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Great Read For Those Impatient Knicks Fans Hating on Frank Ntilikina -Like always....love em...hate..em..trade em...
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martin
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2/11/2018  3:09 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:I agree -- he is an NBA player. As to your question, I have no idea why they don't use the g-league like it's the minors. I think it's insane. I think it's a lot of biased group think and irrational bias.

Let's take a team like the Knicks that benefit from having more resources available than other teams. Let's say that the Knicks become forward thinkers and become world-class educators... they get to the point where if you are a d-league player, you WANT to come to Westchester. Guys that go through our Westchester program become better ballers... wouldn't that be such a huge advantage for us? For whatever reason, the league definitely has a stigma attached to it.

So I don't know if it's possible for Frank to go down there, up his conditioning, and return with a legit jumper... but I certainly think it should be possible and I would love to see it

So my supposition: The GLeaugue isn't ready to be a real development league. Could be sigma of sending a first round pick, could be that literally there aren't enough coaches, money, facilities, etc. devoted to the GLeague and the NBA is just so far advanced right now that they don't send guys down.

I think this is the first year GLeague players got a min salary? Or something like that so most of the guys aren't early $40K over 8 months (which means most of them have a second job?)?

My guess, you have to pick and choose very carefully when and who and for how long you send guys.

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martin
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2/11/2018  3:10 PM
so check this out:

Does anyone think that Indiana could have viably sent Myles Turner to their GLeague team for a couple of months to solely work on rebounding and post up moves within his first 2 years? Probably would have been worth while but they didn't. Or couldn't.

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SupremeCommander
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2/11/2018  3:22 PM
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:I agree -- he is an NBA player. As to your question, I have no idea why they don't use the g-league like it's the minors. I think it's insane. I think it's a lot of biased group think and irrational bias.

Let's take a team like the Knicks that benefit from having more resources available than other teams. Let's say that the Knicks become forward thinkers and become world-class educators... they get to the point where if you are a d-league player, you WANT to come to Westchester. Guys that go through our Westchester program become better ballers... wouldn't that be such a huge advantage for us? For whatever reason, the league definitely has a stigma attached to it.

So I don't know if it's possible for Frank to go down there, up his conditioning, and return with a legit jumper... but I certainly think it should be possible and I would love to see it

So my supposition: The GLeaugue isn't ready to be a real development league. Could be sigma of sending a first round pick, could be that literally there aren't enough coaches, money, facilities, etc. devoted to the GLeague and the NBA is just so far advanced right now that they don't send guys down.

I think this is the first year GLeague players got a min salary? Or something like that so most of the guys aren't early $40K over 8 months (which means most of them have a second job?)?

My guess, you have to pick and choose very carefully when and who and for how long you send guys.

I could be mistaken, but I believe if you are on an NBA rookie contract and go to the g/d-league, you still get paid you rookie contract and you still occupy a roster spot on the big club

I think that there is something to the league itself not being developed enough. But I really think a team like the Knicks should have that infrastructure in place as we certainly have the infrastructure.

I also think we've had enough success with guys like Langston Galloway, and other guys on the roster have been g/d-league success stories, like THJ

The Knicks can't leverage their resources as an advantage in the NBA... I don't see why they can't allocate these resources to development. If we were talking about a Fortune 500 company, this would be the equivalent of funding a research and development department. That's the type of investment that pays off big time in the future

So to go back to the original point, I think a lot of people that want Frank to go develop in the g/d-league, really just want things to work out ideally. Maybe you're right, maybe we don't have that infrastructure in place... but we should

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CrushAlot
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2/11/2018  3:39 PM
martin wrote:so check this out:

Does anyone think that Indiana could have viably sent Myles Turner to their GLeague team for a couple of months to solely work on rebounding and post up moves within his first 2 years? Probably would have been worth while but they didn't. Or couldn't.

Do you really think there is any similarity to their situations? Aside from both guys being 19 when they came into the league not sure that there is. My guess is only one of the two wins a roy of the month and gets some votes for roy.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
martin
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2/11/2018  3:41 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:so check this out:

Does anyone think that Indiana could have viably sent Myles Turner to their GLeague team for a couple of months to solely work on rebounding and post up moves within his first 2 years? Probably would have been worth while but they didn't. Or couldn't.

