You are talking about a chance to get the most coveted asset and the hardest to acquire. So far your argument against it isnt compelling so far.

Spot on with your analysis...Most Knick fans tend to overrate our home grown talent, I'm not one of them. Outside of Mitchell who still has to improve miraculous on the offensive end, it doesn't look like we are trading any allstar level talent.

None of the guys we are trading, at this point in their careers, are better than the youth we gave up for Melo, and AD is much better than Melo. And Younger!!! Melo was an offensive allstar, AD is an all time player on both ends of the court! Did you watch him in last years playoffs when they knocked off Portland? AD averaged 30 per!!! And he entered the draft as a defensive player!

Again, I like Barrett and think he has the potential to be a really good player in this league, but none of the guys we would be trading have the potential to be anywhere near as good as AD. With AD, we will still have a young team and in your proposed deal, we still have a ton of money under the cap!! I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

No way were the players we sent for Melo was more talented than what they're asking for AD. Wow. Gallo was hurt before he was even drafted, has spent most of his career missing a massive amount if games. Chandler was talented, but more than happy to be a role player. We overvalue our picks, we also undervalue them as well.

Which one of our young players, Today, is better than Gallo (16pts and 4rbs at the time of the trade) when we traded him for Melo? Gallo wasn't great by any means, but at the time he was a much better player than Knox. Robinson has great potential, but he ain't better than Gallo at this point. I remember Knick fans going ballistic when we traded away the massive potential of Mozgov. How did that potential pan out?

Speaking of injury, DSJ was tore his acl before he was drafted too. Missed time due to back issues. You keep talking about fearing AD will go down with an injury, well, what about DSJ?! Robinson has a more slight build than AD! Is he more likely to get injured than AD? Robinson missed a lot of time due to a foot injury as well. Is he injury prone too? Frank missed damn-near half the season due to injury.

I get that you are hesitant to trade some of our youth for AD, especially considering what happened to this franchise with the Melo trade. But this dude is on another level than Melo, he's 26, and the youth we would be shipping out don't appear to be game changers. If we don't pull the trigger, and miss out on AD, 2 yrs down the road, we will be compiling assets in search of another AD which more than likely, wont be available.

When all time great players become available, and they WANT to come to your team, you move heaven and earth to make it happen. I know its not apart of the plan Perry and Mills laid forth last summer, but who plans that a disgruntled all time talent is all of sudden going to force his way off of the franchise! Fortunately, we were somewhat prepared with cap space and some young players. If we get AD, we still have money to attract FA's.

Gallo was injury prone, to say the least. More of a risk than DSJr. He has an extra tendon in his knee that gives him a recuperative ability that Gallo doesnt have. Believe Mitch has a much better feel for the game than Mosgov, almost martial arts like. Believe Knox/DSJr/Mitch/Barrett, are talented enough to make the all star game down the road. Doesnt mean they will get there of course, but my eye test tells me that the talent is there. Only way I want to trade these players is if know we're getting three stars back after all is said and done.

DAvid Lee made an all star game. Your over evaluate the talent on the Knicks and grossly underestimate AD. That is really the bottom line and the basis of your whole view point.

Knicks havent had player of AD's caliber since Ewing, but yea... Knox/DSjr/Mitch/Barrett will get us there. That is cool but its emotionally based. I am guessing our FO will feel differently. We will see.

AD had a better roster than we would have in NY and did nothing. He would be a great second star but without a top flight orchestrator he will deliver nothing but empty numbers. He is a C/PF tweener. In this league that is basically bottom of the barrell in positional value. Would I sign him as a FA? Sure, but im not giving assets for him. I can't think of one trade since they changed the cap rules where the team gutting their roster for a superstar has worked out.
I believe our front office for the first time is smart enough not to overpay. I hope I'm right.