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meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
![]() GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. The more I read this train of thought the more it feels like a selective view of basketball to fit Trey Burke. Who brings the ball up the court is not and should not be the primary consideration in positionless basketball. The idea is not to have 5 interchangeable players, not at all.The idea is to have players who can switch in and out of different positions (not all 5 positions). Trey is fast, but has yet to show good decision making or creating offense through ball movement, creating passing lanes and cutting etc. The type of isolation drive and dish guard play you are advocating is possibly the exact opposite of positionless basketball. Here's one definition http://positionlessbasketball.com/ See any mention of being able to get past the defense by yourself? I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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GustavBahler
Posts: 42813 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
![]() meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. Getting the feeling that you werent paying attention to what I said. I was not talking about fast break situations. Thats really what "positionless" basketball is about. Read your own links. Talks about getting to an "early offense". Thats just another way of saying fast break bball. As I said repeatedly, thats not what Im talking about. Im talking about the situations (there will be plenty) when they play half court sets. Especially in the playoffs where the game slows down, for even the Warriors. In those situatations Id prefer it was someone who makes 1 through 5 on the defense have to divert some of their attention to the ball carrier. Because it also takes some of their attention off their assignment. Cant do that if they cant drive, finish, pass, shoot. Been saying on this board for years that players are getting taller, faster, to the point where guys like Giannis, Durant, Simmons, will be much more common. Positions have less meaning. Tried to differentiate between that, and Fizdale's system. Thats why I said upthread what my idea of positionless ball is. Think of SSOL. You dont see D'Antoni's teams running it every time his team brings the ball up the floor. Thats why Im saying that the PG position is still important, and the player best equipped to get past the first line of defense, to make things happen, should bring up the ball in those situations,whenever possible. |
Bizzy211
Posts: 20562 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 2/22/2004 Member: #601 USA |
![]() meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. I disagree with your assessment of Trey Burke. He was top notch the limited time he did play towards the end of the season. If he sustains that level of play, he'll be an all star. Trey did everything right and so little wrong. Last 11 Games of the Season:
Bizzy
Shadyville, NY
**soundcloud.com/Bizzy211**
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knicks1248
Posts: 42059 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #582 |
![]() Bizzy211 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems.
But people want frank to start.. ES
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StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/28/2012 Member: #4451 |
![]() knicks1248 wrote:Like I mentioned before its not as important who starts its who finishrs and Frank will always be in there to finish games because of his defense alone. He has shown more aggressiveness in the Summer League and so far in the first preseason game.Bizzy211 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. |
knicks1248
Posts: 42059 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #582 |
![]() StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Like I mentioned before its not as important who starts its who finishrs and Frank will always be in there to finish games because of his defense alone. He has shown more aggressiveness in the Summer League and so far in the first preseason game.Bizzy211 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems.
Fiz rotation is going to be interesting, i just hope he's not playing 10 to 12 guys a night ES
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StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/28/2012 Member: #4451 |
![]() knicks1248 wrote:he already said a lot guys are gonna play because of the up tempo style they are gonna play. Also he is gonna use diferente rotations. Thats why you shouldnt put too much stock in who starts. For example Fiz said he was really impressed with the group that started the 3rd quarter that i believe went on a 11-0 run which was franks groupStarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Like I mentioned before its not as important who starts its who finishrs and Frank will always be in there to finish games because of his defense alone. He has shown more aggressiveness in the Summer League and so far in the first preseason game.Bizzy211 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. |
BigDaddyG
Posts: 39896 Alba Posts: 9 Joined: 1/22/2010 Member: #3049 |
![]() StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Like I mentioned before its not as important who starts its who finishrs and Frank will always be in there to finish games because of his defense alone. He has shown more aggressiveness in the Summer League and so far in the first preseason game.Bizzy211 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. Agreed. Regardless of who starts, Trey proved he he should get starter-type minutes. Last year was too small a sample size to say he's a star. Personally, I think his percentage from long twos are unsustainable. But he forced his way into the lineup with his play last year and we should at least see if he can keep it up. Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right.
