Killa4luv wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:Couple of points:
...
- How can professionally trained police officers act this way?
- Seems like Starbucks CEO is handling this as best he can

I'm no fan of the cops... I'm a straight white protestant male and have my fair share of BS interactions with them. For example, (long story short) I got pulled over "did nothing wrong" and now have a court date because the DMV never mailed mailed me a notice. My attorney said I have nothing to worry about, but (1) I had to frigin hire an attorney and (2) in theory I could spend a year behind bars... all because a cop decided to run my tags despite him stating "don't worry you have nothing to worry about" (while there is a record of DMV getting their mail returned and never trying again). I'm a white dude and I don't have to deal with 1/10 of the bull**** black guys have to deal with...

... that said, I don't see how the cops did anything wrong. The cops here handled it the way they should... it's sort of up to the social systems to redefine how the cops carry out their business. I have ZERO interest in letting the cops make more decisions based upon their discretion. I would rather more capable people decide on what tasks they're supposed to carry out. Because in my experience, whenever a cop gets to use their discretion, they **** it up

as for the Starbucks CEO, I am impressed with his quick decision making and for taking accountability for his racist store manager's actions. That said, I'm not going to give him credit for a response to a massive failure. I understand they want paying customers to piss in their bathrooms but I mean come on... I've used the restroom in Starbucks without paying at multiple locations. Those guys did not look homeless or like addicts. They just got singled out because they're black. And Starbucks allowed their culture to become that. I am not a big fan of their burnt ass coffee, but this makes it easy to not go here unless I have to drop a deuce and have no other options and I would hope others use this as an opportunity to buy their coffee at a local shop wherever possible

IMHO... I think there are just too many excuses being given for this obvious racism. Both the Police officers and Manager showed their ignorance and racism by acting the way they did. Regardless if the ones involved were slightly racist or extremely racist has no bearing. Any level of racism is still racism and needs to be condemmed. We can all pretend their actions were not based on negative views of african americans but that would be a short sighted view. And out of touch with what is going on in America. Seems to me that some want to come up with different scenerios why this may have been okay and/or, was not racism or why some where not at fault. Just not true. This was racism by Police and Manager. Period.

Ask yourselves... if this was a white couple, would anyone have even noticed that they had not purchased something? We are talking about f...ng Starbucks!! A place littered by real estate agents, students, teenagers, people looking for jobs, homeless, anyone who needs free WIfi. Half the people that sit at Starbucks, sit for hours without ever buying a single thing. Second, if this was a white couple, would the cops have even showed up? (Hello this is the Police. You have a couple who are sitting there and have not ordered anything? What do they look like? White couple? Really, why are you bothering the Police with this non senses.) And if they showed up, would they have escorted them out after being told they were waiting for friends? Come on everyone, I know we are all hoping to give the benefit of the doubt to humanity but this is a simple case where the ones involved were just not smart enough to deal with a simple issue AND were definately racially bias. Stop with the excuses. As that is one of the problems.

I came to say exactly this. Its racism plain and simple. Bottom line is as long as presumably well intentioned white people refuse to come to grips with this, we will all continue to suffer for it. Google Implicit bias. The idea that people were arrested for being in a starbucks for 2 minutes without purchasing anything is absurd beyond belief when the whole country treats Starbucks as an unofficial free office space where buying something is totally optional.

I'm exhausted and disappointed whenever I hear white people bemoan how something isnt about race. White people who have devoted precious few hours trying to understand racism beyond a very elementary "racism is hate and hate is bad" perspective. I've spent countless hours making numerous points about this over the decade & change I've been on this board and its disheartening seeing that folks haven't moved an inch closer to understanding what racism is, why it is so pervasive and how to deal with it.

Also, the manager was NOT fired, she was moved to another store. Having said all of that, I must say that, other than not firing the manager, starbucks seems to be handling this in a way that is commendable in terms of how seriously they seem to be taking it. I couldnt imagine a company doing more than what theyve done or are trying to do even if none of it works, its commendable. Contrast that with the police chief who said "the cops did nothing wrong." funny that cops seem to always believe theyve done the "nothing wrong" even when unarmed men, women & children are murdered. I'm over it.

