Andrew wrote:Philly had a ton of cap space right? Did they just basically add Chandler in the off-season and strike out on any big time players?

They re-signed Redick, which was important to them (I think for $12mil). They lost 2 of their shooters though- Belinelli and Ilyasova, but I think they can easy replace them with some of the players available (Bjelica, Ellington etc)

TripleThreat wrote:NO rational team is going into the tax zone, deeper in the tax zone or deeper into the repeater zone for Courtney Lee.

TripleThreat wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Basically we are in a hopeless situation for the next 3 years until these contracts come off the books. The Knicks already squandered capitalizing on the Porzingis rookie deal. Ideally we would of been adding max free agents this off-season before paying Kristaps. This would of allowed us to maximize our assets. I'm not even sure what the best action is anymore. I think signing one max free agent keeps us in limbo, its not even worth doing. I think engaging boston for their lottery picks for Porzingis right now may make the most sense.

Well, to be fair, two different things here.

In terms of trading guys like Lee, Hardaway Jr, Noah, Lance Thomas and back end guys like Burke, Mudiay and such. The outlook appears to be

Courtney Lee/Tim Hardaway Jr - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are low ( Meaning a team is willing to value Lee at the opportunity cost of the cap space implied/ i.e. to them, he's worth a draft pick, it's cost controlled value AND the value of his remaining AAV instead of using that money in a buyers free agent market) to none. I say "low" because occasionally a team does make a poor market based decision. But the circumstances around it usually tell another tale ( Lakers signing Caldwell Pope before the market closed to save Rich Paul/Klutch's face to make LBJ happy is an example) They are also very rare.

Joaquim Noah - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are zero.

Lance Thomas - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are zero.

Mudiay/Burke - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are close to zero ( If other teams wanted them, they could have signed them for free earlier or traded for them for basically nothing)

In terms of the Knicks long term outlook, it depends on one's relative expectations.

Does it look like the Knicks will be a playoff team in the next two seasons? No
Does it look like the Knicks will be at a contender level status in the next five seasons? No

But can the Knicks put out a solid product on the floor - actual cohesive team basketball with guys playing hard, playing together as brothers should, and making every night a brutal grind for every non Knicks team? Yes, absolutely.

On the positive end, the team finally has a GM who actually trained to be a GM and a head coach trained to be a head coach. (How sad that is, that it took the Knicks this long to figure that out...)

Baby steps. The Knicks right now don't need to have huge eyes on some nutty lofty goal or bust mentality. Bill Parcells classically said, just start by beating the teams you are odds on supposed to beat. Don't think playoffs. Just go to war each game. Within each game, he'd say, we are going to not turnover the ball and we are going to not lose yardage on special teams.

The Knicks right now, the best goal is to just put a hard working team who plays in a way that respects the game itself, win or lose, night after night. This was the beauty of Linsanity. It was not going to be a playoff team. Or a team that contend. But sans Melo and STAT, they played together and played hard and played the right way. Fans, well most, could be proud of that.

I do not see the situation as hopeless. I see the situation as taking relative expectations and simply progressively aiming for the smaller things you can fix right now. Play disciplined true team free flowing basketball. That's the start. Doesn't matter the lineup, doesn't matter if you win or lose. Play the right way, good things will happen in time. Sometimes it's a long long ass time, but good thing will eventually happen.

Happy 4th to all.

We don’t need to trade Lance, he only has $1mil guaranteed after this season

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Basically we are in a hopeless situation for the next 3 years until these contracts come off the books. The Knicks already squandered capitalizing on the Porzingis rookie deal. Ideally we would of been adding max free agents this off-season before paying Kristaps. This would of allowed us to maximize our assets. I'm not even sure what the best action is anymore. I think signing one max free agent keeps us in limbo, its not even worth doing. I think engaging boston for their lottery picks for Porzingis right now may make the most sense.

Well, to be fair, two different things here.

In terms of trading guys like Lee, Hardaway Jr, Noah, Lance Thomas and back end guys like Burke, Mudiay and such. The outlook appears to be

Courtney Lee/Tim Hardaway Jr - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are low ( Meaning a team is willing to value Lee at the opportunity cost of the cap space implied/ i.e. to them, he's worth a draft pick, it's cost controlled value AND the value of his remaining AAV instead of using that money in a buyers free agent market) to none. I say "low" because occasionally a team does make a poor market based decision. But the circumstances around it usually tell another tale ( Lakers signing Caldwell Pope before the market closed to save Rich Paul/Klutch's face to make LBJ happy is an example) They are also very rare.

Joaquim Noah - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are zero.

Lance Thomas - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are zero.

Mudiay/Burke - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are close to zero ( If other teams wanted them, they could have signed them for free earlier or traded for them for basically nothing)

In terms of the Knicks long term outlook, it depends on one's relative expectations.

