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If Shareef wants out of Portland... how about this?
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fishmike
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9/8/2004  10:37 AM
If Sweetney has physical limitations they wont surface until he gets older and losses some quickness. He's immovable. I remember watching him defend Jermaine Oneil at one point in the post, and he JO couldnt move him. he made a nice turnaround jumper but he did it with a hand in his face.
What Sweetney has is a nice reach, a low center of gravity that allows him to position himself anywhere he wants, great hands and great quickness... not great speed, but great quickness. Also his body is still developing at 22... supposedly he shed a little more weight and got stronger. We will see come Oct.

The thing with Sweetney was he was a dominating player in school because of size and skill... not just size.
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Bonn1997
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9/8/2004  11:37 AM
Posted by fishmike:

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20030619-010105-8544r.htm
"Sweetney has great hands, good footwork and a 7-foot-1 wingspan."

Trevor Ariza Wingspan: 7'2

http://nba.insidehoops.com/chicago-camp-measurements.shtml

This is about what you would expect as both players are the same height.
That's really exciting about Ariza then. It looks like they both have longer wingspans than the average PF
Nalod
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9/8/2004  11:46 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:

mike sweetney has a nice wingspan, not a long wingspan. Im pretty sure Mike is 6-8 in shoes with a 7-1 wingspan. Just for comparison off the top of my head guys like david west emeka okafor and chris bosh all have wingspans of 7-4 from guys who have been drafted the last 2 years and they are all taller with bosh being the tallest at close to 7 feet. Heck SF like josh howard and even trevor ariza have longer arms than mike. Hes got a nice wingspan but certainly no big deal. remember james lang he was 6-9 1/4 barefoot with a 7-6.5 wingspan, same as KG's. what mike has is upper body bulk to go along with long arms which gives him more space against a defender, but certainly nothing extraordinary. he has skills and uses his body to optimize those skills
Can you provide a link or source for your claim about Ariza and Howard having longer wing spans?

Source: WWW.Freewingspan.come!

What, you need verification of a dudes wingspan?
Bonn1997
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9/8/2004  11:54 AM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:

mike sweetney has a nice wingspan, not a long wingspan. Im pretty sure Mike is 6-8 in shoes with a 7-1 wingspan. Just for comparison off the top of my head guys like david west emeka okafor and chris bosh all have wingspans of 7-4 from guys who have been drafted the last 2 years and they are all taller with bosh being the tallest at close to 7 feet. Heck SF like josh howard and even trevor ariza have longer arms than mike. Hes got a nice wingspan but certainly no big deal. remember james lang he was 6-9 1/4 barefoot with a 7-6.5 wingspan, same as KG's. what mike has is upper body bulk to go along with long arms which gives him more space against a defender, but certainly nothing extraordinary. he has skills and uses his body to optimize those skills
Can you provide a link or source for your claim about Ariza and Howard having longer wing spans?

Source: WWW.Freewingspan.come!

What, you need verification of a dudes wingspan?
huh? Briggs has a reputation of making numbers up ("Allan Houston is at least 47 years old"). I just wanted to know where he was getting the information from. Fish provided links with good info on players' height and wingspan
Bonn1997
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9/8/2004  11:58 AM
Who was a less effective 20/10 player: Abdur-Rahim or Charles Smith on the Clippers?
fishmike
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9/8/2004  12:16 PM
I think Smith was closer to 18/7 but I could be wrong. To answer the question I would have to say they are the same...SARs numbers have never translated into wins for his teams. Neither did Smiths
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
technomaster
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9/8/2004  12:24 PM
Hmmm...

Here are Charles Smith's career stats:
http://probasketball.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=probasketball&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.basketballreference.com%2Fplayers%2Fplayerpage.htm%3Filkid%3DSMITHCH01

SAR's career stats:
http://probasketball.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=probasketball&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.basketballreference.com%2Fplayers%2Fplayerpage.htm%3Filkid%3DSMITHCH01

Well, comparing their stats, Charles Smith's best single season rebounding average (8.2rpg) is equal to SAR's career average. The best he did other than that is 6.7rpg. This is a player who never came back with quite the same game after his initial knee injury w/ the Clips.

