fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

MIAMI — [b]Kristaps Porzingis has struggled recently living up to the designation as Knicks franchise player, admitting fatigue through 38 games.

Two European-based scouts aren’t surprised, suggesting the natural makeup of an international player isn’t best suited for that role. They see Porzingis as an All-Star — just not necessarily a superstar.
[/b]
Tim Shea, a former European scout with the Knicks and the Bobcats/Hornets who has lived for years in Barcelona, Spain, said it’s uncommon for a European to embrace mentally that status as an NBA franchise guy in the same way as an American-born AAU player. Only Dirk Nowitzki — and it took him many years — fully accepted that franchise-player responsibility.

“It’s because Europeans have learned the game as a ‘team game’ above all,’’ Shea told The Post. “[Porzingis] is at the very best an All-Star like Pau Gasol that can assist and become a great complementary player to some NBA big gun. He can only be cast as a piece of a rebuild that is a long way from anywhere.”

SEE ALSO
Kristaps Porzingis admits this is getting too much for him
Kristaps Porzingis admits this is getting too much for him
Shea said the “KP’’ moniker should now stand for “Keep Plowing’’ as he battles enormous expectations. Porzingis kicked up a fuss when he mentioned Thursday after a loss in Washington he was “so tired.” He is looking for a second wind to the season and is anxiously awaiting Tim Hardaway Jr.’s expected January return.
Never having a European-born coach — or one with international coaching experience — doesn’t help matters, according to Shea. The former Knicks scout who was opposed to the drafting of Frederic Weis feels an American coach may sometimes not relate fully to an international player’s mindset.

The Knicks felt they needed to trade Carmelo Anthony to thrust Porzingis into the face-of-the-franchise position, but he’s only 22 years old and in his third season. After an MVP-like start, Porzingis’ shooting percentage has dipped to 43.9 percent. In the last 19 games he has shot 39.9 percent.

With All-Star voting beginning on Christmas, his downturn could hurt his chances of being named a starter. He is currently fourth among Eastern Conference frontcourt players in the fan voting, behind Giannis Antetokounmpo, LeBron James and Joel Embiid.

“If the Garden continues to think and sell that Porzingis is a franchise player, they might as well let Willy Hernangomez play the point,’’ one NBA scout with European connections said. “It is not going to happen. KP has only played on a losing team as a pro in Spain and a losing team in New York. They have a lot of good, young Europeans — KP, Frank (Ntilikina), (Enes) Kanter, Willy. We can now start to care about the team, but please don’t believe KP will lead you to the end of the yellow brick road by himself. It’s idiotic to put him in that position.’’

Modal Trigger
Porzingis’ offensive rating was 109.2 in his first 19 games, but it is 102.2 since Dec. 6.Charles Wenzelberg
Porzingis, who is averaging 23.7 points, scored just 2 points in the second half in Washington and was inactive defensively. The burden of leading the Knicks every game has taken its toll. The Knicks are 1-6 in their last seven games, falling two games below .500 at 18-20 for the first time since they started 1-3.

Despite his dire words, Porzingis hoped the good weather in Miami would resuscitate him. Though Florida also had a chill — much like Porzingis’ mid-range jumper — with temperatures in the 50’s.

“Little bumps and bruises and things like that that you play through affects you a little bit,” Porzingis said. “Once I’m playing I want to delete that completely out of my head and not think about it. As you go forward, more and more stuff add up, but it’s normal. It’s nothing to keep complaining about. We just have to keep pushing forward, get as much rest as I can and try to be as fresh as I can for every game.”r every game.”

Some truly believe Melo was holding KP back, no... the triangle and phil was holding everybody back. Now we're back to having one star, no real pg that's suited for this system, and a 2nd scorer whose injured. Starting out just like the melo ERA, Amare hurt, and missing the correct vet pg (except kidd's one season) for melo

How'd you extrapolate all that from the bold? Melo was holding back KP by jacking up contested mid-range J's. Was the case even before Phil demanded more triangle useage at the end of the year. Rose held KP back too. No need to bring this up. Melo learned his lesson in OKC and is playing within himself. Remember, the triangle didn't force Melo to gun or dog it consistently on defense.