Does it look like the Knicks will be a playoff team in the next two seasons? No
Does it look like the Knicks will be at a contender level status in the next five seasons? No

But can the Knicks put out a solid product on the floor - actual cohesive team basketball with guys playing hard, playing together as brothers should, and making every night a brutal grind for every non Knicks team? Yes, absolutely.

On the positive end, the team finally has a GM who actually trained to be a GM and a head coach trained to be a head coach. (How sad that is, that it took the Knicks this long to figure that out...)

Baby steps. The Knicks right now don't need to have huge eyes on some nutty lofty goal or bust mentality. Bill Parcells classically said, just start by beating the teams you are odds on supposed to beat. Don't think playoffs. Just go to war each game. Within each game, he'd say, we are going to not turnover the ball and we are going to not lose yardage on special teams.

The Knicks right now, the best goal is to just put a hard working team who plays in a way that respects the game itself, win or lose, night after night. This was the beauty of Linsanity. It was not going to be a playoff team. Or a team that contend. But sans Melo and STAT, they played together and played hard and played the right way. Fans, well most, could be proud of that.

I do not see the situation as hopeless. I see the situation as taking relative expectations and simply progressively aiming for the smaller things you can fix right now. Play disciplined true team free flowing basketball. That's the start. Doesn't matter the lineup, doesn't matter if you win or lose. Play the right way, good things will happen in time. Sometimes it's a long long ass time, but good thing will eventually happen.

Happy 4th to all.

We don’t need to trade Lance, he only has $1mil guaranteed after this season

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Basically we are in a hopeless situation for the next 3 years until these contracts come off the books. The Knicks already squandered capitalizing on the Porzingis rookie deal. Ideally we would of been adding max free agents this off-season before paying Kristaps. This would of allowed us to maximize our assets. I'm not even sure what the best action is anymore. I think signing one max free agent keeps us in limbo, its not even worth doing. I think engaging boston for their lottery picks for Porzingis right now may make the most sense.

Well, to be fair, two different things here.

In terms of trading guys like Lee, Hardaway Jr, Noah, Lance Thomas and back end guys like Burke, Mudiay and such. The outlook appears to be

Courtney Lee/Tim Hardaway Jr - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are low ( Meaning a team is willing to value Lee at the opportunity cost of the cap space implied/ i.e. to them, he's worth a draft pick, it's cost controlled value AND the value of his remaining AAV instead of using that money in a buyers free agent market) to none. I say "low" because occasionally a team does make a poor market based decision. But the circumstances around it usually tell another tale ( Lakers signing Caldwell Pope before the market closed to save Rich Paul/Klutch's face to make LBJ happy is an example) They are also very rare.

Joaquim Noah - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are zero.

Lance Thomas - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are zero.

Mudiay/Burke - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are close to zero ( If other teams wanted them, they could have signed them for free earlier or traded for them for basically nothing)

In terms of the Knicks long term outlook, it depends on one's relative expectations.

Does it look like the Knicks will be a playoff team in the next two seasons? No
Does it look like the Knicks will be at a contender level status in the next five seasons? No

But can the Knicks put out a solid product on the floor - actual cohesive team basketball with guys playing hard, playing together as brothers should, and making every night a brutal grind for every non Knicks team? Yes, absolutely.

On the positive end, the team finally has a GM who actually trained to be a GM and a head coach trained to be a head coach. (How sad that is, that it took the Knicks this long to figure that out...)

Baby steps. The Knicks right now don't need to have huge eyes on some nutty lofty goal or bust mentality. Bill Parcells classically said, just start by beating the teams you are odds on supposed to beat. Don't think playoffs. Just go to war each game. Within each game, he'd say, we are going to not turnover the ball and we are going to not lose yardage on special teams.

The Knicks right now, the best goal is to just put a hard working team who plays in a way that respects the game itself, win or lose, night after night. This was the beauty of Linsanity. It was not going to be a playoff team. Or a team that contend. But sans Melo and STAT, they played together and played hard and played the right way. Fans, well most, could be proud of that.

I do not see the situation as hopeless. I see the situation as taking relative expectations and simply progressively aiming for the smaller things you can fix right now. Play disciplined true team free flowing basketball. That's the start. Doesn't matter the lineup, doesn't matter if you win or lose. Play the right way, good things will happen in time. Sometimes it's a long long ass time, but good thing will eventually happen.

Happy 4th to all.

We don’t need to trade Lance, he only has $1mil guaranteed after this season

Mudiay and Burke's deals are up after this year as well.

Burkes cap hold is basically nothing so I'd like to keep him as a bench piece. Mudiay is a goner

TripleThreat wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Basically we are in a hopeless situation for the next 3 years until these contracts come off the books. The Knicks already squandered capitalizing on the Porzingis rookie deal. Ideally we would of been adding max free agents this off-season before paying Kristaps. This would of allowed us to maximize our assets. I'm not even sure what the best action is anymore. I think signing one max free agent keeps us in limbo, its not even worth doing. I think engaging boston for their lottery picks for Porzingis right now may make the most sense.