Do you really think there is any similarity to their situations? Aside from both guys being 19 when they came into the league not sure that there is. My guess is only one of the two wins a roy of the month and gets some votes for roy.

Not a ton but you get my drift.

Or did you miss it completely?

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CrushAlot
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2/11/2018  3:49 PM
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:so check this out:

Does anyone think that Indiana could have viably sent Myles Turner to their GLeague team for a couple of months to solely work on rebounding and post up moves within his first 2 years? Probably would have been worth while but they didn't. Or couldn't.

Do you really think there is any similarity to their situations? Aside from both guys being 19 when they came into the league not sure that there is. My guess is only one of the two wins a roy of the month and gets some votes for roy.

Not a ton but you get my drift.

Or did you miss it completely?

Here's a question. How many young power forwards did the Pacers bring in that year?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
GustavBahler
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2/11/2018  6:18 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:G-League, would have been a good place for a rookie to work on his game this season, who has played like second round talent to this point.

I've asked this several time in other threads but no one has yet to respond.

Who here has any understanding of the difference between growth environment between the NBA and the GLeague? Guys can get playing time in the GLeague, if that is the ONLY aspect of what is needed, but what about everything else that is provided at the NBA level that is not within the G-League: more access to coaches, nutrition, weight training, going up again other NBA players, etc.

GustavBahler, you've mentioned that Frank should go to the GLeague over and over. What is your experience with the GLeague and what it has to offer over training on an NBA team? What other players can we point to that couldn't get time on an NBA that played in GLeague and developed? What is your plan? Only home games, going back and forth with NBA? A few weeks? The rest of the season? Travel with GLeague team?

What are the positives and negatives in going to the GLeague? What are the positives and negatives in staying on the NBA team with their coaches?

Frank will be getting time playing over the summer where no doubt he will be in a position to get the same type of GLeague experience but he won't be able to get back his NBA time with team.

Can anyone put any more teeth into the line "Send Frank to the Gleague" or is that it? Seems fairly simplistic to me.

I think you are making the point that Frank would be better in the nba no matter how much he struggles and is scrutinized so that he can experience nba coaching, playing experience. travel etc. Sometimes it is better to be the best in the 'b' group then the worst in the 'a' group. A lot of very good players have come from the d league. A lot of guys that are very good were developed there despite being drafted Capella, Gobert, Hardaway jr., D.Green etc. I think you need to get past defending Frank and look at what is best for his development. Staying with the Knicks might be the best thing but it isn't the only option. Barring injuries, Frank should have a 15-17 year career. If the Knick organization sees Westchester as a good developmental program then they should consider it for Frank. If the thought is that he is better off being with the NBA team then don't send him down. I thought Perry did a great job bringing in Jack to mentor Frank. He has been described by some in the media as the perfect vet mentor/locker room guy. Whatever decision is made it should be based on development and not on not on not embarrassing the franchise or embarrassing Frank. My guess is that the coaching staff knows Frank well enough to know if sending him down for development devastates him and harms his growth.

Both of your points highlighted are off, utterly and completely. Literally I am asking about the GLeague and what you know about it. "I think you are making the point that Frank would be better in the nba no matter how much he struggles". Why would you try to put words to me?

Reread my post very closely. I never defend Frank, and in fact I am looking at what is best for his development: I AM LITERALLY ASKING ABOUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

I want you and Gustav to tell me what you know about the GLeague and how it is better, compare and contrast, not just throw **** against the wall and see if it sticks.

Please address some of the meat of my post:

Who here has any understanding of the difference between growth environment between the NBA and the GLeague? Guys can get playing time in the GLeague, if that is the ONLY aspect of what is needed, but what about everything else that is provided at the NBA level that is not within the G-League: more access to coaches, nutrition, weight training, going up again other NBA players, etc.

What is your experience with the GLeague and what it has to offer over training on an NBA team? What other players can we point to that couldn't get time on an NBA that played in GLeague and developed? What is your plan? Only home games, going back and forth with NBA? A few weeks? The rest of the season? Travel with GLeague team?

What are the positives and negatives in going to the GLeague? What are the positives and negatives in staying on the NBA team with their coaches?

Also, if you ask Frank to go to the GLeague and just take a me-first attitude on the offensive end of things, does that wreck the whole chemistry of their development system of the other guys on the team? Does it take away from the whole structure of team ball?

This is not a black and white thing. Send Frank, magic happens, Frank is suddenly better and fixed.

