Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

he had 3 shots from outside the lane. I think GS would have defended him better this year.

I don't think anyone is doubting the talent, they are questioning the value of someone who is essentially hurt and not playing 50% of the time.

50%? Kyrie has never missed a game.

51 games
59 games
71 games
75 games
53 games
72 games
60 games for the Celtics and 0 play off games.

So I exaggerated slightly saying he's played only half.

Are you not worried about a player who has only played 70+ games in half of his seasons in the NBA?

No one is doubting the talent. I think some of us are rightly concerned with giving money to a player that hasn't been free of injuries.

so "concern...." lets talk about that.
A couple basic questions... after any injury has Kyrie appeared slower? He's gotten hurt a lot but certainly shows no effects from any of them.

I am concerned about KP's injuries as well. There will be no hesitation to sign him though... because we HAVE to. Same with Kyrie. I would love to only sign healthy guys. Look at the contract Embiid got. Think about it. This isnt the NFL. There isnt anything remotely close to Irving's talent out there. He's the game's best finisher. A guy who can score on the best defenders. Game 7 and Klay, Draymond... nobody could stop him.

The Knicks can afford depth. Kyrie is the dymanic scorer/finisher you add to a young long athletic defensive blue collar squad. We could be a year away.

You are right on the health... because if Kyrie stays healthy Cle might have two chips.
I am right on the value... because if Cle didnt pay Kyrie they would have none chips.

Dont let your concern get in the way of a chance at a title. Irving gives you a shot.

A healthy KP/Kyrie duo with a young supporting cast led by a developing Frank and Knox is a very intriguing idea, that's for sure. Add a 3 & D forward and we are onto something.

Anyway that is the path back. The Knicks dont fear cap woes. We can have a $150mm payroll if the players are worth it. Getting the players that are worth it is the problem... but we are on the right path, and not just for gettin in the Kyrie market, but for keeping our own picks and developing young guys.

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Maybe I'm nuts but I personally wouldn't max out any player that isn't a 2 way player and not injury-prone. He may be the best we can obtain and maybe we should be lucky he's interested in us... that said we would have to construct the roster around him to cover for his defense and even then I'm not sure I wouldn't rather have a passing point. The way the game is changing, KP will handle the ball, Frank a little, Knox seems to like to handle - every time I watch Kyrie I either seem him penetrating or shooting, passing not so much...

This is my thought process as well. I think this is what was expressed as the vision for the team. Smart two-way players. If we are ping to waver from that vision everytime a "Max" player becomes available, why even have a vision?

Sorry... if you want to win or compete for a title you do this.
But I guess now Kyrie is just a dumb scorer. Yea.. lets pass.

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

I would like to add a scorer that's as committed to defense as he is to scoring. Would you say Kyrie is and elite or an above average defender?

I think there will be 3-4 top level guys who you could sign in 2019 for max space that you would want to pursue IF they have not signed with their teams already.

Kyrie, Klay, LeBron, Kawhi. Literally that's it. List others if you have another option, I can't think of any. I don't think the rest of the guys move the needle or are a clear tier down.

LeBron will be 34/35 and won't come to the Knicks, just not enough of a team to get to Finals. I see Klay sticking with GS.

Would the Knicks take Kawhi/Klay over Kyrie? Probably/maybe, if they had the choice... are they more of 2-way players?

I'd say the Knicks would want Kawhi, Kyrie, Klay in that order. And if you could get ANY of them, you do it in a heartbeat, pure upgrade in talent that doesn't cost you outgoing assets.

For me, every deep playoff team needs 1 guy who you can just give the ball to and depend on him to get a bucket. Kawhi/Kyrie fit that to a T, Klay is more of a system guy IMHO.

For all of his defensive and injury deficiencies, you still go after Kryie and if you don't want him a year later, you trade him.

reub wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Maybe I'm nuts but I personally wouldn't max out any player that isn't a 2 way player and not injury-prone. He may be the best we can obtain and maybe we should be lucky he's interested in us... that said we would have to construct the roster around him to cover for his defense and even then I'm not sure I wouldn't rather have a passing point. The way the game is changing, KP will handle the ball, Frank a little, Knox seems to like to handle - every time I watch Kyrie I either seem him penetrating or shooting, passing not so much...

This is my thought process as well. I think this is what was expressed as the vision for the team. Smart two-way players. If we are ping to waver from that vision everytime a "Max" player becomes available, why even have a vision?

Sorry... if you want to win or compete for a title you do this.
But I guess now Kyrie is just a dumb scorer. Yea.. lets pass.

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

I would like to add a scorer that's as committed to defense as he is to scoring. Would you say Kyrie is and elite or an above average defender?

I would like to add a scorer who can get us to the ECF.

Maxing Kyrie is a no brainer.

But what about his chronic knee problems?