It's interesting seeing who basketballreference.com (the source for these stats) compares CS and SAR to.

Included on CS's list: Joe Smith, Antonio McDyess, Jermaine O'Neal, Elton Brand, Brian Grant

Included on SAR's list: Dan Issel, Orlando Woolridge, Kelly Tripucka, Brad Daugherty, Kiki Vandeweghe, Cedric Maxwell, Sidney Moncrief, Kobe Bryant, Grant Hill.

BTW, while people make comments about how good Elton Brand is, aren't his teams about as unsuccessful as SAR's over their careers?
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BRIGGS
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9/8/2004  12:42 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:

mike sweetney has a nice wingspan, not a long wingspan. Im pretty sure Mike is 6-8 in shoes with a 7-1 wingspan. Just for comparison off the top of my head guys like david west emeka okafor and chris bosh all have wingspans of 7-4 from guys who have been drafted the last 2 years and they are all taller with bosh being the tallest at close to 7 feet. Heck SF like josh howard and even trevor ariza have longer arms than mike. Hes got a nice wingspan but certainly no big deal. remember james lang he was 6-9 1/4 barefoot with a 7-6.5 wingspan, same as KG's. what mike has is upper body bulk to go along with long arms which gives him more space against a defender, but certainly nothing extraordinary. he has skills and uses his body to optimize those skills
Can you provide a link or source for your claim about Ariza and Howard having longer wing spans?

Source: WWW.Freewingspan.come!

What, you need verification of a dudes wingspan?
huh? Briggs has a reputation of making numbers up ("Allan Houston is at least 47 years old"). I just wanted to know where he was getting the information from. Fish provided links with good info on players' height and wingspan


im sorry my posts dont satisfy your qualifications. i had to interject because you keep making it sound like mike sweetney has arms as long as freddy krueger or stretchman and you have done so without a link:>) just wanted to set the record straight--:>)


Bonn someone is selling isiah thomas's autographed underwear on eBay--I thought you might be interested
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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9/8/2004  12:55 PM
boxers or briefs?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Marv
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9/8/2004  1:05 PM
Posted by technomaster:

BTW, while people make comments about how good Elton Brand is, aren't his teams about as unsuccessful as SAR's over their careers?

Good observation. Every time I watch him play though I come away extremely impressed with his game and all-out hustle. Not that I care about Chicago's team, but if those lunkheads had kept together the frontline of Brand, Artest and Miller I don't think we'd be having this conversation now about Brand playing on losing teams (not to mention how much they're going to end up regretting letting Crawford go!).
fishmike
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9/8/2004  1:27 PM
both have played on bad teams but the reason is simple; Brand is a two way player. He's a great shotblocker and plays solid man to man defense as well. Plus he's the best offensive rebounder in the NBA. SAR is a good rebounder and is a poor defensive player, both on his man and on help.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
technomaster
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9/8/2004  3:33 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by technomaster:

BTW, while people make comments about how good Elton Brand is, aren't his teams about as unsuccessful as SAR's over their careers?

Good observation. Every time I watch him play though I come away extremely impressed with his game and all-out hustle. Not that I care about Chicago's team, but if those lunkheads had kept together the frontline of Brand, Artest and Miller I don't think we'd be having this conversation now about Brand playing on losing teams (not to mention how much they're going to end up regretting letting Crawford go!).

Well, couldn't they still have had Eddie Curry too? Hrm...

Also, in response to Brand being a two-way player, yeah--- it seems like he's a banger on both ends. He has a physical style that the Knick fans grew accustomed to in the 90s so it's easy to latch on to him. When you look at the thin SAR, you wonder how good a defender he could be--- but he may be adequate.

I'd like to look up what KG, Jermaine O'Neal, and other "top" big men have done to him (Elton Brand included). Hrm... just thinking about that, it sure looks like top PFs in the NBA have grown longer and leaner (versus the bruiser body Karl Malone, Chris Webber, DC, LJ, Barkley types). Among the top PFs in the NBA today: KG, JO, Duncan, Nowitzki...

