nixluva wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:Nix.. use your eyes man. Last year's team failed the eye test plain and simple. This was not a case of being in every game and not being able to finish. The team's offensive and defensive ranks show everything. The were average offensively and abysmal defensively. They wrer a run of the mill 31 win team. There is plenty of upside to this year's roster but seeing is believing. This is sports so everything else is just noise.

It would not surprise me to see DadMelo return happy to have the roster infused with his buddies Beas and Timmy. If that happens we could easily win 45 games in this conference, heck maybe more. Is that likely?
It would also not surprise me to see Melo traded before the first game, for the new parts to struggle, for KP to have one of his lulls, etc etc.. and we are on our way to another 30ish win season.

Its the Knicks. Until Perry/Mills show otherwise, as in you see it on the court in wins and defense and effort there are Dolan's Knicks and Vegas is spot on until proven otherwise.

I never said they were in every game and I saw everything you saw last year. My point is that there were ENOUGH games against teams that were at their level where the difference in a win or loss was not because of a lack of talent compared to the other team but rather the Effort and Execution not being up to par. That's how you LOSE 16 games by 5 or less. That's the difference between going 41-41 and 31-51. It's not as impossible as you and others are making it seem. They were not always outclassed but rather they underperformed against similar competition.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2723737-nba-schedule-2017-18-team-by-team-record-predictions-and-playoff-odds

Nix, the Kings lost 16 games by six points or less. Lost another two overtime games by a greater margin than six. The Lakers lost 14 games by six points or less, and another handful by seven.

Your point is understood, what you're overlooking is you assume 16 is an unusual number. 16 sounds like a lot to you, but it's not, that is just how the NBA game is played.

Your whole premise is based on the idea the Knicks played and more close games that could've gone either way in the last four minutes than is typical for 31 when team. That they unusually lost a large number of close games.

That is just not accurate, however.

I'm not saying that it's unusual. I'm saying those were the missed opportunities this team failed to take advantage of. The point is that the Knicks had legit chances to win those games and failed more due to POOR EFFORT AND EXECUTION rather than being outclassed.

You are saying it's unusual. Read your last sentence again. You're implying that the average 31-win/3.7 differential NBA team gets "outclassed," but the way the Knicks lost implies are not outclassed. Again the problem is Knicks weren't any more or less outclassed the Kings were. You're giving them credit for you something you've assumed is atypical, which it's not, rather than perfectly typical, which it is.

You're declaring the Knicks lost in a specific that shows promise. What you're not acknowledging is the Knicks lost in a way that's perfectly average and expected for a 31-win team.

The Knicks should not have been a 31-51 team. They did not give Max Effort or fully follow the coaching and execute the plays properly. What i've been saying is exactly what I mean and nothing more. Watching the Knicks last year they lost about 16 games that were winnable and often the reasons they lost came down to Poor Effort and Execution. Things that they could actually control. They couldn't change their talent level, but they COULD control how much Effort they put into games and how well they executed down the stretch of many winnable games. This is the case for ALL NBA teams but i'm only concerned with the Knicks. We had some LAZY and STUBBORN players and their attitude infected the rest of the roster.

You just described every losing team in NBA.

The Pros are pretty much expressing that the Knicks are unchanged and i'm saying that from an INTANGIBLES aspect that there is a LOT of difference between last year and this year's roster. The Pros are predicting another 30 win team and I expect them to exceed this prediction. They had enough talent to have won more last year but the Mental Disposition was ALL WRONG. I think this team will have a much better Mental Disposition this year.

Multiple pros nailed their winning percentage the last two years, and they never even cared to consider intangibles or mental disposition.

If I were you, that would make me second-guess the value of intangibles and mental disposition.

Knickoftime wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:Nix.. use your eyes man. Last year's team failed the eye test plain and simple. This was not a case of being in every game and not being able to finish. The team's offensive and defensive ranks show everything. The were average offensively and abysmal defensively. They wrer a run of the mill 31 win team. There is plenty of upside to this year's roster but seeing is believing. This is sports so everything else is just noise.