So who's holding back poor KP now? Melo was holding back KP by doing what Melo did his whole career? Score the ball? Rose held back KP by not doing what? Watching him clunk 3's on kickouts?

So Melo's not dogging in on defense and is now leading the break in OKC? Melo's doing the same **** there he was doing here; he's standing outside the three or posting up and hitting turnarounds.

So you come out of your hole, declare Melo's still the golden mooby and go back in if you dont see your shadow? Like that?

Good one.

Wass wrong fishy, your little Latvian boyfriend isn't living up to your wet dreams? And you still don't respond to questions. Is that how this works? Watch any Mooby highlights lately?

I only dream of players who play hard on defense. KP is living up great! Sorry what questions should be I be responding to?

Wow, he's 7'3 and he's a great interior defender. Whoop de dam ****in doo. Maybe if he wasn't living up so great, he wouldn't be so tired?

And so, Mooby's nothing defensively, but he obviously is not the reason KP was being "held back". By golly, KP was part of the number one rim defense 2 seasons ago, remember that? How did your hated Mooby affect that dream?

Better yet, don't bother. You hate the Mooby so much you don't even read.

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

MIAMI — [b]Kristaps Porzingis has struggled recently living up to the designation as Knicks franchise player, admitting fatigue through 38 games.

Two European-based scouts aren’t surprised, suggesting the natural makeup of an international player isn’t best suited for that role. They see Porzingis as an All-Star — just not necessarily a superstar.
[/b]
Tim Shea, a former European scout with the Knicks and the Bobcats/Hornets who has lived for years in Barcelona, Spain, said it’s uncommon for a European to embrace mentally that status as an NBA franchise guy in the same way as an American-born AAU player. Only Dirk Nowitzki — and it took him many years — fully accepted that franchise-player responsibility.

“It’s because Europeans have learned the game as a ‘team game’ above all,’’ Shea told The Post. “[Porzingis] is at the very best an All-Star like Pau Gasol that can assist and become a great complementary player to some NBA big gun. He can only be cast as a piece of a rebuild that is a long way from anywhere.”

SEE ALSO
Kristaps Porzingis admits this is getting too much for him
Kristaps Porzingis admits this is getting too much for him
Shea said the “KP’’ moniker should now stand for “Keep Plowing’’ as he battles enormous expectations. Porzingis kicked up a fuss when he mentioned Thursday after a loss in Washington he was “so tired.” He is looking for a second wind to the season and is anxiously awaiting Tim Hardaway Jr.’s expected January return.
Never having a European-born coach — or one with international coaching experience — doesn’t help matters, according to Shea. The former Knicks scout who was opposed to the drafting of Frederic Weis feels an American coach may sometimes not relate fully to an international player’s mindset.

The Knicks felt they needed to trade Carmelo Anthony to thrust Porzingis into the face-of-the-franchise position, but he’s only 22 years old and in his third season. After an MVP-like start, Porzingis’ shooting percentage has dipped to 43.9 percent. In the last 19 games he has shot 39.9 percent.

With All-Star voting beginning on Christmas, his downturn could hurt his chances of being named a starter. He is currently fourth among Eastern Conference frontcourt players in the fan voting, behind Giannis Antetokounmpo, LeBron James and Joel Embiid.

“If the Garden continues to think and sell that Porzingis is a franchise player, they might as well let Willy Hernangomez play the point,’’ one NBA scout with European connections said. “It is not going to happen. KP has only played on a losing team as a pro in Spain and a losing team in New York. They have a lot of good, young Europeans — KP, Frank (Ntilikina), (Enes) Kanter, Willy. We can now start to care about the team, but please don’t believe KP will lead you to the end of the yellow brick road by himself. It’s idiotic to put him in that position.’’