While head-to-head stats are often misleading (top-scorers rarely guard other team's top scorers) here we go (from the 2003-2004 season):

Nov 1: OT loss to Pacers, SAR 26pts, 10rbds, 3 ast, 8-14fg, 9-10ft. O'Neal 20pts, 6rbds, 2blk. (Artest was probably guarding him--- he put up 22pts, 12rbds, 4ast)

Nov 15: loss to Nets, killed by K-Mart. 12pts, 5rbds, 5fouls. Kmart goes off: 23pts, 14rbds.

Nov 18: Win vs Milwaukee: SAR 27/11. Tim Thomas 17/2. Joe Smith 10/9. Sick, he matched their stats combined.

Nov 21: loss to spurs, blowout 75-114. SAR 16pts, 7rbd, 3stl 27mins. Duncan 25pts, 10rbds, 4blk 24mins!

Nov 24: loss to Detroit: 26pts, 14rbds, 3ast. Ben Wallace 8pts, 15rbds. Prince 22pts, 8rbds

Jan 2: blowout loss vs Min (75-93): SAR 15/6. Garnett 18/15/4. (See next game vs Wolves!)

Jan 13: big win against the Spurs: SAR: 29/10/3. Duncan 28/9.

Feb 4: big win vs T-Wolves (97-89): Outplays Garnett! SAR 32/14/5. KG 17/12/6.


Well, this small sampling shows that SAR seems to show some spunk, especially against the top players. I found the stats of that 1 Milwaukee game really amusing.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
Bonn1997
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9/8/2004  9:30 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:

mike sweetney has a nice wingspan, not a long wingspan. Im pretty sure Mike is 6-8 in shoes with a 7-1 wingspan. Just for comparison off the top of my head guys like david west emeka okafor and chris bosh all have wingspans of 7-4 from guys who have been drafted the last 2 years and they are all taller with bosh being the tallest at close to 7 feet. Heck SF like josh howard and even trevor ariza have longer arms than mike. Hes got a nice wingspan but certainly no big deal. remember james lang he was 6-9 1/4 barefoot with a 7-6.5 wingspan, same as KG's. what mike has is upper body bulk to go along with long arms which gives him more space against a defender, but certainly nothing extraordinary. he has skills and uses his body to optimize those skills
Can you provide a link or source for your claim about Ariza and Howard having longer wing spans?

Source: WWW.Freewingspan.come!

What, you need verification of a dudes wingspan?
huh? Briggs has a reputation of making numbers up ("Allan Houston is at least 47 years old"). I just wanted to know where he was getting the information from. Fish provided links with good info on players' height and wingspan


im sorry my posts dont satisfy your qualifications. i had to interject because you keep making it sound like mike sweetney has arms as long as freddy krueger or stretchman and you have done so without a link:>) just wanted to set the record straight--:>)


Bonn someone is selling isiah thomas's autographed underwear on eBay--I thought you might be interested
Thanks for letting me know. I'm sure you can get autographed pair from your favorite GM--Scott Layden. I'm sure Islesfan has plenty of them.

Thanks for bringing up the info on Sweetney's wingspan. You confirmed what I already knew--that Sweetney has a longer wingspan than most PFs
Bonn1997
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9/8/2004  9:46 PM
Forgetting their contracts, who do you think helps you win more games (taking both offense and defense into account): Kurt Thomas or Shareef Abdur-Rahim?
crzymdups
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9/8/2004  10:10 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Forgetting their contracts, who do you think helps you win more games (taking both offense and defense into account): Kurt Thomas or Shareef Abdur-Rahim?

Reef.