Those problems go away once you sign with the Knicks.
I get the argument for Kyrie. In the NBA if you can add an all star just for cap space its a good idea to do it. If you asked me before this season I would of had no problem signing Kyrie, but watching him miss the entire playoffs this season it changed my mind

franco12 wrote:

TheGame wrote:Honestly, if Frank progresses, I would rather sign Klay Thompson. GSW might be willing to do a sign and trade for Hardaway if Klay says he is leaving. GSW cannot afford to pay him the max and he is better defender than Kyrie

It is far from a no brainer.

The GSW are not trading Klay Thompson for THJr. OK, in a world where the GSW front office spends all day smoking crack, then Yes, it's possible. I mean Walter White survived in an alternate universe and is making blue crack with Jesse Pinkman type of situation. With Robots. Robots would be built to help make the crack. Also to cook chicken. Since the front to sell the blue crack would be the El Pollo Hermanos franchise. So Yes, the only way Klay Thompson ends up a Knick is if two fictional TV characters walked out of the screen and started making another drug empire fronted by a chicken shack.

On Irving, the situation answers itself.

IF/WHEN he becomes a street free agent, if he wants to sign with the Knicks then

A) The situation is they don't need him. They have cap space, their picks panned out, their winning/contending situation looks up. This is unlikely in reality, but if this was the case, they would have just more than Irving as an option

B) The situation is they don't want him. They are the only franchise to offer him the longest contract and the highest AAV. Meaning he has a ring, he just wants to get paid, get laid and retire soft early in NY. Which would imply injury concerns, character concerns, whatever.

If it ever gets to the point where Irving wants to come to the Knicks, odds are they won't want him or need him.

That being said, as a matter of discussion, if the Knicks draft picks of late pan out, you don't sign any aging veteran to the max. Not in this situation. If they don't pan out, you consider taking in a max level street free agent to build your marketing around. You concede you never win but you want to put a fun product on the floor.

If Irving ever becomes a Knick, it would likely be as a marketing based decision and not a basketball one.

TripleThreat wrote:

franco12 wrote:

TheGame wrote:Honestly, if Frank progresses, I would rather sign Klay Thompson. GSW might be willing to do a sign and trade for Hardaway if Klay says he is leaving. GSW cannot afford to pay him the max and he is better defender than Kyrie

It is far from a no brainer.

The GSW are not trading Klay Thompson for THJr. OK, in a world where the GSW front office spends all day smoking crack, then Yes, it's possible. I mean Walter White survived in an alternate universe and is making blue crack with Jesse Pinkman type of situation. With Robots. Robots would be built to help make the crack. Also to cook chicken. Since the front to sell the blue crack would be the El Pollo Hermanos franchise. So Yes, the only way Klay Thompson ends up a Knick is if two fictional TV characters walked out of the screen and started making another drug empire fronted by a chicken shack.

On Irving, the situation answers itself.

IF/WHEN he becomes a street free agent, if he wants to sign with the Knicks then

A) The situation is they don't need him. They have cap space, their picks panned out, their winning/contending situation looks up. This is unlikely in reality, but if this was the case, they would have just more than Irving as an option

B) The situation is they don't want him. They are the only franchise to offer him the longest contract and the highest AAV. Meaning he has a ring, he just wants to get paid, get laid and retire soft early in NY. Which would imply injury concerns, character concerns, whatever.

If it ever gets to the point where Irving wants to come to the Knicks, odds are they won't want him or need him.

That being said, as a matter of discussion, if the Knicks draft picks of late pan out, you don't sign any aging veteran to the max. Not in this situation. If they don't pan out, you consider taking in a max level street free agent to build your marketing around. You concede you never win but you want to put a fun product on the floor.

If Irving ever becomes a Knick, it would likely be as a marketing based decision and not a basketball one.

It can absolutely be a basketball decision. Remember that Kyrie has already been to 3 finals and won a title before age 25. He wanted to venture off and get his own team. Then he gets traded to Boston, who already has a playoff team and the face of the franchise is the coach. If Kyrie comes to NY, it will be because it's home to him, but also because it's a good opportunity to elevate a team to playoff status, alongside 1 other star player who isn't Lebron. It's an opportunity to solidify himself as one of the league's best players. Doesn't seem like he can do that in Boston. It's championship or bust there.

martin wrote:Kind of a mind boggling argument to NOT want Kyrie.

I think there will be 3-4 top level guys who you could sign in 2019 for max space that you would want to pursue IF they have not signed with their teams already.

Kyrie, Klay, LeBron, Kawhi. Literally that's it. List others if you have another option, I can't think of any. I don't think the rest of the guys move the needle or are a clear tier down.

LeBron will be 34/35 and won't come to the Knicks, just not enough of a team to get to Finals. I see Klay sticking with GS.

Would the Knicks take Kawhi/Klay over Kyrie? Probably/maybe, if they had the choice... are they more of 2-way players?

