CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Are we all serious to believe Frank's groin is keeping him out this long? Even if he returns this weekend --- something smells very fishy to me.

Theory I've been bouncing around in my head is that Frank or his representation requested a trade (maybe during or after the KP situation unfolded).

It's possible management was afraid of the look of both KP and Frank asking out and in response the Knick's play hardball (bench him for a long time) and look to move him in the summer.

I just can't buy the timeline for this injury and don't put anything past the Knicks. Watching both DSJ and Mudiay over a longer period --- makes me doubt either is a better long term PG vs. Frank.

Thoughts?

Under the new Chris Bosh Rule under the current CBA, if a player and his representation have a conflict over an issue of health with their respective franchise, the player and his agent can petition for a review from a league approved medical panel outside of the bounds of said individual franchise.

It's a safeguard designed to prevent what amounts to insurance fraud ( Consider how much insurance is needed in all aspects of running a franchise, the NBA as a whole does not want to go to war with the insurance industry in general) and a backdoor way for teams to convert cap hold dollars into real dollars ( Player X counts against the cap, but insurance is paying out a chunk of the actual cash hit, allowing team to hit the salary floor but not paying cash that equalizes to the salary floor)

Frank N and his agent obviously want to do well for his next contract. This needs to happen by way of doing well on another team that has his Bird Rights. Which means a trade and means the sooner the better. Accepting a fake injury means no non Knicks team will want to trade for him.

There is no reason for the Knicks to **** with him like this ( Chris Bosh Rule)

There is no reason for Frank N to accept this kind of scenario you present, it only hurts him.

He's injured enough to keep him out.

If the Knicks truly wanted him gone, they'd have sent him out in the Zinger deal ( Carlisle and Donnie Nelson both really like Frank N in general) He's in his 2nd year, there's no pressure to move him now on the Knicks side.

I thought Dallas had a lot of interest in Frank, especially at the 2017 draft. After the KP trade I listened to a podcast with the guy that writes about the Mavs for The Athletic. He said the Mavs had no interest in Frank. I think Frank has been mentioned in a Tim for Matthews deal prior to the KP trade.

Just don't believe it, or maybe how it is reported. When the trade went down the Mavs had plenty of salary exchange cushion to, for example, take on Frank instead of Burke, and any franchise I would assume would have wanted that asset (Frank over Trey). Would Mavs want Frank over Doncic as a lead guard? Obviously not. But I just don't believe that they would have turned down such a scenario.

Maybe they didn't want Frank included at the expense of giving up extra picks or something but the flat denial of wanting Frank in general makes zero sense.

Lots of context and grey area there

I was surprised. The writer is Tim Cato. He seems like a pretty informed guy and is around the Mavs. There wasn't any malice in what he said. I think the proposed trade was Tim and Frank for Wesley Matthews. He said the interest was on the Knicks end.

OH, if that is the context, that makes sense, right?

They would have had Doncic, DSJr, Devin Harris, injury Barea, and Jalon Brunson on their roster..... it makes sense they that wouldn't want to add ANOTHER PG.

The interest was to get rid of THJr, so that makes sense.

CrushAlot wrote:On the film School pod Macri said that to get two max slots the Knicks can't bring back both Trier and Dot on their current contracts if they bring Frank back. Not a ton of detail was given and he did say the Knicks could bring both guys back with Frank but it would be more complicated.

This is accurate. As of today, to get the space for the 2 maxes (1 10+ year and a 7-9 year max), you have to release or terminate all available contracts leaving Knox, Mitch, DSJr, Frank, min roster charges, Noah's holdover, LT's $1M, and 2019 first round pick expected salary $8+M. Trier is on books for $3.5M and Dot is at $1.6M.

Noah's stretched $6M makes a HUGE difference if you wanna keep all the young kids.

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Bottom line Knicks are dicking around with Frank....

That really makes no sense on multiple levels.

Frank N is passively trying to get traded. What he is doing is common in Euro-Ball, where he has experience. He would simply be more aggressive on another team.