Nutrition? We talking bout' Nutrition??? Does MSG have better smoothies? Is that it?

Cmon Mart-in, you can do better than that.

You've just made an argument never to send anyone to the G-League.

I will give you one good reason why. Frank has a giant hole in his game, namely his playing scared most of the time.

How many times does Frank get to the line? How many charges has he taken this season? Dont want your answer to be another variation of "But he's just a baby!"

Whatever you believe Frank's ceiling is, even if its accurate,he's played like second round talent at best this season. What is often done with second round talent? They get sent to the G-League so they can work on their game.

If Frank is too underdeveloped to play NBA style ball, then he needs to go somewhere to work on that. I just thought of a place!!

You treat this kid like he is the annointed one. Its getting old.

So mostly you have offered nothing but surface level guesses at what the GLeague can offer.

And to the bold: You know what happens to guys who are getting minutes in the NBA, they stay and get experience in the NBA.

And by nutrition I do mean diet, etc. This is EXTREMELY important to athletes.

Keep throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks and you'll get what you get. It's very thin.

Do you think DSJr should be sent to the GLeague? He is clueless at defense. Maybe he could work on his game there? Why do you think Dallas is keeping him on the NBA team?

Your only real objection seems to be that there are no guarantees that the G-League will help. Thanks for the bulletin. Not a reason to rule it out. Thats what its there for.

Nutrition is important, you make it sound like they eat gruel in the G-League.

DSJ is playing like first round talent. Frank isnt.

TripleThreat
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2/11/2018  7:23 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:I agree -- he is an NBA player. As to your question, I have no idea why they don't use the g-league like it's the minors. I think it's insane. I think it's a lot of biased group think and irrational bias.

Let's take a team like the Knicks that benefit from having more resources available than other teams. Let's say that the Knicks become forward thinkers and become world-class educators... they get to the point where if you are a d-league player, you WANT to come to Westchester. Guys that go through our Westchester program become better ballers... wouldn't that be such a huge advantage for us? For whatever reason, the league definitely has a stigma attached to it.

So I don't know if it's possible for Frank to go down there, up his conditioning, and return with a legit jumper... but I certainly think it should be possible and I would love to see it

The D/G League exists for many reasons, not all relate to player development.

Sports franchise ownership is a "status" symbol for many very wealthy people. Inside an already exclusive club, you are then placed in yet another tier of exclusivity. It also opens up a massive amount of opportunity for your business/social network as a wealthy person. Many have turned their sports ownership into influence in politics and policy making, which would not normally be accessible to many, not even many of the very wealthy.

The problem, like any closed group, is some people are on the outside. Someone like a Larry Ellison type has gobs of cash. But people don't like him. Other wealthy people don't like him. Or you have situations like Mark Cuban, where he owns one sports franchise, but his antics and reputation close him off from buying another team in another sport. These guys are always a threat to start a rival league and have the bankroll to do it. The mass opportunity would happen during a massive labor war.

Part of expanding things like practice squad slots ( NFL ) or creating more subdivisions of minor league baseball ( MLB) or the G-League is you are choking off the talent pool to a possible rival league WITHOUT increasing your pensions costs/health insurance costs/adding more league votes/adding another element to a players union because these guys are not garnering real "service time"

Other reasons are to create a separate coaching pool that is not linked to the college game. Much of the coaching talent out there will prefer college to the NBA. ( Coach K lives like a God at Duke, if he coached the Lakers like Kobe wanted, what do you think would happen to him?) Also to having a training ground/replacement cycle for new refs. And to test new tweaks to the actual NBA game. It's also a good way to facilitate helping out your cronies. Part of the pro sports business is you have to give out jobs sometimes. Even to people who don't deserve them. Sometimes you can shuffle someone off to the G League in some fashion to help the team. Maybe they are related to an agent. Or an agent you owe has a player who has a family member who needs a job. Operationally, it also becomes another type of tax shelter for the league.

Does it help players actually develop?

The answer is "It depends"

The D League was mostly an open training culture. Think of like the Spartan "Agoge" system. The point was development. In the past, if another coach on another team could help a guy, he would. If a veteran player could help a guy, he would mostly. Many of those veterans know they aren't making the NBA, they want to keep the doors open to possibly coaching at some level. At the NBA level, the idea of mentorship is a bit overblown. No one really wants to help you take their job from them. Of course fringe roster guys like a Sessions or Jack, want to stay on the roster, so the mentoring is a selling point for them. It's not out of the goodwill of their heart.

