stanleybostitch wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Sure Mills has been here for much of the disastrous years. I think he did learn a lot from the Phil years and it's been a good learning experience. Along with the bad has been some good and Mills is looking to build on the good and clean out the bad! The youth on the roster is part of the good that came out of the Phil Years!

Can't have it both ways! Mills HIRED Perry! The current stance is logical and the new additions are adding fresh blood to the mix. Mills made clear his vision and it makes sense. Now we have to see what his new team can get done. There's a good base to build on which Phil and Mills Haters refuse to acknowledge!

well this sounds as if your willing to give mills a clean slate despite yrs of bad service..

But when it comes to melo, that slate can't be clean?

Smart people learn from their mistakes. It's what makes them smart. Mills has learned.

he's been making mistakes since he came here, and still hasn't learned a damn thing..

Like I said, rebuild starts with a new front office, how is giving a guy more control who was directly or indirectly responsible for the mess were in now and think things will change.

well we see how much of the triangle confusion is where much of the blame lies

I think Mills did well in hiring Perry. They're being patient with the Melo situation. The roster should be improved. The vision is clear. At some point you have to actually stop wallowing in the past. Current events are more important.

Have the Knicks learned the lessons of the past?

• Trade away first round picks for over-the-hill, broken-down vets Stockpile picks
• Starphuck at every opportunity Prioritize youth with upside
• Sign over-the-hill players to outrageous contracts Sign young players to great contracts
• Have no identity and no concept of team Have a well-articulated vision for how you want your club to play hard and as a team

The combo of these four is huge growth and tells me that yes, the Knicks (Mills) HAVE learned from past mistakes.

I'm mostly with you, but to be fair, it remains to be seen whether not part Hardaway's contract will be "great."

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Sure Mills has been here for much of the disastrous years. I think he did learn a lot from the Phil years and it's been a good learning experience. Along with the bad has been some good and Mills is looking to build on the good and clean out the bad! The youth on the roster is part of the good that came out of the Phil Years!

Can't have it both ways! Mills HIRED Perry! The current stance is logical and the new additions are adding fresh blood to the mix. Mills made clear his vision and it makes sense. Now we have to see what his new team can get done. There's a good base to build on which Phil and Mills Haters refuse to acknowledge!

well this sounds as if your willing to give mills a clean slate despite yrs of bad service..

But when it comes to melo, that slate can't be clean?

Seriously? How Can I argue with this level of thinking?

knicks1248 wrote:The realization is that mills trying to get rid of Melo is more personally then business. That bs his running about defense defense defense is a smoke screen to me when

1)Willy is by far the worst defensive big man on the team

2)kp is not a good defender, he tries to block every shot(resulting in wacking and hacking foul trouble every game) as oppose to disrupting a shot which is just as good(see camby) but he'll learn once a new coaching staff is in place.

3)THJ showed slight improvement on defense, but offense is his main stay, your not talking about defense 1st signing him

4)re-signing the 12th man on the roster as if he was the best defensive guard on the FA market

This type of thinking happened during Linsanity.

Here was an undrafted player, in his 2nd year, but basically a rookie since he got close to no playing time in his first year, in the biggest city in the world, on the biggest stage in the world, WITH THE ENTIRE WORLD WATCHING, and being young and driven and leading a team without a ton of talent to win after win. Acting like a true leader, galvanizing and inspiring his team mates and basically the ENTIRE WORLD. For a couple of weeks, the ENTIRE WORLD STOPPED AND WATCHED JEREMY LIN PLAY BASKETBALL.

Of course that was poison to Melo, hearing some unknown getting MVP chants and getting the attention he's always wanted for himself.

So what do some of the biggest Melo shills on this board do?

Compare Lin against the STANDARD OF AN ESTABLISHED NBA VETERAN, then cite any flaws to that players game as A STATIC PLACE IN TIME, FOREVER.

You are doing the same happy horse****. Comparing a bunch of very young players, still developing, against an established NBA veteran, who has established he doesn't care about team basketball and doesn't care about winning above selling his stupid hats and cologne or whatever else.

You what most Knicks fans take "personal"?