Trier, Knox and MRob have been pushed way too far and too hard for rookies at their current level. But the Knicks have super limited options given injury/trade/gutted roster. Putting Frank N on the shelf means the minutes have to go somewhere. Overexposing the Knicks recent guys from the past draft class only risks injuring them.

Frank N is in his 2nd year. His trade value is in his cost control and potential as a wing defender. The ability to guard the wing at a potential elite level is actually pretty rare in the modern NBA. One of the other issues is he's going to need a consistent three to have value and the ball simply is not moving on this team. He can't create his own shot and he needs a true free flowing offense to help him get clean looks.

His footwork is very good and that generally bodes well for upside in helping a little of everything else. His shot could use help but it's not beyond repair ( its not like young Jason Kidd, who was a ****ing atrocious level shooter)

There are too many built in safeguards to prevent teams and players from taking advantage of injuries or phantom injuries. (Which makes the Leonard and Spurs situation so bizarre) Going to war with Frank N means going to war with CAA and Leon Rose. Which has interests in other things associated with Dolan and his family. And has interests in things vested within the league itself and the brands and networks. There is literally no incentive to do this.

I'm not saying Frank is a legit PG or that he has played as well as I'd/we had hoped --- I just think he is getting some odd treatment from the front office (Knick's Knicking) -- his groin would have to be off the bone to be out six weeks (it's laughable really) --- somebody find me 2 other cases where a groin injury kept an NBA player out 6 weeks.

It is possible Frank has gone behind the scenes (as I noted in my original post) and requested a trade (per your passive comment) but I just don't buy he is injured still --- hoping I am wrong and he is back soon.

Out a month, 5 weeks?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1078386738828140545

I did say 6-weeks and come on man Lebron is 34 -- Frank is what 20? Are you that blind or that much of a homer that you really believe the kid is still hurt?

Fizdale is not crazy .. Frank & Trier would had won a few games after the trade-deadline putting our record tied with the Bulls or Hawks right now.

wargames wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:On the film School pod Macri said that to get two max slots the Knicks can't bring back both Trier and Dot on their current contracts if they bring Frank back. Not a ton of detail was given and he did say the Knicks could bring both guys back with Frank but it would be more complicated.

This is accurate. As of today, to get the space for the 2 maxes (1 10+ year and a 7-9 year max), you have to release or terminate all available contracts leaving Knox, Mitch, DSJr, Frank, min roster charges, Noah's holdover, LT's $1M, and 2019 first round pick expected salary $8+M. Trier is on books for $3.5M and Dot is at $1.6M.

Noah's stretched $6M makes a HUGE difference if you wanna keep all the young kids.

That’s barely a roster to add two players too. Like none of these guys make 10 mil a year but we got to cut the roster salary to the bone like that for space..... That is ridiculous. How the hell are the Clippers making room for two maxes?

I don't know Gallo alone is equal to Frank, Knox, DSJ, Trier, Dotson, and Mitch. However it makes me wonder if we could of used Noah in the deal with Porzingis and given up the 2nd first rounder. Maybe Traded Frank to dump Hardaway Jr or Lee. The more I look at this unless we get very lucky in the draft why would any star want to play with this roster. Its not like we can add a mid level exception player as well to the roster. Even with 2 stars this team won't compete for a championship next season we will have to wait till 2020-21 when we add a piece with the mid level to have a good shot.

93BUICK wrote:I am still as pro Frank as I was when he was drafted.
There's a few negatives that I think are stupid narratives-
1: He's Phil's guy - WHO CARES that shouldn't be a negative.
2: We've seen enough- HE'S TWENTY - he was ahead of his age in Europe. He's the same age as a college player still. His bad year this year amongst a 4 PG tryout w DSjr,Mudiay,and Trey Burke with no system or line up consistency- is totally opposite his skill set within an organized set team. When we have that kind of team he will be an amazing piece.
3: He can't break down the D Handle the ball shoot well enough to be a PG - That's true. He should not be a PG. He would be a good complimentary guard w DSjr or Kyrie - he would still have to improve handle drive and shot, but he can pass and is smart, and will defend the other team's dominant guard for the PG. DSjr already went out of his way to say he wanted to play w Frank. He can hit the open 3 in a well timed offensive system and move the ball to shooters or lobs to Mitch -that's a perfect compliment if we do land a great scorer like KD.
4: It's 7 million on the cap : That part is rough. I really hope we don't starphuck him out of here. KD if you're listening please tell them to keep Frank.
5: He doesn't fit- Because we suck. He's the opposite of a bad team good stats guy. He's not going to be Chauncey liked we may have hoped but if he's Bruce Bowen you keep him- and he will be cheap and help you win. Classic bad move to let go of early. Wrong time to worry about his poor performance this year.