Much like the Agoge system, the players basically live, eat, train and exist together all the time. You have nothing to do but work on your game. Most people in the league are too broke to go get into trouble. There is also the mental breakdown process. Most guys at this level of basketball and higher are used to being the primary option on their team. Well at this level, sometimes your best chance to make the NBA is to fit a role. Much of the individual coaching at this level is to adjust for role development. Maybe your best chance is to be a defense/energy guy off the bench. So it's up to the coaches, if you have any decent ones, to help you game up your strengths to suit that, and limit your weaknesses. It's like writing a different version of your resume to get a specific kind of job.

Where this is complicated is the "synergy" between the G League and parent franchise. It helps if they run the same kind of system/offense/roles so players can train in the type of environment they will actually be asked to operate in at a game level. This is NOT true for all G League franchises.

Big men typically don't get much development at the G League level. Guards and wings tend to do better, because they are naturally ball dominant and game style lends towards ball dominant play. It's a step up in competition from college, a step down slightly in competition from the Euro Leagues, but not a full leap into the NBA grade style of competition.

At the NBA level, the focus is on winning games. There is not as much focus on player development. If you are lucky, like Jeremy Lin was, you have a guy like Kenny Atkinson, who had a dual role, to help your development. And he was even luckier, he had Eric Musselman, a former NBA coach, helping him at the D League level, who had a relationship with his first franchise ( Warriors) There are also fewer games, so you don't have the kind of leap in physical attrition going from the college game to the pros.

The benefit of the NBA level is you are learning from film and scouting reports of actual NBA players. Part of success is working with a knowledge base to understand players tendencies and strengths. This is no different from Nick Mangold going over with Mark Sanchez on the strengths and exploits of that weeks defensive linemen.

The G League is a filter point. Dudes who couldn't get into college, guys washing out of the NBA, injured guys, guys with character concerns. As the league shifts to a 1 to 1 ration with parent NBA franchises, things might change. Players are better off though, for the most part, in college or the Euro leagues.

IF Frank N needed to learn how to play a much different role than his pre draft game, then maybe the G League would help for individualized coaching with less pressure. If he was injured and needed rehab. If he was battered from physical attrition and needed a break.

His "role" however doesn't need a ton of adjustment. He's already a NBA caliber defender at three positions. If he can hit the open three pointer at a league average rate ( and this is a skill set you CAN DEVELOP WITH WORK) , then he has a perfectly functional NBA floor skill set. OK, he can't create his own shot. Well, so what. He's a cost controlled guy who might end up a useful 3 And D wing. That's not so horrible.

The reality is Frank N might be a limbo Quad A type player now. Too advanced for the G League but not quite ready for the full time NBA grind. Players make their major leaps in development between Years 1 and 2, then again in 2 and 3. Let's see where he is midway through Year 3 on the roster.

The gaps in talent for pro basketball is HUGE. The top 3-5 guys, the talent gap is HUGE compared to the next 10-12 guys. And again, it's HUGE when compared to the next 20 guys after that. The drop off from the bottom of the NBA roster to the G League is pretty large.

My take? He's a NBA caliber defender at 19. He's better off learning to scout and process game film on guys he has to actually play against. He came from a pro environment, so his need to build in "culture" and "preparation" is probably moot. To be functionally useful, he needs to learn to hit a league average 3 point shot, which the G League won't help him with, hard work and time can do that hopefully.

If the G League was functionally great at player development, you'd see way more players transition from there to the NBA. But the issue often times is just raw talent and athleticism. You can't take a NFL or MLB concept and apply it to the NBA, there are too many differences.

Recipes for G League success ( maybe...)

- Player is in his first three years in the league or less ( in his prime developmental window) and under the age of 24
- Synergy between the G League and NBA franchise ( system, offensive style)
- Individualized coaching to a ROLE outside of the players normal fit on all previous team ( i.e. you are not the Alpha Dog anymore...)
- Calibration of physical attrition/injury prevention based on the player recent injury history/usage/level of experience/stage of physical development
- Having someone will real NBA coaching experience to help develop the players ( There are a lot of lousy coaches in the G League, which is why many are not in the NBA, Euro Leagues, college game)

Jeremy Lin had the raw athletic skill set. He had a good work ethic. He had good coaches at both levels. He had opportunity. He was in his prime developmental window. Sitting in the NBA allowed him to train outside the NBA to help his skill set while filling out physically. Eric Musselman was a Godsend for him, as was Kenny Atkinson. It wasn't one thing, it was many things. But things that tend to fall into a pattern.