I'd say the Knicks would want Kawhi, Kyrie, Klay in that order. And if you could get ANY of them, you do it in a heartbeat, pure upgrade in talent that doesn't cost you outgoing assets.

For me, every deep playoff team needs 1 guy who you can just give the ball to and depend on him to get a bucket. Kawhi/Kyrie fit that to a T, Klay is more of a system guy IMHO.

For all of his defensive and injury deficiencies, you still go after Kryie and if you don't want him a year later, you trade him.

A top level guy that spends the playoffs sitting on bench is deadwood. I would love to get Klay Thompson, though not sure it ever happens. I am just tired of injury riddled players and/or one dimensional chuckers wanting to use the Knicks to line up their pockets for their post basketball years.

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:Kind of a mind boggling argument to NOT want Kyrie.

I think there will be 3-4 top level guys who you could sign in 2019 for max space that you would want to pursue IF they have not signed with their teams already.

Kyrie, Klay, LeBron, Kawhi. Literally that's it. List others if you have another option, I can't think of any. I don't think the rest of the guys move the needle or are a clear tier down.

LeBron will be 34/35 and won't come to the Knicks, just not enough of a team to get to Finals. I see Klay sticking with GS.

Would the Knicks take Kawhi/Klay over Kyrie? Probably/maybe, if they had the choice... are they more of 2-way players?

I'd say the Knicks would want Kawhi, Kyrie, Klay in that order. And if you could get ANY of them, you do it in a heartbeat, pure upgrade in talent that doesn't cost you outgoing assets.

For me, every deep playoff team needs 1 guy who you can just give the ball to and depend on him to get a bucket. Kawhi/Kyrie fit that to a T, Klay is more of a system guy IMHO.

For all of his defensive and injury deficiencies, you still go after Kryie and if you don't want him a year later, you trade him.

A top level guy that spends the playoffs sitting on bench is deadwood. I would love to get Klay Thompson, though not sure it ever happens. I am just tired of injury riddled players and/or one dimensional chuckers wanting to use the Knicks to line up their pockets for their post basketball years.

That's some nice rhetoric.

Who you signing with the cap space?

that sounds like something Jim Dolan said to Isiah when he was GM!

Let's say Kryie is banged up this year. Nagging stuff, he plays 50 games or so, misses the play offs.

All I am saying- and I think others are too- is it shouldn't be a no brainer to toss max money his way.

Can we save it for a rainy day? Perhaps an opportunity to clear someone else's cap, and collect a few draft picks/assets.

When we get there, if things line up, then yes, I will be excited if we can sign him.

I could see us having enough parts that an impact player like Kyrie can take us to the next level, and its play offs if folks stay healthy.

martin wrote:Kind of a mind boggling argument to NOT want Kyrie.

I think there will be 3-4 top level guys who you could sign in 2019 for max space that you would want to pursue IF they have not signed with their teams already.

Kyrie, Klay, LeBron, Kawhi. Literally that's it. List others if you have another option, I can't think of any. I don't think the rest of the guys move the needle or are a clear tier down.

LeBron will be 34/35 and won't come to the Knicks, just not enough of a team to get to Finals. I see Klay sticking with GS.

Would the Knicks take Kawhi/Klay over Kyrie? Probably/maybe, if they had the choice... are they more of 2-way players?

I'd say the Knicks would want Kawhi, Kyrie, Klay in that order. And if you could get ANY of them, you do it in a heartbeat, pure upgrade in talent that doesn't cost you outgoing assets.

For me, every deep playoff team needs 1 guy who you can just give the ball to and depend on him to get a bucket. Kawhi/Kyrie fit that to a T, Klay is more of a system guy IMHO.

For all of his defensive and injury deficiencies, you still go after Kryie and if you don't want him a year later, you trade him.

"If you don't want him a year later, you trade him." +100% and you will get something good for him.

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Maybe I'm nuts but I personally wouldn't max out any player that isn't a 2 way player and not injury-prone. He may be the best we can obtain and maybe we should be lucky he's interested in us... that said we would have to construct the roster around him to cover for his defense and even then I'm not sure I wouldn't rather have a passing point. The way the game is changing, KP will handle the ball, Frank a little, Knox seems to like to handle - every time I watch Kyrie I either seem him penetrating or shooting, passing not so much...

This is my thought process as well. I think this is what was expressed as the vision for the team. Smart two-way players. If we are ping to waver from that vision everytime a "Max" player becomes available, why even have a vision?

Sorry... if you want to win or compete for a title you do this.
But I guess now Kyrie is just a dumb scorer. Yea.. lets pass.

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

Getting Kyrie in 2019 also ups our chances of getting another star to play with him and KP in 2020 when Noah and C.Lee come off the books and Timmy only has one year left on his deal. If Kyrie wants the Knicks then the Knicks should get him. It's a no brainer.