Well, to be fair, two different things here.

In terms of trading guys like Lee, Hardaway Jr, Noah, Lance Thomas and back end guys like Burke, Mudiay and such. The outlook appears to be

Courtney Lee/Tim Hardaway Jr - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are low ( Meaning a team is willing to value Lee at the opportunity cost of the cap space implied/ i.e. to them, he's worth a draft pick, it's cost controlled value AND the value of his remaining AAV instead of using that money in a buyers free agent market) to none. I say "low" because occasionally a team does make a poor market based decision. But the circumstances around it usually tell another tale ( Lakers signing Caldwell Pope before the market closed to save Rich Paul/Klutch's face to make LBJ happy is an example) They are also very rare.

Joaquim Noah - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are zero.

Lance Thomas - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are zero.

Mudiay/Burke - Odds of trading for a "positive asset" are close to zero ( If other teams wanted them, they could have signed them for free earlier or traded for them for basically nothing)

In terms of the Knicks long term outlook, it depends on one's relative expectations.

Does it look like the Knicks will be a playoff team in the next two seasons? No
Does it look like the Knicks will be at a contender level status in the next five seasons? No

But can the Knicks put out a solid product on the floor - actual cohesive team basketball with guys playing hard, playing together as brothers should, and making every night a brutal grind for every non Knicks team? Yes, absolutely.

On the positive end, the team finally has a GM who actually trained to be a GM and a head coach trained to be a head coach. (How sad that is, that it took the Knicks this long to figure that out...)

Baby steps. The Knicks right now don't need to have huge eyes on some nutty lofty goal or bust mentality. Bill Parcells classically said, just start by beating the teams you are odds on supposed to beat. Don't think playoffs. Just go to war each game. Within each game, he'd say, we are going to not turnover the ball and we are going to not lose yardage on special teams.

The Knicks right now, the best goal is to just put a hard working team who plays in a way that respects the game itself, win or lose, night after night. This was the beauty of Linsanity. It was not going to be a playoff team. Or a team that contend. But sans Melo and STAT, they played together and played hard and played the right way. Fans, well most, could be proud of that.

I do not see the situation as hopeless. I see the situation as taking relative expectations and simply progressively aiming for the smaller things you can fix right now. Play disciplined true team free flowing basketball. That's the start. Doesn't matter the lineup, doesn't matter if you win or lose. Play the right way, good things will happen in time. Sometimes it's a long long ass time, but good thing will eventually happen.

Happy 4th to all.

Of course what usually happens is people make these bold proclamations and pound their chest and say "I told you so" if it comes to fruition, but conveniently never bring it up again and hope people forgot you ever said it if the Knicks make the playoffs. Or at minimum they use the "circumstances changed" excuse.

The bottom line did anybody predict Miami would win 44 games and make the playoffs last year on July 5th? Did anybody think Indy would actually get better without Paul George?

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Andrew wrote:Philly had a ton of cap space right? Did they just basically add Chandler in the off-season and strike out on any big time players?

They re-signed Redick, which was important to them (I think for $12mil). They lost 2 of their shooters though- Belinelli and Ilyasova, but I think they can easy replace them with some of the players available (Bjelica, Ellington etc)

Jerryd Bayless is sunk cost but an expirer. They do need all the shooters they can get, so I could see them trading Bayless for Courtney Lee depending on what they think of Zhaire Smith and the position he plays. I think we could get one of their younger players that don't get playing time like Justin Anderson, Timothe Luwawu and/or Furkan Korkmaz. I've seen a little of Justin Anderson with the Mavericks but the other two are mysteries. In any case, we have a lot of roster spots that need to be filled, so I'd be willing to audition them given how well the Sixers have drafted talent.

Philly has a finite number of years they can sign a big/max UFA just like the Knicks, and for Philly 2019 will be their last barring trade. In 2018 they had a shot and missed, and I think they will have 1 more shot in 2019.

So, just like the Knicks, would you want Lee's $13M on the roster as a "shooter" or would you want the cap space and a shot at a max guy?

Philly ain't trading for Lee. Just resigned Reddick and at last year's deadline were able to pick up Ilyasova and Belinelli - shooters. And if Philly strikes out at next years deadline and need a shooter cause Reddick doesn't cut it, they will have the cap space to absorb a shooter and a pick for the cost of doing so.

Just posted on ESPN:

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-41022725-4

Philadelphia after a summer of signing or trading for players on one-year contracts now project to enter the summer of 2019 with $42M in cap space. Because of the restricted free agency of Ben Simmons and Dario Saric in 2020, the window to use room will begin to close after next off-season.

Bobby Marks, ESPN