Going to the G League won't help Frank N develop an elite three point shot. If he had one, and was using it, there would be way less criticism of him right now. He'd be a 3 And D wing who could defend well and it would be sort of a shrugged shoulders situation that he can't create his own shot.

Pro Tip - If you want to gauge league consensus on a young players potential, don't read fluff articles, LOOK AT HIS AGENT.

Powerful agents became powerful by making good bets and good risks on which players to represent. Leon Rose of CAA is Frank N's agent. Rose could rep nearly anyone. Many players and their families would give their right nut ( Tupac'ed per se) to have Rose rep them.

I see a high floor player who has a very useful skill set. Maybe he won't be a super star. OK, so what. You need stars to win, but you do need all types to win besides stars as well.

fwk00
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2/11/2018  7:31 PM
Assuming no injuries Frankie/Mudiay will become a legendary Knicks backcourt. The need to be on the court together as much as possible and Jeff is exactly the right coach to develop these guys.

After the porzingis injury the Knicks *are* the G-League.

GustavBahler
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2/11/2018  7:39 PM
fwk00 wrote:Assuming no injuries Frankie/Mudiay will become a legendary Knicks backcourt. The need to be on the court together as much as possible and Jeff is exactly the right coach to develop these guys.

After the porzingis injury the Knicks *are* the G-League.

Unfortunately true.

martin
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2/11/2018  9:00 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Your only real objection seems to be that there are no guarantees that the G-League will help. Thanks for the bulletin. Not a reason to rule it out. Thats what its there for.

Nutrition is important, you make it sound like they eat gruel in the G-League.

DSJ is playing like first round talent. Frank isnt.

I keep asking you and Crush to help and participate into a bit of mental exercise about a topic you and I both know very little about: What is good about sending a player to the GLeague. I've offered up lots of possibilities why NBA team may not want to. If you can't or don't want to offer up anything, cool. It's thin they way you wail on about Send Frank to the GLeague to help his confidence and yet very overtly offer nothing after that but a bit of diversion and sarcasm. I've asked several times over, but zero creativity or an ounce of effort.

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2/11/2018  9:05 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:I agree -- he is an NBA player. As to your question, I have no idea why they don't use the g-league like it's the minors. I think it's insane. I think it's a lot of biased group think and irrational bias.

Let's take a team like the Knicks that benefit from having more resources available than other teams. Let's say that the Knicks become forward thinkers and become world-class educators... they get to the point where if you are a d-league player, you WANT to come to Westchester. Guys that go through our Westchester program become better ballers... wouldn't that be such a huge advantage for us? For whatever reason, the league definitely has a stigma attached to it.

So I don't know if it's possible for Frank to go down there, up his conditioning, and return with a legit jumper... but I certainly think it should be possible and I would love to see it

The D/G League exists for many reasons, not all relate to player development.

Sports franchise ownership is a "status" symbol for many very wealthy people. Inside an already exclusive club, you are then placed in yet another tier of exclusivity. It also opens up a massive amount of opportunity for your business/social network as a wealthy person. Many have turned their sports ownership into influence in politics and policy making, which would not normally be accessible to many, not even many of the very wealthy.

The problem, like any closed group, is some people are on the outside. Someone like a Larry Ellison type has gobs of cash. But people don't like him. Other wealthy people don't like him. Or you have situations like Mark Cuban, where he owns one sports franchise, but his antics and reputation close him off from buying another team in another sport. These guys are always a threat to start a rival league and have the bankroll to do it. The mass opportunity would happen during a massive labor war.