I feel like both of you are reading what I wrote the way you want to read it. Please read the bold. Possibly re-read the entire post. I understand that it wasn't terribly eloquent but I do think both you and Hostra are seeing what you want to see here

Killa4luv wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:Couple of points:
...
- How can professionally trained police officers act this way?
- Seems like Starbucks CEO is handling this as best he can

I'm no fan of the cops... I'm a straight white protestant male and have my fair share of BS interactions with them. For example, (long story short) I got pulled over "did nothing wrong" and now have a court date because the DMV never mailed mailed me a notice. My attorney said I have nothing to worry about, but (1) I had to frigin hire an attorney and (2) in theory I could spend a year behind bars... all because a cop decided to run my tags despite him stating "don't worry you have nothing to worry about" (while there is a record of DMV getting their mail returned and never trying again). I'm a white dude and I don't have to deal with 1/10 of the bull**** black guys have to deal with...

... that said, I don't see how the cops did anything wrong. The cops here handled it the way they should... it's sort of up to the social systems to redefine how the cops carry out their business. I have ZERO interest in letting the cops make more decisions based upon their discretion. I would rather more capable people decide on what tasks they're supposed to carry out. Because in my experience, whenever a cop gets to use their discretion, they **** it up

as for the Starbucks CEO, I am impressed with his quick decision making and for taking accountability for his racist store manager's actions. That said, I'm not going to give him credit for a response to a massive failure. I understand they want paying customers to piss in their bathrooms but I mean come on... I've used the restroom in Starbucks without paying at multiple locations. Those guys did not look homeless or like addicts. They just got singled out because they're black. And Starbucks allowed their culture to become that. I am not a big fan of their burnt ass coffee, but this makes it easy to not go here unless I have to drop a deuce and have no other options and I would hope others use this as an opportunity to buy their coffee at a local shop wherever possible

IMHO... I think there are just too many excuses being given for this obvious racism. Both the Police officers and Manager showed their ignorance and racism by acting the way they did. Regardless if the ones involved were slightly racist or extremely racist has no bearing. Any level of racism is still racism and needs to be condemmed. We can all pretend their actions were not based on negative views of african americans but that would be a short sighted view. And out of touch with what is going on in America. Seems to me that some want to come up with different scenerios why this may have been okay and/or, was not racism or why some where not at fault. Just not true. This was racism by Police and Manager. Period.

Ask yourselves... if this was a white couple, would anyone have even noticed that they had not purchased something? We are talking about f...ng Starbucks!! A place littered by real estate agents, students, teenagers, people looking for jobs, homeless, anyone who needs free WIfi. Half the people that sit at Starbucks, sit for hours without ever buying a single thing. Second, if this was a white couple, would the cops have even showed up? (Hello this is the Police. You have a couple who are sitting there and have not ordered anything? What do they look like? White couple? Really, why are you bothering the Police with this non senses.) And if they showed up, would they have escorted them out after being told they were waiting for friends? Come on everyone, I know we are all hoping to give the benefit of the doubt to humanity but this is a simple case where the ones involved were just not smart enough to deal with a simple issue AND were definately racially bias. Stop with the excuses. As that is one of the problems.

I came to say exactly this. Its racism plain and simple. Bottom line is as long as presumably well intentioned white people refuse to come to grips with this, we will all continue to suffer for it. Google Implicit bias. The idea that people were arrested for being in a starbucks for 2 minutes without purchasing anything is absurd beyond belief when the whole country treats Starbucks as an unofficial free office space where buying something is totally optional.

I'm exhausted and disappointed whenever I hear white people bemoan how something isnt about race. White people who have devoted precious few hours trying to understand racism beyond a very elementary "racism is hate and hate is bad" perspective. I've spent countless hours making numerous points about this over the decade & change I've been on this board and its disheartening seeing that folks haven't moved an inch closer to understanding what racism is, why it is so pervasive and how to deal with it.

Also, the manager was NOT fired, she was moved to another store. Having said all of that, I must say that, other than not firing the manager, starbucks seems to be handling this in a way that is commendable in terms of how seriously they seem to be taking it. I couldnt imagine a company doing more than what theyve done or are trying to do even if none of it works, its commendable. Contrast that with the police chief who said "the cops did nothing wrong." funny that cops seem to always believe theyve done the "nothing wrong" even when unarmed men, women & children are murdered. I'm over it.

Great post, totally agree