Anyone who puts on that jersey, on a team they LOVE and CHERISH ( well some of us at least), and seeing that player not playing and acting as it was anything other than a great honor and opportunity. Anyone who won't sacrifice and bleed it all on the court to win. To exemplify the values of grit, determination, hard work and leadership. New Yorkers don't back the f**k down from anyone. Ever. You think they want to embrace a hero ball selfish shotjacker who decides he's too good and too above playing basic NBA defense?

The "defenses" that Melo shills here put up are pathetic.

He was player of the month for a couple of months years ago!

He lead the team in assists for this part of this season!

He got voted Most Congenial by his teammates and uses the most effective tampons!

Gag.

Those guys have to DIG DEEP to find anything to justify a player who puts on that beloved Knicks jersey and just doesn't give a f**k.

And you want to talk about "personal"?

Just play the game the right way. Is it really that motherf**king hard to do? It's like some of you believe that fans are asking Melo to fly to some giant asteroid coming to destroy Earth, drill into it, then drop a nuke in it, before it can destroy all of mankind. I literally have to drag out a couple of decades old Bruce Willis movie to show how far and deep the logical fallacies go for the typical Melo ball lickers here.

Melo does happy horse****, by choice and inaction, to cause this beloved team to lose rather than win. Because he can't? No, because he won't and because he just doesn't care.

Yes, there are a group of people who would take that **** personally. They are called faithful and devoted Knicks fans.

I guess there are some people who would not take it personally. People who don't give a f**k if the Knicks lose instead of win to simply justify a player who refuses to play the game the right way. As if that was asking the player to move a mountain. Or drill into an asteroid. If you don't care if the Knicks lose instead of win, would anyone want to call you a faithful and devoted Knicks fan?

stanleybostitch wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:
Have the Knicks learned the lessons of the past?

• Trade away first round picks for over-the-hill, broken-down vets Stockpile picks
• Starphuck at every opportunity Prioritize youth with upside
• Sign over-the-hill players to outrageous contracts Sign young players to great contracts
• Have no identity and no concept of team Have a well-articulated vision for how you want your club to play hard and as a team

The combo of these four is huge growth and tells me that yes, the Knicks (Mills) HAVE learned from past mistakes.

I'm mostly with you, but to be fair, it remains to be seen whether not part Hardaway's contract will be "great."

Was thinking Willy on that point. Hardaway even if he performs its an OK contract, not a great one.

I like very much what Mill wrote. I like it because its a first. Its the first sign of transparency and its a message to our players regarding what is expected. Its a model worth building and as sound an approach as one can have.

Cartman718 wrote:Nice blog and all, but...
We drafted Hernangomez who is still learning defense (he's a willing physical defender and he's young)
We re-signed Timmy who was traded because of lack of defense (sure it has gotten slightly better but you can't tell me he is a ball stopper now) (100% fair and Timmy has to prove the signing. TBD)
We didn't re-sign Justin Holiday who was probably the cheapest 2-way player at the money he got from the Bulls (he's 28, Dotson replaces him with a younger player)
We drafted Kuz who is also still learning defense (Kuz was not drafted. He was a cheap 2 year Euro signing by Phil)
We drafted Dotson whose calling card is shooting (Dotson is an excellent defender, was in college and was in the summer as well)

and that's just yoots.

We signed Noah to a 4 year deal no record of Mills attempting to nix it. That was Phil. Mills was under him. Is this a realistic knock?
We signed Lee who is only barely passable on defense. Also Phil but Lee is a good defender, ball mover and hard working vet
We have Melo who is bad on defense. Knicks tried to move him no? He's got an NTC
We have Lance Thomas who is injury prone and sucks (also no more triangle).Lance is a good defensive player, but he's also a stop gap

Is this blog supposed to suddenly inspire these guys to play better defense? 3 of those vets are starters after Noah comes back.

Since Ewing the Knicks have not had any direction or plan. If they did it changed every 6 months. Now the Knicks not only have a plan but its in writing and its from the team pres.

It also lets the media hold Mills to his own word. Its a clear message from the top to bottom. Now they have to execute on it (hard part) but I appreciate and applaud this first step.