Question for you: Who is more likely to win in the playoffs? Reef or Sweetney? I'm not sure I know the answer...but I'll throw it to y'all...
¿ △ ?
Silverfuel
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9/8/2004  10:10 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:

mike sweetney has a nice wingspan, not a long wingspan. Im pretty sure Mike is 6-8 in shoes with a 7-1 wingspan. Just for comparison off the top of my head guys like david west emeka okafor and chris bosh all have wingspans of 7-4 from guys who have been drafted the last 2 years and they are all taller with bosh being the tallest at close to 7 feet. Heck SF like josh howard and even trevor ariza have longer arms than mike. Hes got a nice wingspan but certainly no big deal. remember james lang he was 6-9 1/4 barefoot with a 7-6.5 wingspan, same as KG's. what mike has is upper body bulk to go along with long arms which gives him more space against a defender, but certainly nothing extraordinary. he has skills and uses his body to optimize those skills
Can you provide a link or source for your claim about Ariza and Howard having longer wing spans?

Source: WWW.Freewingspan.come!

What, you need verification of a dudes wingspan?
huh? Briggs has a reputation of making numbers up ("Allan Houston is at least 47 years old"). I just wanted to know where he was getting the information from. Fish provided links with good info on players' height and wingspan


im sorry my posts dont satisfy your qualifications. i had to interject because you keep making it sound like mike sweetney has arms as long as freddy krueger or stretchman and you have done so without a link:>) just wanted to set the record straight--:>)


Bonn someone is selling isiah thomas's autographed underwear on eBay--I thought you might be interested
Thanks for letting me know. I'm sure you can get autographed pair from your favorite GM--Scott Layden. I'm sure Islesfan has plenty of them.

Thanks for bringing up the info on Sweetney's wingspan. You confirmed what I already knew--that Sweetney has a longer wingspan than most PFs
This is almost as messy as my Anti-Houston posts get.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Bonn1997
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9/8/2004  10:13 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Forgetting their contracts, who do you think helps you win more games (taking both offense and defense into account): Kurt Thomas or Shareef Abdur-Rahim?

Reef.
I assume that means offense is more important to you than defense. (You don't actually think Shareef is the better defender, right?)

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 09/08/2004 22:26:05]
Silverfuel
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9/8/2004  10:13 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Question for you: Who is more likely to win in the playoffs? Reef or Sweetney? I'm not sure I know the answer...but I'll throw it to y'all...
I am a real Knick fan and also a big Basketball fan. I think, IN THE PLAYOFFS, Shareef would be a bigger winner than Sweetney just because I love the way he turns to the basket.

Even though he has his back to the basket in the post, its like this guy was built to play b.ball cause when he turns, he is really close to the hoop. This does not mean Sweetney wont become really good.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Bonn1997
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9/8/2004  10:16 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by crzymdups:

Question for you: Who is more likely to win in the playoffs? Reef or Sweetney? I'm not sure I know the answer...but I'll throw it to y'all...
I am a real Knick fan and also a big Basketball fan. I think, IN THE PLAYOFFS, Shareef would be a bigger winner than Sweetney just because I love the way he turns to the basket.

Even though he has his back to the basket in the post, its like this guy was built to play b.ball cause when he turns, he is really close to the hoop. This does not mean Sweetney wont become really good.
It's really just speculation. We don't know how good Sweetney will be. We at least have good idea of Shareef's strengths and weaknesses by now.
crzymdups
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9/8/2004  11:04 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by crzymdups:

Question for you: Who is more likely to win in the playoffs? Reef or Sweetney? I'm not sure I know the answer...but I'll throw it to y'all...
I am a real Knick fan and also a big Basketball fan. I think, IN THE PLAYOFFS, Shareef would be a bigger winner than Sweetney just because I love the way he turns to the basket.

Even though he has his back to the basket in the post, its like this guy was built to play b.ball cause when he turns, he is really close to the hoop. This does not mean Sweetney wont become really good.
It's really just speculation. We don't know how good Sweetney will be. We at least have good idea of Shareef's strengths and weaknesses by now.

My point was that while Reef would absolutely be a huge upgrade over Kurt (which is pretty undeniable).

I don't know whether Reef is an upgrade over Sweets. Not sure. Sweets could be a much better rebounder and defender. COULD.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 09/08/2004 23:05:07]
¿ △ ?
If Shareef wants out of Portland... how about this?

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