- The Tick
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knicks1248
Posts: 42059 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #582 |
![]() StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:he already said a lot guys are gonna play because of the up tempo style they are gonna play. Also he is gonna use diferente rotations. Thats why you shouldnt put too much stock in who starts. For example Fiz said he was really impressed with the group that started the 3rd quarter that i believe went on a 11-0 run which was franks groupStarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Like I mentioned before its not as important who starts its who finishrs and Frank will always be in there to finish games because of his defense alone. He has shown more aggressiveness in the Summer League and so far in the first preseason game.Bizzy211 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. no team in the league plays more than 10 guys, most play 9. You saw Fisher try to that and it was a utter mess. You will hardly every get consistency play if minutes are inconsistent. Burke was an such exception last season, that to me earned him the starting nod ES
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Nalod
Posts: 71170 Alba Posts: 155 Joined: 12/24/2003 Member: #508 USA |
![]() knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:he already said a lot guys are gonna play because of the up tempo style they are gonna play. Also he is gonna use diferente rotations. Thats why you shouldnt put too much stock in who starts. For example Fiz said he was really impressed with the group that started the 3rd quarter that i believe went on a 11-0 run which was franks groupStarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Like I mentioned before its not as important who starts its who finishrs and Frank will always be in there to finish games because of his defense alone. He has shown more aggressiveness in the Summer League and so far in the first preseason game.Bizzy211 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. Quiz: If its 8pm here, what time is it in London? |
StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/28/2012 Member: #4451 |
![]() knicks1248 wrote:I’m more excited about frank. Already a lockdown defender and I like how he is more aggressive and taking those open shots. i can’t want to see him Knox KP and Mitch together both offense belt and especially defensivelyStarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:he already said a lot guys are gonna play because of the up tempo style they are gonna play. Also he is gonna use diferente rotations. Thats why you shouldnt put too much stock in who starts. For example Fiz said he was really impressed with the group that started the 3rd quarter that i believe went on a 11-0 run which was franks groupStarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Like I mentioned before its not as important who starts its who finishrs and Frank will always be in there to finish games because of his defense alone. He has shown more aggressiveness in the Summer League and so far in the first preseason game.Bizzy211 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. |
Nalod
Posts: 71170 Alba Posts: 155 Joined: 12/24/2003 Member: #508 USA |
![]() StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:I’m more excited about frank. Already a lockdown defender and I like how he is more aggressive and taking those open shots. i can’t want to see him Knox KP and Mitch together both offense belt and especially defensivelyStarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:he already said a lot guys are gonna play because of the up tempo style they are gonna play. Also he is gonna use diferente rotations. Thats why you shouldnt put too much stock in who starts. For example Fiz said he was really impressed with the group that started the 3rd quarter that i believe went on a 11-0 run which was franks groupStarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Like I mentioned before its not as important who starts its who finishrs and Frank will always be in there to finish games because of his defense alone. He has shown more aggressiveness in the Summer League and so far in the first preseason game.Bizzy211 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. My take on frank's evolution I hope is on par with Olidipo who needed a few years to develop. Thus, I doubt he blows us away over the course of one summer. When he is on the floor good things happen. He deflects passes, disrupts the passing lane, and other small things that add up. He is still growing and I suspect we'll see a better frank, but its not gonna blow our minds. |
StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/28/2012 Member: #4451 |
![]() Nalod wrote:Oh i agree it will be a process but thats ok given our longterm plan. You hit the nail on the head when frank is in good things good things happen and are under control. Thats a big positive for such a young kid. His continued progression on offense will be good to watch over the next few yearsStarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:I’m more excited about frank. Already a lockdown defender and I like how he is more aggressive and taking those open shots. i can’t want to see him Knox KP and Mitch together both offense belt and especially defensivelyStarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:he already said a lot guys are gonna play because of the up tempo style they are gonna play. Also he is gonna use diferente rotations. Thats why you shouldnt put too much stock in who starts. For example Fiz said he was really impressed with the group that started the 3rd quarter that i believe went on a 11-0 run which was franks groupStarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Like I mentioned before its not as important who starts its who finishrs and Frank will always be in there to finish games because of his defense alone. He has shown more aggressiveness in the Summer League and so far in the first preseason game.Bizzy211 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. |
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
![]() GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. So you are focused on who should have the ball when positionless basketball grinds into a half court offense? That IMO fails to address the issue altogether. I would contend as players continue to become more versatile you will have less and less situations when this happens. The fact that it happens is failure to execute and that is the problem that needs to be addressed. Half court grind out offense is an entrenched system both among players and coaches and also clearly among fans as well. Positionless basketball won't happen overnight but the focus of teams trying to play it should not be on how best to revert back to halfcourt in playoff basketball, but rather on how to make the positionless game work in those scenarios. BTW - players are NOT getting taller, the average height in the NBA hasn't changed over 40 years (I read this just yesterday in a article). I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
![]() Bizzy211 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. Well - players are judged on advanced stats now and those aren't that good for him over the same sample of games. Win-Loss record 3-8 Focusing on points scored and assists and steals just doesn't cut it when the overall impact is net negative for the team. I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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GustavBahler
Posts: 42813 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
![]() meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. The problem is that they arent versatile enough to be interchangeable. Until Frank, Mudiay, Baker, can get to the rim, finish, its best IMO to have Burke as a starter because right now he is the most versatile. Id like the player bringing the ball up to be able to create space for his teammates because he is a legit threat to get to the rim. Thats the key to Fizdale's system right? Spacing. Burke has shown he can create space. Im not suggesting anything is permanent. Back to SSOL, D'Antoni needed certain kind of players to make things work. Didnt have the talent in NY to run it the way he really wanted. The same goes for the Triangle, have to make concessions to the talent on hand. Ive been seeing Burke getting the ball on the inbound, bringing up the ball, and setting up the offense. I dont hear or see any complaining from Fizdale. I dont see Fizdale complaining when someone grabs a board and hands Burke the ball. The reason is sometimes the defense is pressing, filling the passing lanes, the opportunity to immediately push the ball isnt there. Thats when you want the player with the best handle, and PG skills to have the ball. Right now thats Burke. Maybe down the road it will be someone else. |
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
![]() GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:If the coach says we play positionless ball, and who ever gets the ball goes, why are we hung up on this PG thing all the time? If the smallest guy is not elite shooting the 3 there are problems. Again I disagree Burke is the most versatile. Burke didn't play good defense and that is about 50% of the required versatility. None of our guards are very versatile, but Burke isn't better than everybody. I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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