Cartman718 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Im not jumping on your post... just a little devils advocate but here's my .02 on your knocks

Cartman718 wrote:Nice blog and all, but...
We drafted Hernangomez who is still learning defense (he's a willing physical defender and he's young)
We re-signed Timmy who was traded because of lack of defense (sure it has gotten slightly better but you can't tell me he is a ball stopper now) (100% fair and Timmy has to prove the signing. TBD)
We didn't re-sign Justin Holiday who was probably the cheapest 2-way player at the money he got from the Bulls (he's 28, Dotson replaces him with a younger player)
We drafted Kuz who is also still learning defense (Kuz was not drafted. He was a cheap 2 year Euro signing by Phil)
We drafted Dotson whose calling card is shooting (Dotson is an excellent defender, was in college and was in the summer as well)

and that's just yoots.

We signed Noah to a 4 year deal no record of Mills attempting to nix it. That was Phil. Mills was under him. Is this a realistic knock?
We signed Lee who is only barely passable on defense. Also Phil but Lee is a good defender, ball mover and hard working vet
We have Melo who is bad on defense. Knicks tried to move him no? He's got an NTC
We have Lance Thomas who is injury prone and sucks (also no more triangle).Lance is a good defensive player, but he's also a stop gap

Is this blog supposed to suddenly inspire these guys to play better defense? 3 of those vets are starters after Noah comes back.

No the blog tells the fans the direction of the team moving forward. This offseason backs that up with only the Timmy signing being questionable. Knicks drafted for defensive guys for sure.

Since Ewing the Knicks have not had any direction or plan. If they did it changed every 6 months. Now the Knicks not only have a plan but its in writing and its from the team pres.

It also lets the media hold Mills to his own word. Its a clear message from the top to bottom. Now they have to execute on it (hard part) but I appreciate and applaud this first step.

Understood that some of these are under Phil, but it doesn't sound like he wants defense first because that's obviously not Timmy's strength. If that was his goal, then he should have signed an FA who is absolutely stellar on defense and inspires other players to play better D.

Who?

Cartman718 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Im not jumping on your post... just a little devils advocate but here's my .02 on your knocks

Cartman718 wrote:Nice blog and all, but...
We drafted Hernangomez who is still learning defense (he's a willing physical defender and he's young)
We re-signed Timmy who was traded because of lack of defense (sure it has gotten slightly better but you can't tell me he is a ball stopper now) (100% fair and Timmy has to prove the signing. TBD)
We didn't re-sign Justin Holiday who was probably the cheapest 2-way player at the money he got from the Bulls (he's 28, Dotson replaces him with a younger player)
We drafted Kuz who is also still learning defense (Kuz was not drafted. He was a cheap 2 year Euro signing by Phil)
We drafted Dotson whose calling card is shooting (Dotson is an excellent defender, was in college and was in the summer as well)

and that's just yoots.

We signed Noah to a 4 year deal no record of Mills attempting to nix it. That was Phil. Mills was under him. Is this a realistic knock?
We signed Lee who is only barely passable on defense. Also Phil but Lee is a good defender, ball mover and hard working vet
We have Melo who is bad on defense. Knicks tried to move him no? He's got an NTC
We have Lance Thomas who is injury prone and sucks (also no more triangle).Lance is a good defensive player, but he's also a stop gap

Is this blog supposed to suddenly inspire these guys to play better defense? 3 of those vets are starters after Noah comes back.

No the blog tells the fans the direction of the team moving forward. This offseason backs that up with only the Timmy signing being questionable. Knicks drafted for defensive guys for sure.

Since Ewing the Knicks have not had any direction or plan. If they did it changed every 6 months. Now the Knicks not only have a plan but its in writing and its from the team pres.

It also lets the media hold Mills to his own word. Its a clear message from the top to bottom. Now they have to execute on it (hard part) but I appreciate and applaud this first step.

Understood that some of these are under Phil, but it doesn't sound like he wants defense first because that's obviously not Timmy's strength. If that was his goal, then he should have signed an FA who is absolutely stellar on defense and inspires other players to play better D.