Modal Trigger
Porzingis’ offensive rating was 109.2 in his first 19 games, but it is 102.2 since Dec. 6.Charles Wenzelberg
Porzingis, who is averaging 23.7 points, scored just 2 points in the second half in Washington and was inactive defensively. The burden of leading the Knicks every game has taken its toll. The Knicks are 1-6 in their last seven games, falling two games below .500 at 18-20 for the first time since they started 1-3.

Despite his dire words, Porzingis hoped the good weather in Miami would resuscitate him. Though Florida also had a chill — much like Porzingis’ mid-range jumper — with temperatures in the 50’s.

“Little bumps and bruises and things like that that you play through affects you a little bit,” Porzingis said. “Once I’m playing I want to delete that completely out of my head and not think about it. As you go forward, more and more stuff add up, but it’s normal. It’s nothing to keep complaining about. We just have to keep pushing forward, get as much rest as I can and try to be as fresh as I can for every game.”r every game.”

Some truly believe Melo was holding KP back, no... the triangle and phil was holding everybody back. Now we're back to having one star, no real pg that's suited for this system, and a 2nd scorer whose injured. Starting out just like the melo ERA, Amare hurt, and missing the correct vet pg (except kidd's one season) for melo

How'd you extrapolate all that from the bold? Melo was holding back KP by jacking up contested mid-range J's. Was the case even before Phil demanded more triangle useage at the end of the year. Rose held KP back too. No need to bring this up. Melo learned his lesson in OKC and is playing within himself. Remember, the triangle didn't force Melo to gun or dog it consistently on defense.

So who's holding back poor KP now? Melo was holding back KP by doing what Melo did his whole career? Score the ball? Rose held back KP by not doing what? Watching him clunk 3's on kickouts?

So Melo's not dogging in on defense and is now leading the break in OKC? Melo's doing the same **** there he was doing here; he's standing outside the three or posting up and hitting turnarounds.

So you come out of your hole, declare Melo's still the golden mooby and go back in if you dont see your shadow? Like that?

Good one.

Wass wrong fishy, your little Latvian boyfriend isn't living up to your wet dreams? And you still don't respond to questions. Is that how this works? Watch any Mooby highlights lately?

I only dream of players who play hard on defense. KP is living up great! Sorry what questions should be I be responding to?

I only dream of players who play hard on defense There are no players on the Earth who can defend great NBA players consistently and successfully. The player that wins is a player with great offense who also controls the dribble. Steph Curry--not guardable--so defense only means so much. You want effort but give me the guy who can make 6-7 three's first--Ill deal with the defense after I start scoring 115.

Guess what. We got that. And his name isnt Will Barton.

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

MIAMI — [b]Kristaps Porzingis has struggled recently living up to the designation as Knicks franchise player, admitting fatigue through 38 games.

Two European-based scouts aren’t surprised, suggesting the natural makeup of an international player isn’t best suited for that role. They see Porzingis as an All-Star — just not necessarily a superstar.
[/b]
Tim Shea, a former European scout with the Knicks and the Bobcats/Hornets who has lived for years in Barcelona, Spain, said it’s uncommon for a European to embrace mentally that status as an NBA franchise guy in the same way as an American-born AAU player. Only Dirk Nowitzki — and it took him many years — fully accepted that franchise-player responsibility.

“It’s because Europeans have learned the game as a ‘team game’ above all,’’ Shea told The Post. “[Porzingis] is at the very best an All-Star like Pau Gasol that can assist and become a great complementary player to some NBA big gun. He can only be cast as a piece of a rebuild that is a long way from anywhere.”