It would not surprise me to see DadMelo return happy to have the roster infused with his buddies Beas and Timmy. If that happens we could easily win 45 games in this conference, heck maybe more. Is that likely?
It would also not surprise me to see Melo traded before the first game, for the new parts to struggle, for KP to have one of his lulls, etc etc.. and we are on our way to another 30ish win season.

Its the Knicks. Until Perry/Mills show otherwise, as in you see it on the court in wins and defense and effort there are Dolan's Knicks and Vegas is spot on until proven otherwise.

I never said they were in every game and I saw everything you saw last year. My point is that there were ENOUGH games against teams that were at their level where the difference in a win or loss was not because of a lack of talent compared to the other team but rather the Effort and Execution not being up to par. That's how you LOSE 16 games by 5 or less. That's the difference between going 41-41 and 31-51. It's not as impossible as you and others are making it seem. They were not always outclassed but rather they underperformed against similar competition.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2723737-nba-schedule-2017-18-team-by-team-record-predictions-and-playoff-odds

Nix, the Kings lost 16 games by six points or less. Lost another two overtime games by a greater margin than six. The Lakers lost 14 games by six points or less, and another handful by seven.

Your point is understood, what you're overlooking is you assume 16 is an unusual number. 16 sounds like a lot to you, but it's not, that is just how the NBA game is played.

Your whole premise is based on the idea the Knicks played and more close games that could've gone either way in the last four minutes than is typical for 31 when team. That they unusually lost a large number of close games.

That is just not accurate, however.

I'm not saying that it's unusual. I'm saying those were the missed opportunities this team failed to take advantage of. The point is that the Knicks had legit chances to win those games and failed more due to POOR EFFORT AND EXECUTION rather than being outclassed.

You are saying it's unusual. Read your last sentence again. You're implying that the average 31-win/3.7 differential NBA team gets "outclassed," but the way the Knicks lost implies are not outclassed. Again the problem is Knicks weren't any more or less outclassed the Kings were. You're giving them credit for you something you've assumed is atypical, which it's not, rather than perfectly typical, which it is.

You're declaring the Knicks lost in a specific that shows promise. What you're not acknowledging is the Knicks lost in a way that's perfectly average and expected for a 31-win team.

The Knicks should not have been a 31-51 team. They did not give Max Effort or fully follow the coaching and execute the plays properly. What i've been saying is exactly what I mean and nothing more. Watching the Knicks last year they lost about 16 games that were winnable and often the reasons they lost came down to Poor Effort and Execution. Things that they could actually control. They couldn't change their talent level, but they COULD control how much Effort they put into games and how well they executed down the stretch of many winnable games. This is the case for ALL NBA teams but i'm only concerned with the Knicks. We had some LAZY and STUBBORN players and their attitude infected the rest of the roster.

You just described every losing team in NBA.

The Pros are pretty much expressing that the Knicks are unchanged and i'm saying that from an INTANGIBLES aspect that there is a LOT of difference between last year and this year's roster. The Pros are predicting another 30 win team and I expect them to exceed this prediction. They had enough talent to have won more last year but the Mental Disposition was ALL WRONG. I think this team will have a much better Mental Disposition this year.

Multiple pros nailed their winning percentage the last two years, and they never even cared to consider intangibles or mental disposition.

If I were you, that would make me second-guess the value of intangibles and mental disposition.

What i'm trying to describe to you is the difference between being the Knicks last year or being the Bucks or Heat. The Knicks underachieved whereas the Bucks 42-40 and Heat 41-41 overachieved.