Who?

that's his job to figure out..?

Understood. In a forum fans regularly suggests specific trades, draft picks and free agent acquisitions, that answer means you can't answer the question you asked either.

Cartman718 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Im not jumping on your post... just a little devils advocate but here's my .02 on your knocks

Cartman718 wrote:Nice blog and all, but...
We drafted Hernangomez who is still learning defense (he's a willing physical defender and he's young)
We re-signed Timmy who was traded because of lack of defense (sure it has gotten slightly better but you can't tell me he is a ball stopper now) (100% fair and Timmy has to prove the signing. TBD)
We didn't re-sign Justin Holiday who was probably the cheapest 2-way player at the money he got from the Bulls (he's 28, Dotson replaces him with a younger player)
We drafted Kuz who is also still learning defense (Kuz was not drafted. He was a cheap 2 year Euro signing by Phil)
We drafted Dotson whose calling card is shooting (Dotson is an excellent defender, was in college and was in the summer as well)

and that's just yoots.

We signed Noah to a 4 year deal no record of Mills attempting to nix it. That was Phil. Mills was under him. Is this a realistic knock?
We signed Lee who is only barely passable on defense. Also Phil but Lee is a good defender, ball mover and hard working vet
We have Melo who is bad on defense. Knicks tried to move him no? He's got an NTC
We have Lance Thomas who is injury prone and sucks (also no more triangle).Lance is a good defensive player, but he's also a stop gap

Is this blog supposed to suddenly inspire these guys to play better defense? 3 of those vets are starters after Noah comes back.

No the blog tells the fans the direction of the team moving forward. This offseason backs that up with only the Timmy signing being questionable. Knicks drafted for defensive guys for sure.

Since Ewing the Knicks have not had any direction or plan. If they did it changed every 6 months. Now the Knicks not only have a plan but its in writing and its from the team pres.

It also lets the media hold Mills to his own word. Its a clear message from the top to bottom. Now they have to execute on it (hard part) but I appreciate and applaud this first step.

Understood that some of these are under Phil, but it doesn't sound like he wants defense first because that's obviously not Timmy's strength. If that was his goal, then he should have signed an FA who is absolutely stellar on defense and inspires other players to play better D.

Who?

that's his job to figure out..?

Understood. In a forum fans regularly suggests specific trades, draft picks and free agent acquisitions, that answer means you can't answer the question you asked either.

i am not required to. mills is.

You are not.

But you still can't.

Which means you don't know if that player even exists.

Cartman718 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Im not jumping on your post... just a little devils advocate but here's my .02 on your knocks

Cartman718 wrote:Nice blog and all, but...
We drafted Hernangomez who is still learning defense (he's a willing physical defender and he's young)
We re-signed Timmy who was traded because of lack of defense (sure it has gotten slightly better but you can't tell me he is a ball stopper now) (100% fair and Timmy has to prove the signing. TBD)
We didn't re-sign Justin Holiday who was probably the cheapest 2-way player at the money he got from the Bulls (he's 28, Dotson replaces him with a younger player)
We drafted Kuz who is also still learning defense (Kuz was not drafted. He was a cheap 2 year Euro signing by Phil)
We drafted Dotson whose calling card is shooting (Dotson is an excellent defender, was in college and was in the summer as well)

and that's just yoots.

We signed Noah to a 4 year deal no record of Mills attempting to nix it. That was Phil. Mills was under him. Is this a realistic knock?
We signed Lee who is only barely passable on defense. Also Phil but Lee is a good defender, ball mover and hard working vet
We have Melo who is bad on defense. Knicks tried to move him no? He's got an NTC
We have Lance Thomas who is injury prone and sucks (also no more triangle).Lance is a good defensive player, but he's also a stop gap

Is this blog supposed to suddenly inspire these guys to play better defense? 3 of those vets are starters after Noah comes back.

No the blog tells the fans the direction of the team moving forward. This offseason backs that up with only the Timmy signing being questionable. Knicks drafted for defensive guys for sure.

Since Ewing the Knicks have not had any direction or plan. If they did it changed every 6 months. Now the Knicks not only have a plan but its in writing and its from the team pres.