SEE ALSO
Kristaps Porzingis admits this is getting too much for him
Kristaps Porzingis admits this is getting too much for him
Shea said the “KP’’ moniker should now stand for “Keep Plowing’’ as he battles enormous expectations. Porzingis kicked up a fuss when he mentioned Thursday after a loss in Washington he was “so tired.” He is looking for a second wind to the season and is anxiously awaiting Tim Hardaway Jr.’s expected January return.
Never having a European-born coach — or one with international coaching experience — doesn’t help matters, according to Shea. The former Knicks scout who was opposed to the drafting of Frederic Weis feels an American coach may sometimes not relate fully to an international player’s mindset.

The Knicks felt they needed to trade Carmelo Anthony to thrust Porzingis into the face-of-the-franchise position, but he’s only 22 years old and in his third season. After an MVP-like start, Porzingis’ shooting percentage has dipped to 43.9 percent. In the last 19 games he has shot 39.9 percent.

With All-Star voting beginning on Christmas, his downturn could hurt his chances of being named a starter. He is currently fourth among Eastern Conference frontcourt players in the fan voting, behind Giannis Antetokounmpo, LeBron James and Joel Embiid.

“If the Garden continues to think and sell that Porzingis is a franchise player, they might as well let Willy Hernangomez play the point,’’ one NBA scout with European connections said. “It is not going to happen. KP has only played on a losing team as a pro in Spain and a losing team in New York. They have a lot of good, young Europeans — KP, Frank (Ntilikina), (Enes) Kanter, Willy. We can now start to care about the team, but please don’t believe KP will lead you to the end of the yellow brick road by himself. It’s idiotic to put him in that position.’’

Modal Trigger
Porzingis’ offensive rating was 109.2 in his first 19 games, but it is 102.2 since Dec. 6.Charles Wenzelberg
Porzingis, who is averaging 23.7 points, scored just 2 points in the second half in Washington and was inactive defensively. The burden of leading the Knicks every game has taken its toll. The Knicks are 1-6 in their last seven games, falling two games below .500 at 18-20 for the first time since they started 1-3.

Despite his dire words, Porzingis hoped the good weather in Miami would resuscitate him. Though Florida also had a chill — much like Porzingis’ mid-range jumper — with temperatures in the 50’s.

“Little bumps and bruises and things like that that you play through affects you a little bit,” Porzingis said. “Once I’m playing I want to delete that completely out of my head and not think about it. As you go forward, more and more stuff add up, but it’s normal. It’s nothing to keep complaining about. We just have to keep pushing forward, get as much rest as I can and try to be as fresh as I can for every game.”r every game.”

Some truly believe Melo was holding KP back, no... the triangle and phil was holding everybody back. Now we're back to having one star, no real pg that's suited for this system, and a 2nd scorer whose injured. Starting out just like the melo ERA, Amare hurt, and missing the correct vet pg (except kidd's one season) for melo

How'd you extrapolate all that from the bold? Melo was holding back KP by jacking up contested mid-range J's. Was the case even before Phil demanded more triangle useage at the end of the year. Rose held KP back too. No need to bring this up. Melo learned his lesson in OKC and is playing within himself. Remember, the triangle didn't force Melo to gun or dog it consistently on defense.

So who's holding back poor KP now? Melo was holding back KP by doing what Melo did his whole career? Score the ball? Rose held back KP by not doing what? Watching him clunk 3's on kickouts?

So Melo's not dogging in on defense and is now leading the break in OKC? Melo's doing the same **** there he was doing here; he's standing outside the three or posting up and hitting turnarounds.

So you come out of your hole, declare Melo's still the golden mooby and go back in if you dont see your shadow? Like that?

Good one.

Wass wrong fishy, your little Latvian boyfriend isn't living up to your wet dreams? And you still don't respond to questions. Is that how this works? Watch any Mooby highlights lately?

I only dream of players who play hard on defense. KP is living up great! Sorry what questions should be I be responding to?

Yeah, that's nice. Try this one: do you ever dream of players actually playing in the playoffs?