Part of expanding things like practice squad slots ( NFL ) or creating more subdivisions of minor league baseball ( MLB) or the G-League is you are choking off the talent pool to a possible rival league WITHOUT increasing your pensions costs/health insurance costs/adding more league votes/adding another element to a players union because these guys are not garnering real "service time"

Other reasons are to create a separate coaching pool that is not linked to the college game. Much of the coaching talent out there will prefer college to the NBA. ( Coach K lives like a God at Duke, if he coached the Lakers like Kobe wanted, what do you think would happen to him?) Also to having a training ground/replacement cycle for new refs. And to test new tweaks to the actual NBA game. It's also a good way to facilitate helping out your cronies. Part of the pro sports business is you have to give out jobs sometimes. Even to people who don't deserve them. Sometimes you can shuffle someone off to the G League in some fashion to help the team. Maybe they are related to an agent. Or an agent you owe has a player who has a family member who needs a job. Operationally, it also becomes another type of tax shelter for the league.

Does it help players actually develop?

The answer is "It depends"

The D League was mostly an open training culture. Think of like the Spartan "Agoge" system. The point was development. In the past, if another coach on another team could help a guy, he would. If a veteran player could help a guy, he would mostly. Many of those veterans know they aren't making the NBA, they want to keep the doors open to possibly coaching at some level. At the NBA level, the idea of mentorship is a bit overblown. No one really wants to help you take their job from them. Of course fringe roster guys like a Sessions or Jack, want to stay on the roster, so the mentoring is a selling point for them. It's not out of the goodwill of their heart.

Much like the Agoge system, the players basically live, eat, train and exist together all the time. You have nothing to do but work on your game. Most people in the league are too broke to go get into trouble. There is also the mental breakdown process. Most guys at this level of basketball and higher are used to being the primary option on their team. Well at this level, sometimes your best chance to make the NBA is to fit a role. Much of the individual coaching at this level is to adjust for role development. Maybe your best chance is to be a defense/energy guy off the bench. So it's up to the coaches, if you have any decent ones, to help you game up your strengths to suit that, and limit your weaknesses. It's like writing a different version of your resume to get a specific kind of job.

Where this is complicated is the "synergy" between the G League and parent franchise. It helps if they run the same kind of system/offense/roles so players can train in the type of environment they will actually be asked to operate in at a game level. This is NOT true for all G League franchises.

Big men typically don't get much development at the G League level. Guards and wings tend to do better, because they are naturally ball dominant and game style lends towards ball dominant play. It's a step up in competition from college, a step down slightly in competition from the Euro Leagues, but not a full leap into the NBA grade style of competition.

At the NBA level, the focus is on winning games. There is not as much focus on player development. If you are lucky, like Jeremy Lin was, you have a guy like Kenny Atkinson, who had a dual role, to help your development. And he was even luckier, he had Eric Musselman, a former NBA coach, helping him at the D League level, who had a relationship with his first franchise ( Warriors) There are also fewer games, so you don't have the kind of leap in physical attrition going from the college game to the pros.

The benefit of the NBA level is you are learning from film and scouting reports of actual NBA players. Part of success is working with a knowledge base to understand players tendencies and strengths. This is no different from Nick Mangold going over with Mark Sanchez on the strengths and exploits of that weeks defensive linemen.

The G League is a filter point. Dudes who couldn't get into college, guys washing out of the NBA, injured guys, guys with character concerns. As the league shifts to a 1 to 1 ration with parent NBA franchises, things might change. Players are better off though, for the most part, in college or the Euro leagues.

IF Frank N needed to learn how to play a much different role than his pre draft game, then maybe the G League would help for individualized coaching with less pressure. If he was injured and needed rehab. If he was battered from physical attrition and needed a break.

His "role" however doesn't need a ton of adjustment. He's already a NBA caliber defender at three positions. If he can hit the open three pointer at a league average rate ( and this is a skill set you CAN DEVELOP WITH WORK) , then he has a perfectly functional NBA floor skill set. OK, he can't create his own shot. Well, so what. He's a cost controlled guy who might end up a useful 3 And D wing. That's not so horrible.

The reality is Frank N might be a limbo Quad A type player now. Too advanced for the G League but not quite ready for the full time NBA grind. Players make their major leaps in development between Years 1 and 2, then again in 2 and 3. Let's see where he is midway through Year 3 on the roster.

The gaps in talent for pro basketball is HUGE. The top 3-5 guys, the talent gap is HUGE compared to the next 10-12 guys. And again, it's HUGE when compared to the next 20 guys after that. The drop off from the bottom of the NBA roster to the G League is pretty large.