It also lets the media hold Mills to his own word. Its a clear message from the top to bottom. Now they have to execute on it (hard part) but I appreciate and applaud this first step.

Understood that some of these are under Phil, but it doesn't sound like he wants defense first because that's obviously not Timmy's strength. If that was his goal, then he should have signed an FA who is absolutely stellar on defense and inspires other players to play better D.

Who?

that's his job to figure out..?

Understood. In a forum fans regularly suggests specific trades, draft picks and free agent acquisitions, that answer means you can't answer the question you asked either.

i am not required to. mills is.

You are not.

But you still can't.

Which means you don't know if that player even exists.

if one doesn't exist, then perhaps refrain from signing, again...if D is his new motto.

That's a fair point, but "then he should have signed an FA who is absolutely stellar on defense and inspires other players to play better D" is an unfair criticism if that player doesn't actually exist, which is all I responded to.

Cartman718 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Im not jumping on your post... just a little devils advocate but here's my .02 on your knocks

Cartman718 wrote:Nice blog and all, but...
We drafted Hernangomez who is still learning defense (he's a willing physical defender and he's young)
We re-signed Timmy who was traded because of lack of defense (sure it has gotten slightly better but you can't tell me he is a ball stopper now) (100% fair and Timmy has to prove the signing. TBD)
We didn't re-sign Justin Holiday who was probably the cheapest 2-way player at the money he got from the Bulls (he's 28, Dotson replaces him with a younger player)
We drafted Kuz who is also still learning defense (Kuz was not drafted. He was a cheap 2 year Euro signing by Phil)
We drafted Dotson whose calling card is shooting (Dotson is an excellent defender, was in college and was in the summer as well)

and that's just yoots.

We signed Noah to a 4 year deal no record of Mills attempting to nix it. That was Phil. Mills was under him. Is this a realistic knock?
We signed Lee who is only barely passable on defense. Also Phil but Lee is a good defender, ball mover and hard working vet
We have Melo who is bad on defense. Knicks tried to move him no? He's got an NTC
We have Lance Thomas who is injury prone and sucks (also no more triangle).Lance is a good defensive player, but he's also a stop gap

Is this blog supposed to suddenly inspire these guys to play better defense? 3 of those vets are starters after Noah comes back.

No the blog tells the fans the direction of the team moving forward. This offseason backs that up with only the Timmy signing being questionable. Knicks drafted for defensive guys for sure.

Since Ewing the Knicks have not had any direction or plan. If they did it changed every 6 months. Now the Knicks not only have a plan but its in writing and its from the team pres.

It also lets the media hold Mills to his own word. Its a clear message from the top to bottom. Now they have to execute on it (hard part) but I appreciate and applaud this first step.

Understood that some of these are under Phil, but it doesn't sound like he wants defense first because that's obviously not Timmy's strength. If that was his goal, then he should have signed an FA who is absolutely stellar on defense and inspires other players to play better D.

Who?

that's his job to figure out..?

Understood. In a forum fans regularly suggests specific trades, draft picks and free agent acquisitions, that answer means you can't answer the question you asked either.

i am not required to. mills is.

You are not.

But you still can't.

Which means you don't know if that player even exists.

if one doesn't exist, then perhaps refrain from signing, again...if D is his new motto.

That's a fair point, but "then he should have signed an FA who is absolutely stellar on defense and inspires other players to play better D" is an unfair criticism if that player doesn't actually exist, which is all I responded to.

sure, a little lazy on my part to not state what i stated in the last post, but thought the common sense half of the earlier statement was implied. anyway, i have explicitly stated now.

Hardaway indeed had a reputation for being bad defensively his first two seasons. But he now has a reputation for improving on that end. I'm by no means endorsing the signing as successful, but I think suggesting it represents hypocrisy is a bit hyperbolic.

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The realization is that mills trying to get rid of Melo is more personally then business. That bs his running about defense defense defense is a smoke screen to me when

1)Willy is by far the worst defensive big man on the team

2)kp is not a good defender, he tries to block every shot(resulting in wacking and hacking foul trouble every game) as oppose to disrupting a shot which is just as good(see camby) but he'll learn once a new coaching staff is in place.