Wow, he's 7'3 and he's a great interior defender. Whoop de dam ****in doo. Maybe if he wasn't living up so great, he wouldn't be so tired?

And so, Mooby's nothing defensively, but he obviously is not the reason KP was being "held back". By golly, KP was part of the number one rim defense 2 seasons ago, remember that? How did your hated Mooby affect that dream?

Better yet, don't bother. You hate the Mooby so much you don't even read.

Anyway the days of winning with one Batman and Robin are over. Now all teams have a few Batmans on the same team.

State - Durant, Curry
Houston - Paul, Harden
Cleveland (when they won) - James, Irving

I don't know if any franchise player having to play with as little offensive talent as KP has the last two months. His second option or Robin has been CLee or Kanter. His PG is Jack.

The fact that he is even willing and able mentally to carry the team in this situation is amazing development IMO

He went from being able to hide behind Melo and attack the D on surprise to bring able to do it all on his own. At just 2 full years into the league.

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:KP is definitely a player that can play the Batman role
Issue is if he can physically hold up season after season year after year in that role.

Anyway the days of winning with one Batman and Robin are over. Now all teams have a few Batmans on the same team.

State - Durant, Curry
Houston - Paul, Harden
Cleveland (when they won) - James, Irving

I don't know if any franchise player having to play with as little offensive talent as KP has the last two months. His second option or Robin has been CLee or Kanter. His PG is Jack.

The fact that he is even willing and able mentally to carry the team in this situation is amazing development IMO

This whole Batman/Robin thing is weird though. Porzingis can be the main guy, but he needs another main guy. Curry/Durant are both main guys, neither is a batman or robin. Porzingis will be a 25 ppg player for a long time as well as a All-NBA defender level player. That is a guy you can build around. But we need to find other great players to compete for a title. Whether or not that player is a little better or a little worse than Porzingis is irrelevant.

You get it my friend
Good post

nyknickzingis wrote:

Gudris wrote:KP is legit number 1 option, problem with Knicks today is we don't have real number 2,3,4 and 5 option that can take load of KP in every game.

One day Beasly steps up, one day Kanter or Lee, but we need this every game, Knicks need time to grow and update

it looks like we will miss the playoffs this year also

Bingo
How many stars could carry a team whose second option is CLee or Beasley?
Défense licks their chops.
They know they can sink in on KP.

KP himself is tired but is also getting virtually zero easy baskets a game. Meanwhile also protecting the basket.

Excuses excuses excuses. Funny..so much defense for KP needing more help from the same guys who thought Melo had enought and blamed him for not doing what your excusing KP for not doing now. Dont see why this team should not be a legit playoff team. Specially with Timmy healthy. This is the deepest we have been in years, Only thing we are missing is a top PG and a legit 3. But again, as we stand we should be a 5 to 7 seed.

As for thread topic. Think KP definately needs a number 1. And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch you have to understand todays NBA and high level basketball. KP is just not a creator. NO knock on him girls, just a fact that a 7'3 is not a guy that can break down a defense and create for himself or OTHERS. He needs a guy that can do that for him and enable him to get open looks. You look at all the really good teams today and they all have this. NO has Davis, who is by far better than KP, and they have not won anything because of it. Again, no knock on KP but he needs a guy that can create and get him the ball in the righ spots. Irving would have been a perfect piece to go with KP. Dont hear much from the guys on here that thought Irving was over rated.

If Knicks are willing to stick to a plan regarding personal, their age and their salary with a long view then there is little to discuss. This team if healthy has playoff potential and if that's the ceiling so be it. We as fans can come up with scenarios that fix what is not working with change or "Frank needs to......" statements but really that's not whats happening.

IN a perfect world we sell our assets that are desirable and fit our long view. If the return is not acceptable and does not fit our plan then let Kanter or KOQ walk.
At this juncture Stretching Noah by a buy out does not really move the dial enough to do so. If a player were to become available and its a great deal and then his salary stretched is the only obstacle left then I suppose its logical.