When every team is scoring over 100 pts as an average, I don't see how an NBA team can have a Bruce Bowen type player. True, you still need to play defense, but if you can't score, you won't play.

Frank had the biggest chance for all stardom and being a bust.

We've seen flashes of the stellar play he can provide - clutch shooting and superb defense.

But overall, his body of work has been a HUGE disappointment and I don't know how the FO can't have misgivings and questions about his long term future with the club and in the NBA. Perhaps they turned down trades at the deadline because they still have hope, or maybe our FO wants to hold him till the off season in case we have to jettison players like DSjr & Mudiay and they want depth at the PG spot.

Time for Frankie to turn it up Year three has started already for him. I would highly recommend Frank to get the F’ away from the Knicks training facility and practice with players that make difference in the NBA. He will learn nothing from the morons on the Knicks staff.

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:Frank has no stamina to maintain any level of consistency. I don’t know what he was doing in the off season but he clearly needs to work in his leg strength and upper body strength to keep better form on his jumpers. It’s time for the Knicks to dial up H2O and teach this cat how to shoot with form and for goodness sakes stop him from guiding and aiming the damn ball when shooting. Watching Frank shoot is a nightmare. There are kids who shoot it better and with better form.

Time for Frankie to turn it up Year three has started already for him. I would highly recommend Frank to get the F’ away from the Knicks training facility and practice with players that make difference in the NBA. He will learn nothing from the morons on the Knicks staff.

G-league development (and staff) has been for the last few years, the only consistent bright spot for the franchise. Still time to send Frank there to rehab. Hasnt played well enough since being drafted, to have that option dismissed.

Unfortunately the Knicks view G league as a place where if you send first round picks they are devalued. I don’t recall the Knicks sending any first round pick to the G league. Management is never willing to admit they screwed up on a pick. So they try to protect themselves by keeping the player in the NBA even if the G league might prove their pick right.

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:Frank has no stamina to maintain any level of consistency. I don’t know what he was doing in the off season but he clearly needs to work in his leg strength and upper body strength to keep better form on his jumpers. It’s time for the Knicks to dial up H2O and teach this cat how to shoot with form and for goodness sakes stop him from guiding and aiming the damn ball when shooting. Watching Frank shoot is a nightmare. There are kids who shoot it better and with better form.

Time for Frankie to turn it up Year three has started already for him. I would highly recommend Frank to get the F’ away from the Knicks training facility and practice with players that make difference in the NBA. He will learn nothing from the morons on the Knicks staff.

G-league development (and staff) has been for the last few years, the only consistent bright spot for the franchise. Still time to send Frank there to rehab. Hasnt played well enough since being drafted, to have that option dismissed.

Unfortunately the Knicks view G league as a place where if you send first round picks they are devalued. I don’t recall the Knicks sending any first round pick to the G league. Management is never willing to admit they screwed up on a pick. So they try to protect themselves by keeping the player in the NBA even if the G league might prove their pick right.

franco12 wrote:When every team is scoring over 100 pts as an average, I don't see how an NBA team can have a Bruce Bowen type player. True, you still need to play defense, but if you can't score, you won't play.

Not true. Scores are higher, sure. But the best teams are teams that can get stops. GSW has some of the best defensive players in the league. Houston took a step backwards when they got rid of their best defensive players. Frank does need to improve his offense, no question. But you're diminishing the things he can do well. Patrick Beverly scored zero points in the Clippers last game against OKC. Yet he had a plus +22 plus/minus and was arguably the game's MVP.