FiveThirtyEight
Team-by-team forecast Forecast from October 26, 2016
ELO     CarmELO         Team            Conf    Record  Differential
1663	1780	-49 GS	Warriors	West	64-18	+10.9
1699	1662	+5 CLE	Cavaliers	East	57-25	+7.2
1725	1666	+49 SA	Spurs    	West	57-25	+6.7
1569	1603	+0 TOR	Raptors	        East	51-31	+4.2
1685	1599	+0 OKC	Thunder	        West	50-32	+3.3
1525	1590	-8 UTA	Jazz	        West	50-32	+3.6
1540	1562	+0 BOS	Celtics	        East	48-34	+2.5
1584	1581	+0 LAC	Clippers	West	48-34	+2.4
1590	1574	+8 POR	Trail Blazers   West	47-35	+2.3
1434	1564	+0 MIN	Timberwolves	West	46-36	+1.9
1546	1534	+0 CHA	Hornets	        East	45-37	+1.4
1467	1536	+0 CHI	Bulls	        East	45-37	+1.5
1528	1553	+0 HOU	Rockets	        West	45-37	+1.4
1497	1478	+0 DET	Pistons	        East	39-43	-0.9
1446	1486	+0 DEN	Nuggets	        West	40-42	-0.4
1524	1469	+0 WSH	Wizards	        East	38-44	-1.2
1571	1458	+0 ATL	Hawks	        East	38-44	-1.4
1454	1465	+0 ORL	Magic	        East	38-44	-1.5
1503	1472	+0 DAL	Mavericks	West	37-45	-1.7
1533	1448	+0 IND	Pacers	        East	37-45	-1.8
1411	1440	-5 NY	Knicks   	East	35-47	-2.7
1420	1407	+0 MIL	Bucks	        East	32-50	-3.6
1574	1416	+0 MIA	Heat	        East	33-49	-3.3
1445	1449	+0 SAC	Kings	        West	34-48	-2.8
1455	1450	+0 MEM	Grizzlies	West	34-48	-2.7
1407	1452	+0 NO	Pelicans	West	35-47	-2.6
1278	1379	+0 PHI	76ers	        East	29-53	-4.8
1393	1410	+0 PHX	Suns	        West	31-51	-4.0
1333	1350	+0 LAL	Lakers	        West	25-57	-6.5
1343	1310	+0 BKN	Nets	        East	23-59	-7.5

Oct 25, 2016
ESPN.com
The 2016-17 season is here! Our ESPN Forecast panel makes its latest predictions on how every team will finish in the standings.
Eastern Conference Standings
TEAM	                   PROJECTED RECORD
1.    Cleveland Cavaliers  57-25
T-2.  Boston Celtics	   51-31
T-2.  Toronto Raptors	   51-31
4.    Detroit Pistons	   45-37
5.    Indiana Pacers	   44-38
T-6.  Atlanta Hawks	   43-39
T-6.  Charlotte Hornets	   43-39
8.    Washington Wizards   42-40
9.    Chicago Bulls	   40-42
10.   New York Knicks	   38-44
T-11. Miami Heat	   36-46
T-11. Milwaukee Bucks	   36-46
13.   Orlando Magic	   34-48
T-14. Brooklyn Nets	   20-62
T-14. Philadelphia 76ers   20-62

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks did under achieve but much of that was from top down dysfunction. Phil and Longstaff are gone but does that fix the issues the players had with coaching staff/management? NDour, Plumlee, Rose, Holiday, and Sasha are gone. Does that fix the rebelliousness on the roster? Jeff more than lost the team last year. Phil being gone should liberate him as a coach but some of his best players are coming back and don't like him.

I forgot, which players don't like the coach?

Gudris wrote:Melo is now packing bags to Houston

is that a wish or a fact?

Gudris wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Gudris wrote:Melo is now packing bags to Houston

is that a wish or a fact?

according to Isola http://www.ultimateknicks.com/outerlink.asp?id=130838120

why would you ever rely on anything Isola writes? Dude lies all the time.

martin wrote:

Gudris wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Gudris wrote:Melo is now packing bags to Houston

is that a wish or a fact?

according to Isola http://www.ultimateknicks.com/outerlink.asp?id=130838120

why would you ever rely on anything Isola writes? Dude lies all the time.

It's not a lie if it's just his (Isola)opinion, it only becomes a lie when people take his opinion and make it a fact.

Also, people criticize NY media when the report paints someone you like in a negative light, thast when their full of shht, but if you don't like someone or something, and the media rips them, then the media are darlings.