My take? He's a NBA caliber defender at 19. He's better off learning to scout and process game film on guys he has to actually play against. He came from a pro environment, so his need to build in "culture" and "preparation" is probably moot. To be functionally useful, he needs to learn to hit a league average 3 point shot, which the G League won't help him with, hard work and time can do that hopefully.

If the G League was functionally great at player development, you'd see way more players transition from there to the NBA. But the issue often times is just raw talent and athleticism. You can't take a NFL or MLB concept and apply it to the NBA, there are too many differences.

Recipes for G League success ( maybe...)

- Player is in his first three years in the league or less ( in his prime developmental window) and under the age of 24
- Synergy between the G League and NBA franchise ( system, offensive style)
- Individualized coaching to a ROLE outside of the players normal fit on all previous team ( i.e. you are not the Alpha Dog anymore...)
- Calibration of physical attrition/injury prevention based on the player recent injury history/usage/level of experience/stage of physical development
- Having someone will real NBA coaching experience to help develop the players ( There are a lot of lousy coaches in the G League, which is why many are not in the NBA, Euro Leagues, college game)

Jeremy Lin had the raw athletic skill set. He had a good work ethic. He had good coaches at both levels. He had opportunity. He was in his prime developmental window. Sitting in the NBA allowed him to train outside the NBA to help his skill set while filling out physically. Eric Musselman was a Godsend for him, as was Kenny Atkinson. It wasn't one thing, it was many things. But things that tend to fall into a pattern.

Going to the G League won't help Frank N develop an elite three point shot. If he had one, and was using it, there would be way less criticism of him right now. He'd be a 3 And D wing who could defend well and it would be sort of a shrugged shoulders situation that he can't create his own shot.

Pro Tip - If you want to gauge league consensus on a young players potential, don't read fluff articles, LOOK AT HIS AGENT.

Powerful agents became powerful by making good bets and good risks on which players to represent. Leon Rose of CAA is Frank N's agent. Rose could rep nearly anyone. Many players and their families would give their right nut ( Tupac'ed per se) to have Rose rep them.

I see a high floor player who has a very useful skill set. Maybe he won't be a super star. OK, so what. You need stars to win, but you do need all types to win besides stars as well.

Thanks for posting this. Great write up.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
GustavBahler
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2/11/2018  9:58 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Your only real objection seems to be that there are no guarantees that the G-League will help. Thanks for the bulletin. Not a reason to rule it out. Thats what its there for.

Nutrition is important, you make it sound like they eat gruel in the G-League.

DSJ is playing like first round talent. Frank isnt.

I keep asking you and Crush to help and participate into a bit of mental exercise about a topic you and I both know very little about: What is good about sending a player to the GLeague. I've offered up lots of possibilities why NBA team may not want to. If you can't or don't want to offer up anything, cool. It's thin they way you wail on about Send Frank to the GLeague to help his confidence and yet very overtly offer nothing after that but a bit of diversion and sarcasm. I've asked several times over, but zero creativity or an ounce of effort.

Why dont you pull some quotes from THJ or Burke about how it helped them instead of asking the same question, over and over, that you clearly dont want an answer to.

Two players on this team, widely quoted, telling anyone who would listen, of the benefits of being sent to the G-League.

Quite a bit of mental gymnastics to ignore that.

Nalod
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2/11/2018  10:17 PM
Burke was out. He had a choice. Go prove yourself or buh bye.
THjr was "Humbled" after a few years in the NBA.
Frank is here half a season and some of you are clamoring he could benefit.
He plays 20 min, is not a defensive liability, in fact, he is impactful.
If he is 19, and his body is not used to playing big minutes yet, they what is 30 min in the League do that 20 in the NBA won't?
Would he climate faster to the NBA by NOT playing in it?
GustavBahler
Posts: 42825
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2/11/2018  10:43 PM
Players who have benefited from the G-League didnt all go for the same exact reason. There is one common denominator though. Something was missing from their game, and going to the G-League somehow helped them find it.

If that is so controversial, or crazy. Dont know what to tell you guys.

nixluva
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2/11/2018  11:27 PM
Seems to me Frank has NBA Skills already. He’s a good defender and passer. Frank helps the team when he’s on the floor from a defensive perspective. That’s of VALUE to the team. Frank was raw Offensively and they knew that. His real skill development is going to come during offseasons.
Great Read For Those Impatient Knicks Fans Hating on Frank Ntilikina -Like always....love em...hate..em..trade em...

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