3)THJ showed slight improvement on defense, but offense is his main stay, your not talking about defense 1st signing him

4)re-signing the 12th man on the roster as if he was the best defensive guard on the FA market

This type of thinking happened during Linsanity.

Here was an undrafted player, in his 2nd year, but basically a rookie since he got close to no playing time in his first year, in the biggest city in the world, on the biggest stage in the world, WITH THE ENTIRE WORLD WATCHING, and being young and driven and leading a team without a ton of talent to win after win. Acting like a true leader, galvanizing and inspiring his team mates and basically the ENTIRE WORLD. For a couple of weeks, the ENTIRE WORLD STOPPED AND WATCHED JEREMY LIN PLAY BASKETBALL.

Of course that was poison to Melo, hearing some unknown getting MVP chants and getting the attention he's always wanted for himself.

So what do some of the biggest Melo shills on this board do?

Compare Lin against the STANDARD OF AN ESTABLISHED NBA VETERAN, then cite any flaws to that players game as A STATIC PLACE IN TIME, FOREVER.

You are doing the same happy horse****. Comparing a bunch of very young players, still developing, against an established NBA veteran, who has established he doesn't care about team basketball and doesn't care about winning above selling his stupid hats and cologne or whatever else.

You what most Knicks fans take "personal"?

Anyone who puts on that jersey, on a team they LOVE and CHERISH ( well some of us at least), and seeing that player not playing and acting as it was anything other than a great honor and opportunity. Anyone who won't sacrifice and bleed it all on the court to win. To exemplify the values of grit, determination, hard work and leadership. New Yorkers don't back the f**k down from anyone. Ever. You think they want to embrace a hero ball selfish shotjacker who decides he's too good and too above playing basic NBA defense?

The "defenses" that Melo shills here put up are pathetic.

He was player of the month for a couple of months years ago!

He lead the team in assists for this part of this season!

He got voted Most Congenial by his teammates and uses the most effective tampons!

Gag.

Those guys have to DIG DEEP to find anything to justify a player who puts on that beloved Knicks jersey and just doesn't give a f**k.

And you want to talk about "personal"?

Just play the game the right way. Is it really that motherf**king hard to do? It's like some of you believe that fans are asking Melo to fly to some giant asteroid coming to destroy Earth, drill into it, then drop a nuke in it, before it can destroy all of mankind. I literally have to drag out a couple of decades old Bruce Willis movie to show how far and deep the logical fallacies go for the typical Melo ball lickers here.

Melo does happy horse****, by choice and inaction, to cause this beloved team to lose rather than win. Because he can't? No, because he won't and because he just doesn't care.

Yes, there are a group of people who would take that **** personally. They are called faithful and devoted Knicks fans.

I guess there are some people who would not take it personally. People who don't give a f**k if the Knicks lose instead of win to simply justify a player who refuses to play the game the right way. As if that was asking the player to move a mountain. Or drill into an asteroid. If you don't care if the Knicks lose instead of win, would anyone want to call you a faithful and devoted Knicks fan?

You keep pointing your finger at melo like the rest of some of these naive fools, the dude never had anyone on the knicks avg 20 points, and hasn't played with a single clutch player...you want to know why

During an appearance on The Bill Simmons Podcast, Durant explained why it is that free agents often steer clear of the Knicks.

“Everything starts at the top. You got bad leadership at the top, it’s just going to trickle down to everybody else. So once you get the bad leader out, then…

It’s so much separation between your front office and your players…When a GM wants to make a decision, he’s gotta to talk to the owner and he’s nowhere to be found and he don’t care, then you kind of stuck and that causes tension.”

Put you buddy mills in charge..birds of a feather do what?

When the rest of the world talks about the knicks, it's starts and end with the front office, thats why stars want to play with melo as long as it's not with this dysfunctional franchise.

Mills won't even shut down the dysfunction by putting the melo trade to bed. So everybody can continue to wonder is he going or his he staying, players, coaching staff included.

That's how you want to go into a training camp, that's the drama that gets in the way of progress...Just a stupid front office