Nicky Batum no. In three years he is gone and we need a younger player there with upside.
Isiah Thomas no. He does not fit the age test and salary demands might be too high.

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

Gudris wrote:KP is legit number 1 option, problem with Knicks today is we don't have real number 2,3,4 and 5 option that can take load of KP in every game.

One day Beasly steps up, one day Kanter or Lee, but we need this every game, Knicks need time to grow and update

it looks like we will miss the playoffs this year also

Bingo
How many stars could carry a team whose second option is CLee or Beasley?
Défense licks their chops.
They know they can sink in on KP.

KP himself is tired but is also getting virtually zero easy baskets a game. Meanwhile also protecting the basket.

Excuses excuses excuses. Funny..so much defense for KP needing more help from the same guys who thought Melo had enought and blamed him for not doing what your excusing KP for not doing now.

As for thread topic. Think KP definately needs a number 1. And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch you have to understand todays NBA and high level basketball. KP is just not a creator. NO knock on him girls, just a fact that a 7'3 is not a guy that can break down a defense and create for himself or OTHERS. He needs a guy that can do that for him and enable him to get open looks. You look at all the really good teams today and they all have this. NO has Davis, who is by far better than KP, and they have not won anything because of it. Again, no knock on KP but he needs a guy that can create and get him the ball in the righ spots. Irving would have been a perfect piece to go with KP. Dont hear much from the guys on here that thought Irving was over rated.

I just think were using him wrong, we are trying to turn him into this post up big man(with horrible spacing to boot)in this era of basketball. The word post up is so rarely used in the NbA because everyone's facing up, shooting threes, back doors, and PnR.

I know JH loves a 3 point guard alignment, lived by that (when he coach the suns)with knight, Bledsoe, and Gordan, but when he puts baker, frank, and jack on the floor at the same time, that doesn't bode well for KP. were ok defensively, but the offense becomes bease ISO's, and Kp,s forced/rush mid range shots.

I know Baker plays hard and does the little things, but he can't be a rotation player. He hasn't brought anything on the offensive end, and we need someone who can shoot or drive. I would rather play Dotson and try to develop him as a 3pt specialist.

But in getting to the near-.500 record we are now, we've seen tremendous development and chemistry develop. I think we can safely say that most of the 25 and under players (except Willy) have shown growth over the course of this season. Frank, KP, THJR, Kanter, Doug, Baker, and to some extent, Dotson.

I think the team needs another legit scoring threat. I thought with Hardaway out, it would open up room for Kanter to score more, but the void really is scoring from the perimeter.

Let's not forget that with THJR out has taken its toll on a number of other Knicks (KP, Frank, Kanter) as we've dealt with a slew of lingering injuries.

I think this team has a lot of upside through player development. Obviously players like Jack aren't part of the long term plan, but I think we can compete for a top 4 slot if we stand pat over the next 2-3 years and allow the team to grow. I can't say whether TH JR is or isn't the answer as a Robin (or Batman)... but once we feel good about a second scoring option, it becomes easier to determine what type of output we need from role players on the team. If McDermott/Lee/Beasley/Ntilikina can be counted on for around 10ppg, we'll be in a decent place.

If we go back into revisionist history, imagine a world where we didn't trade Melo, but Phil was gone and Hornacek was allowed to coach any way he liked. We wouldn't have gotten Super Kanter nor Super Doug, and we'd likely have seem Willy getting significant minutes. Mind you, Willy is 3rd on the depth chart behind KOQ, so we'd likely have KOQ as our starter and Willy off the bench. But we'd have THJR and Melo at the 2/3 spots, with Lee backing up both spots.

We'd have dramatically more scoring punch, and despite ISO Melo, he's still a very capable passer and playmaker. But yeah, we'd have a legit second star, argubly 3 presuming THJr would have shown what he had before the injury in a lineup that included Melo.